theessexfox Posted 18 February 2016 Posted 18 February 2016 Jury intimidation by those three jurors. Wouldn't be the first time it has happened and I'm reasonably sure it happened in this case. It's possible that he did do it, but there's so much reasonable doubt in that case a jury without an agenda should have found him not guilty. Yeah I saw the intimidation line but you'd still back 1 of the 7 to hold firm, surely? Forgive my lack of knowledge but if 11 say guilty and 1 says not guilty then is that it, or to all 12 have to agree one way or the other?
Benguin Posted 18 February 2016 Posted 18 February 2016 Just been binging this all night, on final episode. How on earth could Brendan be sent down, kid just wants to watch wrestle mania bless him and I don't know about the book kiss the girls but I watched the film a few years back and remember a girl tied to the bed.
leicsmac Posted 18 February 2016 Posted 18 February 2016 Yeah I saw the intimidation line but you'd still back 1 of the 7 to hold firm, surely? Forgive my lack of knowledge but if 11 say guilty and 1 says not guilty then is that it, or to all 12 have to agree one way or the other? Yeah, if one holds out then it's a hung jury, a mistrial and has to be done all over again. Majority verdicts aren't allowed in US murder cases. It just takes one to hang the jury, as they say. You would think that one of them would hold firm, but who knows what was said during deliberations?
Vardinhio Posted 18 February 2016 Posted 18 February 2016 Because if he didn't then the cops either know exactly who did it or did it themselves. If the cops planted the bones they had to know whose bones they were as identifying wouldn't have been possible in the timeframe and I doubt if they wanted to frame Steven they'd take a gamble that the bones they found were Theresa's. This leads me to the choice that either Steven did it, the cops did it, the cops knew who did it or Steven was incredibly unlucky and a killer chose Stevens property to do it. The only two of those options that make any sense to me is Steven did it or the cops did it. Based on the fact that Steven has wired traits and tortured a cat in his past makes me believe he did it rather than the cops. I've inly watched 4 episodes so far so my opinion may change. I don't think it was done by Steven in the manner portrayed though and there is certainly something odd about the cops involvement. From my perspective the following just doesn't stack up: The key found on the 7th search in Avery's Trailer This is found by Lenk. Coincidental that Lenk was the very officer facing legal action from Avery in relation to his wrongful 18 year sentence. When the police search properties following murders they don't miss items like keys behind a chest of drawers, it had to have been planted. Also, the key is the spare key and has no house keys attached. We know from recent photographs that Teresa had a big set of keys likely also with her house keys on. Why would she just have the spare with her? I believe the key has at some point been handed to the police from family/friends. No blood in garage or bedroom Impossible to clean up the bedroom and the garage after such violent acts, even a forensic expert would struggle. The bullet found 4 months later in the garage This doesn't add much.It has Teresa's DNA but if we believe the blood in the RAV4 was planted if wouldn't be a stretch to believe this was too. Irrespective the forenic expert performed lousy tests on it and contaminated the experiment. She was testing multiple items from the case, can we be sure that Teresa's DNA was not also accidentally introduced? The bones were moved We know that due to the multiple bone sites bones were moved. Having studied the case notes (freely available on the net) you can also see that the defence call an expert to state that such damage to the bones could not have been caused in an open fire as behind Avery's garage. Therefore the likely burn site is the burn barrel on the Janda property or at the quarry. My theroy...... Taking all the above in to account. I believe Bobby Dassey commited the murder with his step father Scott Taydch aware and involved in the body disposal. He is at the Avery property when he sees Teresa on site taking photos of the van. He would likely be aware of Teresa's visit as Barb Janda was his mum and she actually owned the vehicle being sold, Stephen merely selling it for her. He puts himself at the scene, leaving to go hunting so presumably with a weapon. We know at least one of the Dassey boys owns a 22 calibre rifle and from a police report in 2006 it can be seen that Scott Tadych is trying to sell one of the Dassey boys 22 calibre rifles. His only alibi is Scott Taydch who he says he passes by in the highway. Scott also says he was going hunting. Bobby makes a key point of saying that Scott could confirm exactly what time he had seen him which would be an odd comment to make unless you thought you may need an alibi. I think Bobby approaches Teresa, raping her and shooting her. He bundles her body in to the Rav 4 and then takes her body to the quarry and burns her body in a fire. He returns to the Janda property to collect a burn barrel and takes this on a golf trolley up to the quarry (A cadevour dog identifies blood traces on the golf trolley), collecting the majority of the cremains in the barrel before scattering the barrel contents in Avery's rear yard. If the body disposal was done post 3rd Stephen Avery was out of town with his family so it would have been the perfect opportunity to move the bones and also hide the Toyota back on the property. Barb Janda says that Bobby had a shower when he returned from hunting. It is also notable that according to case notes Bobby had scratch marks on his back shortly after the inccident which he said were from a puppy. An analyst said this scratching was less than a week old. Statements were taken from Scott Tadych's co-workers who said Tadych was a complete mess the day Avery was arrested and had recently spoken about how one of the Dassey boys' bloody clothing had got mixed up with his washing. I believe the blood in the Rav 4, the bullet and the key were planted by the police. They are all only found post Brendan Dassey's false confession, planted to corroborate his account. The hardest thing I'm coming to terms with is how the police obtained a spare key to the vehicle. Could it have been provided by the family who were in turn told to keep stum to ensure Avvery went down? Looking at the DNA reports a blood swab was found at the quarry that did not belong to Stephen Avery or Theresa. It belonged to a male but gives no further information. Could be Bobby Dassey as he was not directly compared.
Guest ttfn Posted 18 February 2016 Posted 18 February 2016 People talking about "key evidence" being left out are missing the point. It's not particularly important whether he did it or not. It's pretty obvious that he (Avery) didn't get a fair trial given the continuing involvement of the Manitowoc police and that enough should have been grounds to acquit. Even had the obvious conflict of interest not existed, the fact that they found none of her blood or DNA at either of the proposed murder sites (the bed - the basis on which Dassey's murder conviction was based, and the garage - on which Avery's murder conviction was based) despite the fact that she was (in Kratz' words) "slayed" should be more than enough to cast reasonable doubt on the prosecution's case.
theessexfox Posted 18 February 2016 Posted 18 February 2016 People talking about "key evidence" being left out are missing the point. It's not particularly important whether he did it or not. It's pretty obvious that he (Avery) didn't get a fair trial given the continuing involvement of the Manitowoc police and that enough should have been grounds to acquit. Even had the obvious conflict of interest not existed, the fact that they found none of her blood or DNA at either of the proposed murder sites (the bed - the basis on which Dassey's murder conviction was based, and the garage - on which Avery's murder conviction was based) despite the fact that she was (in Kratz' words) "slayed" should be more than enough to cast reasonable doubt on the prosecution's case. That's the important thing regarding the trial but if there's a possibility that a man was framed for murder by the police, that's also gotta be important to discuss.
Buzzell Posted 19 February 2016 Posted 19 February 2016 I've just finished watching this and me and my missis both thought he wasn't guilty. There's just too many cracks in the Prosecutions side. The fact there's no blood found in the garage and bedroom, the key having only Avery's DNA on it with also the fact it appeared after being searched 8 times along with the bullet casings in the garage. Also the fact that Avery's blood was tampered with in the evidence box. That's just a few things. You could go on all day about it. At first I thought it was his ex boyfriend but now I'm suspiciously thinking it could of been his brother. Guess nobody will know now. Great watch but there was so many times I wanted to punch that Ken Kratz. He seemed a right cvnt from the beginning.
Filbert_Ross Posted 19 February 2016 Posted 19 February 2016 Ain't it. That horrible feminine voice he has and the smarmy way he is.
Voll Blau Posted 20 February 2016 Posted 20 February 2016 What shocked me most was the amount of speculation the Yank media are allowed to get away with during active proceedings though. Vox popping members of the public on whether they think he's guilty before it's even got to trial. Press conferences with prosecution/defence after each day during the trial to allow them to get anything out there they neglected to mention in court. WTF?!?! If that doesn't prejudice jurors I don't know what will. Swear to God half the journos reporting the case would've been jailed for contempt of court and the trial collapsed if that happened over here.
CollinsLCFC Posted 20 February 2016 Posted 20 February 2016 From my perspective the following just doesn't stack up: The key found on the 7th search in Avery's Trailer This is found by Lenk. Coincidental that Lenk was the very officer facing legal action from Avery in relation to his wrongful 18 year sentence. When the police search properties following murders they don't miss items like keys behind a chest of drawers, it had to have been planted. Also, the key is the spare key and has no house keys attached. We know from recent photographs that Teresa had a big set of keys likely also with her house keys on. Why would she just have the spare with her? I believe the key has at some point been handed to the police from family/friends. No blood in garage or bedroom Impossible to clean up the bedroom and the garage after such violent acts, even a forensic expert would struggle. The bullet found 4 months later in the garage This doesn't add much.It has Teresa's DNA but if we believe the blood in the RAV4 was planted if wouldn't be a stretch to believe this was too. Irrespective the forenic expert performed lousy tests on it and contaminated the experiment. She was testing multiple items from the case, can we be sure that Teresa's DNA was not also accidentally introduced? The bones were moved We know that due to the multiple bone sites bones were moved. Having studied the case notes (freely available on the net) you can also see that the defence call an expert to state that such damage to the bones could not have been caused in an open fire as behind Avery's garage. Therefore the likely burn site is the burn barrel on the Janda property or at the quarry. My theroy...... Taking all the above in to account. I believe Bobby Dassey commited the murder with his step father Scott Taydch aware and involved in the body disposal. He is at the Avery property when he sees Teresa on site taking photos of the van. He would likely be aware of Teresa's visit as Barb Janda was his mum and she actually owned the vehicle being sold, Stephen merely selling it for her. He puts himself at the scene, leaving to go hunting so presumably with a weapon. We know at least one of the Dassey boys owns a 22 calibre rifle and from a police report in 2006 it can be seen that Scott Tadych is trying to sell one of the Dassey boys 22 calibre rifles. His only alibi is Scott Taydch who he says he passes by in the highway. Scott also says he was going hunting. Bobby makes a key point of saying that Scott could confirm exactly what time he had seen him which would be an odd comment to make unless you thought you may need an alibi. I think Bobby approaches Teresa, raping her and shooting her. He bundles her body in to the Rav 4 and then takes her body to the quarry and burns her body in a fire. He returns to the Janda property to collect a burn barrel and takes this on a golf trolley up to the quarry (A cadevour dog identifies blood traces on the golf trolley), collecting the majority of the cremains in the barrel before scattering the barrel contents in Avery's rear yard. If the body disposal was done post 3rd Stephen Avery was out of town with his family so it would have been the perfect opportunity to move the bones and also hide the Toyota back on the property. Barb Janda says that Bobby had a shower when he returned from hunting. It is also notable that according to case notes Bobby had scratch marks on his back shortly after the inccident which he said were from a puppy. An analyst said this scratching was less than a week old. Statements were taken from Scott Tadych's co-workers who said Tadych was a complete mess the day Avery was arrested and had recently spoken about how one of the Dassey boys' bloody clothing had got mixed up with his washing. I believe the blood in the Rav 4, the bullet and the key were planted by the police. They are all only found post Brendan Dassey's false confession, planted to corroborate his account. The hardest thing I'm coming to terms with is how the police obtained a spare key to the vehicle. Could it have been provided by the family who were in turn told to keep stum to ensure Avvery went down? Looking at the DNA reports a blood swab was found at the quarry that did not belong to Stephen Avery or Theresa. It belonged to a male but gives no further information. Could be Bobby Dassey as he was not directly compared. Good theory. Where do you think Teresa was raped/killed though?
RobHawk Posted 22 February 2016 Posted 22 February 2016 Good theory. Where do you think Teresa was raped/killed though? I think that's a question that hasn't been answered in the Steven Avery case to be honest since no blood or DNA were found.For the record, from the to show I'd say he's innocent. Even if there was more telling evidence against him there were so many question marks he should never have gone down anyway. The conflict of interest alone should have been enough to throw the whole case out, I don't know how they got away with it!
Vardinhio Posted 23 February 2016 Posted 23 February 2016 Good theory. Where do you think Teresa was raped/killed though? Very difficult to know. I think she's possibly stopped from leaving the site by Bobby Dassey. He surely wouldn't have been stupid enough to shoot her on site but he could have easily struck her to the head, bundled her in to the Rav 4 and then driven her up to the quarry. It is also strange how Bobby Dassey makes a point of saying that he saw TH walking towards Steven Avery's trailer during his testimony and further makes reference to hearing Steven say "anyone want to help bury the body". His whole account is about pointing the finger at Stephen and he uses the police's well publicised theory to assist him.
purpleronnie Posted 21 April 2016 Posted 21 April 2016 Having seen documentaries similiar to this I can't say I'm surprised at the investigation. I don't know if he did it or not, the series certainly leads you to think he is innocent but one thing that surely can't be questioned is the total lack of due process in the investigation, astonishing that Steven Avery and Brendan Avery didn't get new trials at the very least. The interrogation of Brendan Avery has to be seen to be believed, I knew this sort of interigation happened in the past in the States I had hoped it was a thing of the past but obviously not.
jammie82uk Posted 12 August 2016 Posted 12 August 2016 Brendan dassey has had his sentence overturned
VLC86 Posted 12 August 2016 Posted 12 August 2016 15 minutes ago, jammie82uk said: Brendan dassey has had his sentence overturned Incredible stuff, has massive implications for the other guy surely.
jammie82uk Posted 12 August 2016 Posted 12 August 2016 1 hour ago, Costock_Fox said: Incredible stuff, has massive implications for the other guy surely. You would think so but they was tried differently so probably not It could still not be over as brendan still has to wait up to 90 days to see if the prosecution want to retrial him for the crimes
leicsmac Posted 13 August 2016 Posted 13 August 2016 Provided the conviction is indeed quashed and he walks free, I hope that Brendan then turns round and does what his uncle couldn't - namely, take the Manitowoc PD for every cent they have and the shirt off their backs through the legal system. Mainly for that grotesque excuse for an interrogation more than anything else.
The Quick Brown Fox Posted 15 August 2016 Posted 15 August 2016 On Saturday, August 13, 2016 at 01:43, leicsmac said: Provided the conviction is indeed quashed and he walks free, I hope that Brendan then turns round and does what his uncle couldn't - namely, take the Manitowoc PD for every cent they have and the shirt off their backs through the legal system. Mainly for that grotesque excuse for an interrogation more than anything else. Would you not be worried they'd come after you like they did his uncle?
leicsmac Posted 15 August 2016 Posted 15 August 2016 7 minutes ago, browniefox said: Would you not be worried they'd come after you like they did his uncle? Before it all went worldwide, absolutely. Now, with the massive popular coverage caused by the documentary, probably not so much as they will have every media and civil liberties organisation in the area crawling up their rear ends looking for them to play that kind of dirty trick.
The Quick Brown Fox Posted 15 August 2016 Posted 15 August 2016 35 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Before it all went worldwide, absolutely. Now, with the massive popular coverage caused by the documentary, probably not so much as they will have every media and civil liberties organisation in the area crawling up their rear ends looking for them to play that kind of dirty trick. Very true.
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