What's wrong with some of our fans !

[PAULCFC]

I was standing outside The Torch and for a while it was good humoured(even the guy stopping the traffic and then letting the cars and buses go by(drivers,bus drivers,people on the buses taking pics).But in a couple of minutes turned pretty nasty.Just feel sorry for the old dear going up the hill towards the torch who had a full can of lager get thrown inside her car.

[GaelicFox]

8 hours ago, C-man said:

You actually edited that post to stick UFS in it? Wow.

Yea it's what I actually thought 

 

special dedication to Tarquin and Ralph  

[AndWhat?]

Just now, GaelicFox said:

Yea it's what I actually thought 

 

special dedication to Tarquin and Ralph  

 

Your obsession with Union FS is just plain weird. 

[GaelicFox]

2 minutes ago, AndWhat? said:

 

Your obsession with Union FS is just plain weird. 

 

 

not at all , I'm obsessed with Tarquin and Ralph

 

 

 

antropology is hobby and those two have been facinating me all summer  

[HighPeakFox]

The answer to the original question is 'not enough brains and poorly brought up'.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

34 minutes ago, GaelicFox said:

Yea it's what I actually thought 

 

special dedication to Tarquin and Ralph  

To be fair you've always backed UFS. Didn't you sell those keyrings at the trophy parade to raise money for the tifo fund? How much did you end up giving them? 

[GaelicFox]

11 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

To be fair you've always backed UFS. Didn't you sell those keyrings at the trophy parade to raise money for the tifo fund? How much did you end up giving them? 

I was hoping you would jump in, No my attempts to get that off the ground failed , that's part of by issue Sol , i still have them in my store room  buddy ,

 

after at least 6-10 emails and messages and various people on here saying they would get them to contact me no one did 

 

and to be clear my offer was to see them sold to raise money for the Tifo fund to see the east stand included etc......

 

so after all my efforts I don't see all this "big inclusive" happy family ... I get the feeling it's maybe rather snooty and elitist bit like Tarquin and Ralph. 

 

Im hoping to donate the stuff to a charity or local deserving football team that might to sell them to raise funds  

 

anyone wanting details drop me a PM 

 

 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

1 minute ago, GaelicFox said:

I was hoping you would jump in, No my attempts to get that off the ground failed , that's part of by issue Sol , i still have them in my store room  buddy ,

 

after at least 6-10 emails and messages and various people on here saying they would get them to contact me no one did 

 

and to be clear my offer was to see them sold to raise money for the Tifo fund to see the east stand included etc......

 

so after all my efforts I don't see all this "big inclusive" happy family ... I get the feeling it's maybe rather snooty and elitist bit like Tarquin and Ralph. 

 

Im hoping to donate the stuff to a charity or local deserving football team that might to sell them to raise funds  

 

anyone wanting details drop me a PM 

 

 

Blimey mate no need to get so defensive I was only asking. 

[GaelicFox]

Just now, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Blimey mate no need to get so defensive I was only asking. 

Not defensive , sorry mate not having a go at you  all 

 

just explaining 

 

sorry buddy  

[AndWhat?]

8 minutes ago, GaelicFox said:

I was hoping you would jump in, No my attempts to get that off the ground failed , that's part of by issue Sol , i still have them in my store room  buddy ,

 

after at least 6-10 emails and messages and various people on here saying they would get them to contact me no one did 

 

and to be clear my offer was to see them sold to raise money for the Tifo fund to see the east stand included etc......

 

so after all my efforts I don't see all this "big inclusive" happy family ... I get the feeling it's maybe rather snooty and elitist bit like Tarquin and Ralph. 

 

Im hoping to donate the stuff to a charity or local deserving football team that might to sell them to raise funds  

 

anyone wanting details drop me a PM 

 

 

 

You are constantly acting like a twat towards UFS on here and then wonder why they ignore your emails?

 

I'm sorry but you come across as a complete weirdo. 

[Chris B]

Hi there,

I have an XL t shirt from Sunday would anyone want to swap for a medium please?

[Bayfox]

8 hours ago, CountesthorpeFox said:

I come from a middle class area of Leicester and a family that was more into the Tigers.

 

I would never say such an arrogant thing about our city, I find it disgusting that you make such generalisations. Some of my closest friends grew up on housing estates and they are hard working polite and decent human beings. 

 

My dad took me to Leicester vs Leeds in 94/95 and we sat in the kop, I was 8. I loved everything about it and have gone down ever since. I am proud of our fans and our people and always will be. The social mobility of football has always been one of the best things about it. You meet all types of people and we see guys who grew up with nothing becoming superstars, society should welcome this just like it would a young entrepreneur who made a popular app and made a fortune, but society particularly the elite have a problem with that social mobility.

 

let me guess, you dislike chavs from council estates who get into fights and drink too much? Like our star striker used to be ay? People change.

 

get a grip.

It was going so well 

[C-man]

8 hours ago, CountesthorpeFox said:

I come from a middle class area of Leicester and a family that was more into the Tigers.

 

I would never say such an arrogant thing about our city, I find it disgusting that you make such generalisations. Some of my closest friends grew up on housing estates and they are hard working polite and decent human beings. 

 

My dad took me to Leicester vs Leeds in 94/95 and we sat in the kop, I was 8. I loved everything about it and have gone down ever since. I am proud of our fans and our people and always will be. The social mobility of football has always been one of the best things about it. You meet all types of people and we see guys who grew up with nothing becoming superstars, society should welcome this just like it would a young entrepreneur who made a popular app and made a fortune, but society particularly the elite have a problem with that social mobility.

 

let me guess, you dislike chavs from council estates who get into fights and drink too much? Like our star striker used to be ay? People change.

 

get a grip.

This is one of the best posts I have seen on this forum in a long time - well said.

[GaelicFox]

33 minutes ago, AndWhat? said:

 

You are constantly acting like a twat towards UFS on here and then wonder why they ignore your emails?

 

I'm sorry but you come across as a complete weirdo. 

 

 

Ill take that as a complement , from the likes of you 

 

I'm guessing your Tarquin or Ralph  

 

Love the video guys , when I'm bored and depressed I watch it again , better than prozac 

 

 

[Nick]

32 minutes ago, Chris B said:

Hi there,

I have an XL t shirt from Sunday would anyone want to swap for a medium please?

 

Hi Chris that should fit me fine, thanks.

 

I'll take a look through the wash basket and see what I was wearing on Sunday and get it sent over to you, PM me your address.

[Rob1742]

9 hours ago, CountesthorpeFox said:

I come from a middle class area of Leicester and a family that was more into the Tigers.

 

I would never say such an arrogant thing about our city, I find it disgusting that you make such generalisations. Some of my closest friends grew up on housing estates and they are hard working polite and decent human beings. 

 

My dad took me to Leicester vs Leeds in 94/95 and we sat in the kop, I was 8. I loved everything about it and have gone down ever since. I am proud of our fans and our people and always will be. The social mobility of football has always been one of the best things about it. You meet all types of people and we see guys who grew up with nothing becoming superstars, society should welcome this just like it would a young entrepreneur who made a popular app and made a fortune, but society particularly the elite have a problem with that social mobility.

 

let me guess, you dislike chavs from council estates who get into fights and drink too much? Like our star striker used to be ay? People change.

 

get a grip.

It is not arrogant in anyway what I have put, it is facts. Facts that are City is poor, we have many poor areas and you can tell that when you look at the mix of the fans, versus someone like Brighton. It's a fact, no arrogance, just reality.

 

Just because I come from Leicester, it doesn't mean I have to like it. Doesn't mean I have to embrace the idiot who doesn't have the brains to read his seat number and be able to sit in it. 

 

Just because I come from Leicester it doesn't mean I am okay with the lads behind me at Southampton going to the bogs at half time to so drugs. Gone knows what they took, but the second half for our family wasn't all that great. 

 

The lads throwing beer over everyone at Burnley. Stinky at Norwich that made Bernie smell like a Debenhams perfume counter. You can go on and on. 

 

I know what Leicester is, Sunday was a prime example. 

 

There are loads and loads of fine examples of people doing well for themselves from the Leicester estates, thousands of examples. But the fact is, with the make up of our City, if you go to away games, you will certainly see a good number of people drool and dribble. It's amazing how they have managed to get themselves to the ground and your biting your nails and praying to god that you don't have one sitting near you. 

 

You maybe fine mixing with these people, but when I take my family along, my priority is with them and I personally don't like mixing with those that struggle to put their trousers on the right way in the morning. 

 

You embrace it, good for you. We should get them all together and they can sit near you every game. 

 

Me, I prefer to sit near people who take a bit of pride for themselves, respect those around them and generally have a shower before they come to games. 

[The Railway Man]

One walk through the town centre and you know what people are like, the people here are filthy, it has the smell of an old Labour voting City and has done for years.

 

As Rob says we should know what to expect unfortunately on days like this.

[HighPeakFox]

2 minutes ago, The Railway Man said:

One walk through the town centre and you know what people are like, the people here are filthy, it has the smell of an old Labour voting City and has done for years.

 

As Rob says we should know what to expect unfortunately on days like this.

I think any reference to political allegiance is so irrelevant it's untrue. I'm afraid that there is a massively deprived section of society now, and it will become more marked & noticeable as time passes.

[Bluetintedspecs]

2 hours ago, GaelicFox said:

 

 

Ill take that as a complement , from the likes of you 

 

I'm guessing your Tarquin or Ralph  

 

Love the video guys , when I'm bored and depressed I watch it again , better than prozac 

 

 

Ha ha ha, yes it's comedy gold,  I call them Smashy & Nicey but might nick Tarquin and add Quentin  see a few of the gang are getting sensitive and abusive towards you.

Those egos are getting huge, you don't want to upset them , they are bigger than and appear to think they are the only decent and most important fans of Leicester City.......They even have a big 'look at us ' banner ,  what next stadium naming rights and they'll be pulling their kit on and playing?

It's ALL about Union FS and their views, woe betide you if you challenge them or have differing views!

My views are going to be presented to the club with reasoned evidence as to why this egotistical monster is starting to get carried away and ultimately WILL damage the good name of Leicester City Football Club!

Seen it before and it happened then and it will and is happening again now!

Nobody is bigger than Leicester City Football Club, I suggest they reign in their egotistical self importance or they will go the same way!

Organised gangs with some of the views some of their members hold is bound to get out of hand and ultimately damage the Clubs good name. I would rather clearly state my concerns now than worry about a few precious, sensitive and bruised giant egos. To me what started out ok is going exactly the way I feared it would, more about the protest, the attention seeking/provocative march or look at us banners than the actual support thing within the stadium that it was sold as and supposed to be! The egos have landed sadly.

[C-man]

11 minutes ago, Bluetintedspecs said:

Ha ha ha, yes it's comedy gold,  I call them Smashy & Nicey but might nick Tarquin and add Quentin  see a few of the gang are getting sensitive and abusive towards you.

Those egos are getting huge, you don't want to upset them , they are bigger than and appear to think they are the only decent and most important fans of Leicester City.......They even have a big 'look at us ' banner ,  what next stadium naming rights and they'll be pulling their kit on and playing?

It's ALL about Union FS and their views, woe betide you if you challenge them or have differing views!

My views are going to be presented to the club with reasoned evidence as to why this egotistical monster is starting to get carried away and ultimately WILL damage the good name of Leicester City Football Club!

Seen it before and it happened then and it will and is happening again now!

Nobody is bigger than Leicester City Football Club, I suggest they reign in their egotistical self importance or they will go the same way!

Organised gangs with some of the views some of their members hold is bound to get out of hand and ultimately damage the Clubs good name. I would rather clearly state my concerns now than worry about a few precious, sensitive and bruised giant egos. To me what started out ok is going exactly the way I feared it would, more about the protest, the attention seeking/provocative march or look at us banners than the actual support thing within the stadium that it was sold as and supposed to be! The egos have landed sadly.

There has to be an element of self-promotion about any group in any area - be it football, politics or anything else. How else do you expect people to know about it enough to think 'that tifo/atmosphere was great, how can I get involved or contribute?' I don't really care if you believe me or not, but speaking on behalf of myself only, there is no ego involved: I do all this because I love the Club, I'm passionate about fan culture and atmosphere as I personally believe a better atmosphere contributes (in part) to better results. (I think there's some evidence of that at Filbert Way too). 

 

Fan sites like 100% LCFC or whoever choose to do it by flooding social media. Union FS doesn't have the same media skill so choose to do it through tifos, flags, scarves, merchandise and yes, the main banner that travelled to Wembley. 

 

If you seriously have a problem with the group standing behind that banner (or in front of it at Filbert Way) you might want to consider speaking to anyone who has their postcode or the name of their local pub emblazoned on a St George cross. I suspect you have no issue with that.

 

In reference to your post in the 'Infighting' thread which was closed before I had chance to reply, the accusation that our group holds no regard to others is just a downright lie to be honest. No other way of putting it. We worked hard to organise an area towards the back of the stand where we would stand together as a group in order to minimise the impact on others (of us waving our flags) and maximise the impact on the atmosphere. Even after a mix up with the ticket office with which rows we were to be allocated we moved to accommodate others on the day.

 

I'm not going to go into the Arsenal protest debate again because I remember going round and round in circles on that aswell, but before I respond to your comment that we feel we are 'better than other fans', let me refer you to a section on Union FS' website: 

 

"We also believe that is the responsibility of every Leicester City fan – young and old – to give their absolute all to support their team. Whether that is attending every game or none at all, sitting in the Family Stand or standing in L1, teaching your kids the lyrics to ‘When You’re Smiling’ or simply introducing them to Filbert Way – we will support you."

 

That is it as far as Union FS' beliefs go as far as support is concerned. No demands for people to stand, no demands for people to sing, no statements that one way is above any other, just a single belief that people should do what they can to support the team. In turn, I don't think it's too much for the group to ask that people respect how the group itself chooses to go about its business. 

 

Beyond the standard calls for Safe Standing (obviously required off the back of this thread), cheaper tickets and fairer kick off times (things we feel it's fair to assume 99% of people would back), I can assure you that we have never discussed anything but ourselves with the Club. So you have no need to worry that you are being in any way represented by UFS.

 

Finally, in respect to the march: ask anyone who took part whether they thought it was 'cringey', 'attention seeking' or 'provocative'. No it wasn't 'needed' but the comments we've received from those taking part tell me it was 100% worth it. The highlight of the day for many people. As for your comment in the other thread about attracting 'less savoury elements', the irony is too much: criticising Union FS for a 'holier than thou' attitude and then coming out with comments like that. Fantastic.

 

In summary:

- I recognise some behaviour across our fan base was disappointing on Sunday as is obvious from reading these threads. 

- There's no evidence Union FS members had anything to do with any of the incidents described in this thread so I'm still not sure why you are attacking the character of the group again. 

[CountesthorpeFox]

3 hours ago, Rob1742 said:

It is not arrogant in anyway what I have put, it is facts. Facts that are City is poor, we have many poor areas and you can tell that when you look at the mix of the fans, versus someone like Brighton. It's a fact, no arrogance, just reality.

 

Just because I come from Leicester, it doesn't mean I have to like it. Doesn't mean I have to embrace the idiot who doesn't have the brains to read his seat number and be able to sit in it. 

 

Just because I come from Leicester it doesn't mean I am okay with the lads behind me at Southampton going to the bogs at half time to so drugs. Gone knows what they took, but the second half for our family wasn't all that great. 

 

The lads throwing beer over everyone at Burnley. Stinky at Norwich that made Bernie smell like a Debenhams perfume counter. You can go on and on. 

 

I know what Leicester is, Sunday was a prime example. 

 

There are loads and loads of fine examples of people doing well for themselves from the Leicester estates, thousands of examples. But the fact is, with the make up of our City, if you go to away games, you will certainly see a good number of people drool and dribble. It's amazing how they have managed to get themselves to the ground and your biting your nails and praying to god that you don't have one sitting near you. 

 

You maybe fine mixing with these people, but when I take my family along, my priority is with them and I personally don't like mixing with those that struggle to put their trousers on the right way in the morning. 

 

You embrace it, good for you. We should get them all together and they can sit near you every game. 

 

Me, I prefer to sit near people who take a bit of pride for themselves, respect those around them and generally have a shower before they come to games. 

In terms of the average UK salary, Leicester is one of the poorest.

But the link is what I have an issue with -

Looking at the football arrests from 2015, two places above Leicester, in sixth, are Chelsea, which in 2014 was the area with the highest average UK salary.

These people misbehaving and causing you untold annoyance, have you surveyed them to determine their demographic? I am presuming you have and you know for a fact that they are all from housing estates and poor?

In the 15 years I have been going one of my friends has been arrested and put in a cell - he is from one of the wealthiest families of all of my friends, university educated etc.

I just think its arrogant to just assume all these people who misbehave all come from housing estates, poor areas etc. I guess your attitude towards people from these areas probably reflects that of some of society but it doesn't make it right, whatsoever.

You absolutely have a right to criticise the city and you absolutely have a right not to like it I just think you're making to many assumptions. Some of the worst criminals and most evil people in history don't all come from broken homes you know, some of them are the wealthiest and most powerful people there are. Just because they wear a suit, drink wine and have good grammar doesn't mean they are good people.

I don't have a family, so I cannot comment on whether I would feel comfortable taking them or not, but I am happy for you to get them all together so they can sit near me, just so it can be bearable for you.

[Guest Bilo]

5 hours ago, GaelicFox said:

 

 

not at all , I'm obsessed with Tarquin and Ralph

 

 

 

antropology is hobby and those two have been facinating me all summer  

Because having an obsession with two strangers to the point that you have given them pet names, invented a life history for both of them and post about them on a daily basis is the act of a mature and rational adult.

 

 

[Bluetintedspecs]

24 minutes ago, C-man said:

There has to be an element of self-promotion about any group in any area - be it football, politics or anything else. How else do you expect people to know about it enough to think 'that tifo/atmosphere was great, how can I get involved or contribute?' I don't really care if you believe me or not, but speaking on behalf of myself only, there is no ego involved: I do all this because I love the Club, I'm passionate about fan culture and atmosphere as I personally believe a better atmosphere contributes (in part) to better results. (I think there's some evidence of that at Filbert Way too). 

 

Fan sites like 100% LCFC or whoever choose to do it by flooding social media. Union FS doesn't have the same media skill so choose to do it through tifos, flags, scarves, merchandise and yes, the main banner that travelled to Wembley. 

 

If you seriously have a problem with the group standing behind that banner (or in front of it at Filbert Way) you might want to consider speaking to anyone who has their postcode or the name of their local pub emblazoned on a St George cross. I suspect you have no issue with that.

 

In reference to your post in the 'Infighting' thread which was closed before I had chance to reply, the accusation that our group holds no regard to others is just a downright lie to be honest. No other way of putting it. We worked hard to organise an area towards the back of the stand where we would stand together as a group in order to minimise the impact on others (of us waving our flags) and maximise the impact on the atmosphere. Even after a mix up with the ticket office with which rows we were to be allocated we moved to accommodate others on the day.

 

I'm not going to go into the Arsenal protest debate again because I remember going round and round in circles on that aswell, but before I respond to your comment that we feel we are 'better than other fans', let me refer you to a section on Union FS' website: 

 

"We also believe that is the responsibility of every Leicester City fan – young and old – to give their absolute all to support their team. Whether that is attending every game or none at all, sitting in the Family Stand or standing in L1, teaching your kids the lyrics to ‘When You’re Smiling’ or simply introducing them to Filbert Way – we will support you."

 

That is it as far as Union FS' beliefs go as far as support is concerned. No demands for people to stand, no demands for people to sing, no statements that one way is above any other, just a single belief that people should do what they can to support the team. In turn, I don't think it's too much for the group to ask that people respect how the group itself chooses to go about its business. 

 

Beyond the standard calls for Safe Standing (obviously required off the back of this thread), cheaper tickets and fairer kick off times (things we feel it's fair to assume 99% of people would back), I can assure you that we have never discussed anything but ourselves with the Club. So you have no need to worry that you are being in any way represented by UFS.

 

Finally, in respect to the march: ask anyone who took part whether they thought it was 'cringey', 'attention seeking' or 'provocative'. No it wasn't 'needed' but the comments we've received from those taking part tell me it was 100% worth it. The highlight of the day for many people. As for your comment in the other thread about attracting 'less savoury elements', the irony is too much: criticising Union FS for a 'holier than thou' attitude and then coming out with comments like that. Fantastic.

 

In summary:

- I recognise some behaviour across our fan base was disappointing on Sunday as is obvious from reading these threads. 

- There's no evidence Union FS members had anything to do with any of the incidents described in this thread so I'm still not sure why you are attacking the character of the group again. 

C man I have no doubt whatsoever YOU hold those beliefs, yet I suggest you read a couple of posts up and see the attacks on Gaelic even after he'd apologised , for what I don't know? 

I and everybody in the home areas or Leicester sections support Leicester City Football Club not a massive feck off Union FS banner ,other than an egotistical look at us purpose what is it there for?

Those flags you refer to always contain LCFC  and are common place.

I have seen your members aggressive, confrontational and insulting posts on here re standing, clappers and protests to name a few subjects!

I am not attacking the group about its initial intentions, I genuinely thought they were excellent, but sadly then came the egotistical self promotion, as I feared it's all about you its Union FS, our banner ,our ego look at us we're here world.

I don't agree with it I find it embarrassing to the club like them at Palace that are roundly ridiculed on here and that is my view, I can only see it going one way but let's see. What next L1 or Family Stand giant banners? 

Finally to make it abundantly clear, the initial aim .....great. The massive egos, self promotion, your gang members ridicule of other elements of our fan base and how they choose to support, which has happened on here on numerous occasions is what alienates people!

And don't say they haven't because they have and that's where the elitist and arrogant tag has come from and believe me that is not just me or a couple of people!

We are LCFC not Union FS.

 

[Guest Bilo]

2 hours ago, Bluetintedspecs said:

Ha ha ha, yes it's comedy gold,  I call them Smashy & Nicey but might nick Tarquin and add Quentin  see a few of the gang are getting sensitive and abusive towards you.

Those egos are getting huge, you don't want to upset them , they are bigger than and appear to think they are the only decent and most important fans of Leicester City.......They even have a big 'look at us ' banner ,  what next stadium naming rights and they'll be pulling their kit on and playing?

It's ALL about Union FS and their views, woe betide you if you challenge them or have differing views!

My views are going to be presented to the club with reasoned evidence as to why this egotistical monster is starting to get carried away and ultimately WILL damage the good name of Leicester City Football Club!

Seen it before and it happened then and it will and is happening again now!

Nobody is bigger than Leicester City Football Club, I suggest they reign in their egotistical self importance or they will go the same way!

Organised gangs with some of the views some of their members hold is bound to get out of hand and ultimately damage the Clubs good name. I would rather clearly state my concerns now than worry about a few precious, sensitive and bruised giant egos. To me what started out ok is going exactly the way I feared it would, more about the protest, the attention seeking/provocative march or look at us banners than the actual support thing within the stadium that it was sold as and supposed to be! The egos have landed sadly.

 

 

You really are an unusual and socially inadequate individual.

 

I'd pay good money to watch you tell fans with a St George's Cross with L1 written on it to take it down because 'we support Leicester City and not L1.' Please film it, I could do with a chuckle.

 

As your views being presented with the club with reasoned evidence, what reasoned evidence? I'd pay to see this email, please copy me into it. The fact is that the so-called reasoned evidence with which you're going to present the club is merely the chip you have on your shoulder about a group against whom you've developed an inexplicable vendetta. You implied that UFS or their members/supporters were responsible for the smoke bomb throwing, and had that theory completely and utterly debunked. Again, made me smile. You're certainly a reliable source of humour if not logic, reasoned views or anything worth reading for any purpose other than a cheap laugh.

 

Explain how UFS are damaging or will damage the good name of Leicester City Football Club. Helping to reinvigorate the support within the Kop and contributing, along with L1 and the pre-existing fans along the back of the Kop, is damaging is it? Perhaps it's those nasty tifos that are put together by fans of a range of ages and backgrounds volunteering their time at weekends? Terrible stuff, they're basically the LCFC version of Da'esh. Organised gangs? That one made me laugh. mainly for your confusion. First they're led by Smashy and Nicey/Tarquin/Quentin, the middle class poshos who spend their working week in the City of London, next they're marauding, knuckle dragging hooligans bent on beating the living shit out of anyone not wearing a UFS t-shirt or scarf. Make up your tiny mind, man! I'd also love to see you tell me what views they hold, I'll see if it bears any resemblance to the reality on Saturday. 

 

The sad thing is that the only ego is yours. The only 'holier than thou' attitude belongs not to UFS, but a clueless muppet who feels threatened by anything his pea sized intellect cannot comprehend. State your concerns if you wish. I bet you'll be ignored or fobbed off. The reason for that won't be some UFS inspired coup of the club's hierarchy as you'll almost certainly claim, but because your views and claims are demonstrably laughable, ignorant nonsense. 

 

Enjoy your day, and don't let the nasty UFS get you down. Speak to the lads on Saturday if you see 'em, they'll be the ones with the swastika armbands and the devil horns.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

BTS come on now mate. You keep raising the same flawed arguments and then keep getting absolutely battered by extremely coherent responses by somebody who can put their point across much much better than you can. At this point you remind me of the Knight in Blackadder, both arms and legs cut off but still valiantly going at it. 

I respect (but disagree massively with) your views, but do yourself a favour and just give it a rest for a bit, you're clearly on a bit of a crusade and I don't think you're doing your cause much good at the moment.