Vardy's Punishment

[Viva]

So you're saying other Asians should be ashamed to be associated with Japs?

Racist.

You're a bit simple aren't you? Would you like to be called a yank because we look similar to Americans?

If you don't realise the manner and aggression in which Vardy used the term Jap then as I said earlier, definitely simple.

[Guest MattP]

Blimey Col I agree with you 100% for once.

[Nick]

Blimey Col I agree with you 100% for once.

And me. Surely it's not us who have changed?

[ARTY_FOX]

So, just another take on this, from a Japanese source...English.stackexchange.com

.My parents are Japanese, I was born in Japan, and I'm a Japanese-English translator living in Canada.

Of the people I know, second and third-generation Japanese-Canadians seem to take the most offense. Part of it may be due to the lingering anger of having been cast aside (and in many cases shunned and mistreated) by the rest of Canada during World War II.

Meanwhile, even among the well-read, the Japanese living in Japan seem to have no trouble using the word "jap" both in communication amongst themselves and in communication with English-speakers. After all, the Japanese often find it stylish and convenient both to write in English and to abbreviate liberally. If someone in Japan does take offense to it, it's often only because they'd been instructed to.

So, to (kind of) answer your question, considering many of us don't care as much anymore, I think the offensive use of the term "jap" is probably on its way out, being replaced by -- or returned to -- its benign use as a natural and linguistically sound abbreviation. Personally, I welcome this, and wish it to happen sooner rather than later. In fact, I use the nickname japinthebox frequently online, and no one seems upset by it -- at least, not enough to say so.

"Jap" was probably already in use before the war without any racial overtones. I only find it offensive when it's said to emphasize a remark that already suggests racism, and I argue that people who see nothing wrong with the word nonetheless become upset simply because they recognize that some other people still do. It's a strange self-perpetuating sentiment.

"Jap" differs from "nip" in that the latter isn't even English, and so one must have gone out of their way to use it with vile, whereas "Jap" is an abbreviation of "Japanese" with legitimate usage outside of the war and probably even before it. We say "the Afghans" quite casually now, and it's used just as casually in the war in Afghanistan, but just because of the way the war is going there, there may come a time when people insist that we stop using the word "Afghans" and say "Afghanis" instead -- which given our current perspective, we know would be just a little bit absurd.

Afghani would be wrong as it's insulting to the Afghans as it's what they call their currency.

[FireFox]

And me. Surely it's not us who have changed?

Ever since Cambiasso announced he would not be re-signing, I find myself more and more agreeing with what Col says.

[atomicfox]

God save us from sanctimonious, faux moral outrage,especially from the mirror,who else remembers thier front pages from Euro 96?

[Captain...]

You're a bit simple aren't you? Would you like to be called a yank because we look similar to Americans?

If you don't realise the manner and aggression in which Vardy used the term Jap then as I said earlier, definitely simple.

He was pissed off with the fella of course he is going to sound aggressive, if he was saying, "oi you" or "yo chap" it is going to sound aggressive as he was being aggressive. If he had used it in a non aggressive manner would it have been racist?

[AKCJ]

Wrong? What's "wrong" in the world is when a family doesn't get to see their mother again because some idealogical wacko has cut her head off. Why don't people carp off about things that really matter, not some unfortunate remark or some irritant bugging a bloke at the casino.

 

 

Have a word Thracian, christ.

[David Lowe]

Couldn't disagree more with this post.

Who cares how much fame or fortune he thinks he should have, or has. Where he came from..non-league or wherever.

Why does that matter?

Watch the video and you tell me if he doesn't come across like an utter tit. Offensive, loud, and belligerent.

That's not necessary in any walk of life, however good you are at something or not. It demonstrates a lack of class and self-control. And I'm glad he's been pulled up for it and apologised.

Completely agree. Also the comment 'he may be a nob, but he's our nob' is ridiculous. The Thailand 3 were also 'our nobs' but it is irrelevant that they are 'ours', it is all about what they have done.

I don't know if the term Vardy used is racist but the actions of the club suggest that they think it is. Therefore he should have been treated the same as the others. Yes they were on a club tour but I feel that Vardy is representing LCFC and England at all times. Also, which should know better...3 youngsters or a more experienced England player.

I know most on here disagree but I feel that this decision will put LCFC in a poor light. I wish it had never happened, as a City fan I want to keep our best players at the club  but you have to look at it with your head rather than your heart.

[Viva]

He was pissed off with the fella of course he is going to sound aggressive, if he was saying, "oi you" or "yo chap" it is going to sound aggressive as he was being aggressive. If he had used it in a non aggressive manner would it have been racist?

Yes

[I blame Wellens]

Couldn't disagree more with this post.

Who cares how much fame or fortune he thinks he should have, or has. Where he came from..non-league or wherever.

Why does that matter?

Watch the video and you tell me if he doesn't come across like an utter tit. Offensive, loud, and belligerent.

That's not necessary in any walk of life, however good you are at something or not. It demonstrates a lack of class and self-control. And I'm glad he's been pulled up for it and apologised.

Could not agree more. I am very old fashion and still think the lads representing the blue shirt should be role models. Ask the kids in the family stand to name their favourite player I am sure the majority would say Vardy. I genuinely believe he let them down by his actions. But essentially he made a mistake and I do think his punishment is sufficient.

[Guest MattP]

God save us from sanctimonious, faux moral outrage,especially from the mirror,who else remembers thier front pages from Euro 96?

 

Achtung! Surrender

[Guest bennytwohats]

Completely agree. Also the comment 'he may be a nob, but he's our nob' is ridiculous. The Thailand 3 were also 'our nobs' but it is irrelevant that they are 'ours', it is all about what they have done.

I don't know if the term Vardy used is racist but the actions of the club suggest that they think it is. Therefore he should have been treated the same as the others. Yes they were on a club tour but I feel that Vardy is representing LCFC and England at all times. Also, which should know better...3 youngsters or a more experienced England player.

I know most on here disagree but I feel that this decision will put LCFC in a poor light. I wish it had never happened, as a City fan I want to keep our best players at the club  but you have to look at it with your head rather than your heart.

 

 

Couldn't agree with this any more.

 

I also think you only have to look at the level of ignorance in this thread and number of people that still think he did nothing wrong to see precisely why the course of action wasn't strong enough. Essentially, we bottled it.

[Guest Col city fan]

And me. Surely it's not us who have changed?

Yes you have....?

I find myself nodding at many of your posts.

[stulcfc]

Couldn't agree with this any more.

I also think you only have to look at the level of ignorance in this thread and number of people that still think he did nothing wrong to see precisely why the course of action wasn't strong enough. Essentially, we bottled it.

yeah they should have hung him for saying jap . Bring back capital punishment

[Always Next Year]

Why oh why oh why is this thread still open. The club have spoken the player has spoken even the manager.

Let's put it to bed and move on for fcuk sake.

[Babylon]

You're a bit simple aren't you? Would you like to be called a yank because we look similar to Americans?

 

Lets be honest, nobody would give a shit would they. You wouldn't be offended in the slightest, if you were then you'd have serious problems of your own. You'd just think the person was a bit of an idiot.

 

[Babylon]

Completely agree. Also the comment 'he may be a nob, but he's our nob' is ridiculous. The Thailand 3 were also 'our nobs' but it is irrelevant that they are 'ours', it is all about what they have done.

I don't know if the term Vardy used is racist but the actions of the club suggest that they think it is. Therefore he should have been treated the same as the others. Yes they were on a club tour but I feel that Vardy is representing LCFC and England at all times. Also, which should know better...3 youngsters or a more experienced England player.

I know most on here disagree but I feel that this decision will put LCFC in a poor light. I wish it had never happened, as a City fan I want to keep our best players at the club  but you have to look at it with your head rather than your heart.

Two of those sacked were found not guilty of racism and still sacked. Nobody can sit here and say they were sacked purely for racism, because they clearly were not. There were multiple indiscretions committed. Some offensive to the wider world, some particularly to the owners of the business they work for. Sex tape, racism, misogyny, club trip, owners homeland (we have lots of thai sponsors), owners hotel. 

 

The two events are simply not comparable, they are two distinctly different things. You're just trying to compare one facet of the thailand incident that matches up to this one. I don't think there is any question that Hoppers words were racist. But I think there are certainly question marks or at least a debate to be had about Vardy's.

[Lambert09]

Did anyone else see the newspaper claiming the Asian fellow from the casino was Okazaki ? Surely thats a pretty racist assuption by itself... fine the media slaggs

[Captain...]

Completely agree. Also the comment 'he may be a nob, but he's our nob' is ridiculous. The Thailand 3 were also 'our nobs' but it is irrelevant that they are 'ours', it is all about what they have done.

I don't know if the term Vardy used is racist but the actions of the club suggest that they think it is. Therefore he should have been treated the same as the others. Yes they were on a club tour but I feel that Vardy is representing LCFC and England at all times. Also, which should know better...3 youngsters or a more experienced England player.

I know most on here disagree but I feel that this decision will put LCFC in a poor light. I wish it had never happened, as a City fan I want to keep our best players at the club  but you have to look at it with your head rather than your heart.

 

Can you not see the difference between calling a prostitute that you are forcing to lick your anus a slit eye in a manner that is to humiliate her, a term that there is no doubt as to whether it is racist or not, whilst representing the club on a goodwill tour in a country where everyone would be offended by the term. It was deliberate it was malicious and it was disgusting and degrading on so many levels. There is no doubt over the use of that word.

 

Or an angry outburst which used a term which is questionably racist, see all the questions about is it actually racist, used in a way to identify the man he wanted to go away. It was unfortunate, and it was stupid but it is more likely a lack of understanding than any attempt to be malicious, and that is the difference. Alan Hansen used the word coloured on MOTD a few years ago, it was a similar thing where he thought it was ok to refer to coloured players meaning non-white. There was no malice behind it, just a lack of understanding. 

 

If Vardy had done what Hopper had, then I would want him out the club, there are no double standards here, just 2 very different situations.

[Captain...]

Did anyone else see the newspaper claiming the Asian fellow from the casino was Okazaki ? Surely thats a pretty racist assuption by itself... fine the media slags

 

The media hypocrisy has been well noted, the number of Sun headlines using the word Jap would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic that they are trying to ruin someone's career for using a word they use all the time.

 

It was a mistake, he has apologised, he has been fined, we move on. No criminal proceedings appear to be being brought, unlike John Terry, so hopefully this is the end of it.

[Oxfordfox83]

Completely agree. Also the comment 'he may be a nob, but he's our nob' is ridiculous. The Thailand 3 were also 'our nobs' but it is irrelevant that they are 'ours', it is all about what they have done.

I don't know if the term Vardy used is racist but the actions of the club suggest that they think it is. Therefore he should have been treated the same as the others. Yes they were on a club tour but I feel that Vardy is representing LCFC and England at all times. Also, which should know better...3 youngsters or a more experienced England player.

I know most on here disagree but I feel that this decision will put LCFC in a poor light. I wish it had never happened, as a City fan I want to keep our best players at the club but you have to look at it with your head rather than your heart.

I agree with your philosophy, but not your conclusion. He was aggressive, which is undoubted. He obviously became riled about something we couldn't see, and it looks like a fairly major overreaction. But we don't really know. If the guy he had beef with was actually intimidated or offended he could quite easily have 'walked on', but he didn't. The aggression certainly wasn't pretty, but wasn't illegal.

Vardy used a word that may or may not be racist, but he certainly would have been aggressive towards any colour or creed who was standing there at the time. He didn't pick the fight because the guy was Japanese, but because he was (possibly) looking at his cards, which is a reasonable thing to be annoyed about in a casino. So what he has done is use dated/racist/borderline language, possibly unknowingly. The Japanese are not a repressed people, nor a poor people, nor the subject of vitriol in the UK, so it's plausible that the word was used innocently enough. It's obviously better to err on the safe side, and hopefully this sensitivity course, combined with the fine, will help him to achieve that. However, it's not betraying an underlying racist motive, and not pursuing a racist agenda, which it's perfectly possible to do without using controversial language.

Incidentally, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Sun paid a Japanese man to go and be a **** to Vardy to see what rise they could get. He'll learn...

tl;dr May have used a bad word, but there was no racism behind his aggression. Massive storm in tiny cup.

[David Lowe]

Can you not see the difference between calling a prostitute that you are forcing to lick your anus a slit eye in a manner that is to humiliate her, a term that there is no doubt as to whether it is racist or not, whilst representing the club on a goodwill tour in a country where everyone would be offended by the term. It was deliberate it was malicious and it was disgusting and degrading on so many levels. There is no doubt over the use of that word.

 

Or an angry outburst which used a term which is questionably racist, see all the questions about is it actually racist, used in a way to identify the man he wanted to go away. It was unfortunate, and it was stupid but it is more likely a lack of understanding than any attempt to be malicious, and that is the difference. Alan Hansen used the word coloured on MOTD a few years ago, it was a similar thing where he thought it was ok to refer to coloured players meaning non-white. There was no malice behind it, just a lack of understanding. 

 

If Vardy had done what Hopper had, then I would want him out the club, there are no double standards here, just 2 very different situations.

 

 

I agree with your philosophy, but not your conclusion. He was aggressive, which is undoubted. He obviously became riled about something we couldn't see, and it looks like a fairly major overreaction. But we don't really know. If the guy he had beef with was actually intimidated or offended he could quite easily have 'walked on', but he didn't. The aggression certainly wasn't pretty, but wasn't illegal.

Vardy used a word that may or may not be racist, but he certainly would have been aggressive towards any colour or creed who was standing there at the time. He didn't pick the fight because the guy was Japanese, but because he was (possibly) looking at his cards, which is a reasonable thing to be annoyed about in a casino. So what he has done is use dated/racist/borderline language, possibly unknowingly. The Japanese are not a repressed people, nor a poor people, nor the subject of vitriol in the UK, so it's plausible that the word was used innocently enough. It's obviously better to err on the safe side, and hopefully this sensitivity course, combined with the fine, will help him to achieve that. However, it's not betraying an underlying racist motive, and not pursuing a racist agenda, which it's perfectly possible to do without using controversial language.

Incidentally, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Sun paid a Japanese man to go and be a **** to Vardy to see what rise they could get. He'll learn...

tl;dr May have used a bad word, but there was no racism behind his aggression. Massive storm in tiny cup.

As I said, it is questionably racist to me also but the club have put him on a 'diversity awareness course'. This is surely to do with racism not just sorting temper problems.

[Oxfordfox83]

Can you not see the difference between calling a prostitute that you are forcing to lick your anus a slit eye in a manner that is to humiliate her, a term that there is no doubt as to whether it is racist or not, whilst representing the club on a goodwill tour in a country where everyone would be offended by the term. It was deliberate it was malicious and it was disgusting and degrading on so many levels. There is no doubt over the use of that word.

Or an angry outburst which used a term which is questionably racist, see all the questions about is it actually racist, used in a way to identify the man he wanted to go away. It was unfortunate, and it was stupid but it is more likely a lack of understanding than any attempt to be malicious, and that is the difference. Alan Hansen used the word coloured on MOTD a few years ago, it was a similar thing where he thought it was ok to refer to coloured players meaning non-white. There was no malice behind it, just a lack of understanding.

If Vardy had done what Hopper had, then I would want him out the club, there are no double standards here, just 2 very different situations.

All your posts in this thread are bang on.

Slightly off-topic, I'd still have wanted the three sacked if it had been with three very poor girls from Britain. The racism was an unpleasant seasoning on some horrible words and actions belying nasty misogynistic beliefs and treatment of those they could afford to buy and sell ("You're a real 1 out of 10 aren't you?"). There was much much more to their sacking than the racism.

[Oxfordfox83]

As I said, it is questionably racist to me also but the club have put him on a 'diversity awareness course'. This is surely to do with racism not just sorting temper problems.

Well, two things:

One, the inflammatory way it's been reported means that the club have to be seen to react, regardless of their conclusions, so I don't think you can infer that they believe he's a racist.

Two, diversity awareness isn't going to alter a fundamentally racist standpoint. It's exactly the sort of course you'd send someone on who, racist or not, seems unaware of the impact of certain terms they use. "Jamie, we know you didn't mean anything by it, but here's a list of words it's better not to use while you're famous enough to be crucified for it..."