bovril Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 1 minute ago, Benguin said: Are you serious? Have you ever been to America or read about the progressive left in America. These kinds of campaigns are everywhere. Maybe, but the point remains Trump got fewer votes than Romney. So this idea of a great revolt against the 'progressive left' seems unfounded.
Benguin Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 I will answer you all, I've just got four or five posters debating me and I have a commercial law assignment going on as well.
bovril Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 1 minute ago, Benguin said: I will answer you all, I've just got four or five posters debating me and I have a commercial law assignment going on as well. You mass-debater, you.
Barky Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 13 minutes ago, Benguin said: It's not unreasonable, I've already said this if you read my posts. My whole moot point in this thread is that it's campaigns like this that are at the route cause of brexit, trump etc. If you think the existence of a relatively tiny group of people who want corporations to show more consideration to the type of message they support, and other people like them hold such massive influence over things then I'm surprised that you don't also understand why it's important that the likes of the daily mail are held to account for the lies and propaganda they spread to a much, much larger audience.
Finnaldo Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 3 minutes ago, bovril said: Maybe, but the point remains Trump got fewer votes than Romney. So this idea of a great revolt against the 'progressive left' seems unfounded. To be fair you could argue that Trump could have had even fewer votes if it wasn't for the pushing of the progressive left, or that Democrat voters didn't want to be associated with such
sphericalfox Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 6 minutes ago, Benguin said: I will answer you all, I've just got four or five posters debating me and I have a commercial law assignment going on as well. Given some of your posts, you best focus on that assignment!
Webbo Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 6 minutes ago, Finnaldo said: I can understand some of the more extreme third wave feminism stuff and the 'white people are privileged and racist', I say it myself, but this is a fairly legitimate campaign and anyone with a problem is being as delicate a snowflake as the hard-left they usually take the piss out of I'm against it on principle. It's trying to close down debate. If these people wanted to do something positive they'd buy the Guardian which is always begging for money every time you log on to their site. They could promote their own agenda but rather than do that they're trying to put their opponents out of business. It's nasty and illiberal, it stinks.
bovril Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 1 minute ago, Finnaldo said: To be fair you could argue that Trump could have had even fewer votes if it wasn't for the pushing of the progressive left, or that Democrat voters didn't want to be associated with such You could argue a lot of things. The dems have never been in the white house for more than two terms, its not surprising it lurched back to red this time. All this 'times are a changing' stuff seems a bit exaggerated.
Jimothy Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 1 minute ago, Webbo said: I'm against it on principle. It's trying to close down debate. If these people wanted to do something positive they'd buy the Guardian which is always begging for money every time you log on to their site. They could promote their own agenda but rather than do that they're trying to put their opponents out of business. It's nasty and illiberal, it stinks. It's not debate when it's using outright lies to promote its hatful agenda.
Webbo Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 Just now, Facecloth said: It's not debate when it's using outright lies to promote its hatful agenda. Which out right lies are they?
bovril Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 1 minute ago, Facecloth said: It's not debate when it's using outright lies to promote its hatful agenda. Panama papers?
sphericalfox Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 27 minutes ago, sphericalfox said: http://www.sub-scribe.co.uk/2016/09/the-press-and-immigration-reporting.html Should have put context on that link. It's a study of Migrant headline articles across various papers. Interesting read.
Izzy Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 Why's everyone so bloody sensitive these days? We're turning into a right namby pamby nation of pussies.
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 23 hours ago, sphericalfox said: I find it amusing that you think this papers are engaging intellectual debate. There's plenty of 'daily' examples, but these ones were obviously pulled together by some lefty loon/foreigner/ minority selectively making them look bad, and clearly these headlines are merely reflective of a political stance rather than some twisted hate agenda, and of course any organisation that advertises within these papers should be proud to make profit on the back of this, shouldn't they? YES! YES! YES! They have the guts to say it how it is! Like it, or lump it, but don't hide from it. Immigration is spiralling out of control, and affects housing, crime, education and above all, the NHS.
Finnaldo Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 10 minutes ago, Webbo said: I'm against it on principle. It's trying to close down debate. If these people wanted to do something positive they'd buy the Guardian which is always begging for money every time you log on to their site. They could promote their own agenda but rather than do that they're trying to put their opponents out of business. It's nasty and illiberal, it stinks. But the point is actual debate, reasoned argument and legitimate sources. They aren't doing that which is why they have to put an apology in every other edition.
Jimothy Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 12 minutes ago, Webbo said: Which out right lies are they? Two answers for you. 23 hours ago, sphericalfox said: I find it amusing that you think this papers are engaging intellectual debate. There's plenty of 'daily' examples, but these ones were obviously pulled together by some lefty loon/foreigner/ minority selectively making them look bad, and clearly these headlines are merely reflective of a political stance rather than some twisted hate agenda, and of course any organisation that advertises within these papers should be proud to make profit on the back of this, shouldn't they? 1 minute ago, Finnaldo said: But the point is actual debate, reasoned argument and legitimate sources. They aren't doing that which is why they have to put an apology in every other edition.
Benguin Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 What I need to make clear, as it seems a lot of people have joined the debate late or merely skimmed through, is that I am not right wing and do not buy or support the daily mail, the sun or many other newspapers. I do not generally agree with political compassing as climate change is completely different to immigration and both issues should be approached individually free of any bias. That said I am generally quite liberal in my political intercourse but a more traditional liberal than the 'progressives' you get today. My contention has been through this whole thread that campaigns such as this are counterproductive to their aims. The more aggressive the left gets the harder they get pushed back and that is easily demonstrated by shock results such as brexit and a moron like Trump winning the election in America. Someone posted that papers should be subjected to scrutiny etc to promote responsible journalism and I actually agree with this but not in the same regard. Papers should be free to post as they wish provided that it is lawful. Laws and regulations exist to monitor this. I do not think anything further needs to be done.
sphericalfox Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 1 minute ago, DANGEROUS TIGER said: YES! YES! YES! They have the guts to say it how it is! Like it, or lump it, but don't hide from it. Immigration is spiralling out of control, and affects housing, crime, education and above all, the NHS. The NHS isn't buckling because of immigrants. You have literally no idea what you are talking about.
Webbo Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 2 minutes ago, Facecloth said: Two answers for you. That's a lot of pictures. Can you tell me which one of those headlines is an outright lie?
Jimothy Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 9 minutes ago, DANGEROUS TIGER said: YES! YES! YES! They have the guts to say it how it is! Like it, or lump it, but don't hide from it. Immigration is spiralling out of control, and affects housing, crime, education and above all, the NHS. 7 hours ago, sphericalfox said: Who the **** said it does Webbo? Sounds to me like you're the one banging this drum. Get a grip and stop being bumhurt cos you read the DM and people are suggesting it might have an inappropriate agenda, provide evidence to contrary to your opinion, and making the assertion that everyone is assuming because of that, you too support and or agree with their campaign. You simply cannot argue that the inflammatory language used by both these papers within their headlines and stories, including editorials is objective or factually correct even as an uneducated yet well read individual. You are stuck on the record that this campaign is to try to put these papers out of business, and censor right wing opinion. It is not. It won't happen. It's an attempt to pressurise companies to reconsider their affiliation with papers that distort fact, and campaign with an insidious agenda against minorities. No one says that papers can't publish what they choose, whatever political side they represent or support. Heavy fines is not the answer to published lies, hypocrisy, and untruths. The minimal fine gets paid, the apology hidden in a small box and never gets read or acknowledge by the readers. Your belief that it is undemocratic to put pressure on companies to hold them to account to where they make their profits off the back of, is as deluded as your belief that the DM & Sun are doing no wrong. If serious issues, or issues that are genuinely impacting average people of this country are debated without the rhetoric or BS that gets printed in ALL media, then we could actually address them with solutions, not reactionary prohibitions, and deepening divisionary methodology. 6 hours ago, DANGEROUS TIGER said: What a load of rubbish, as per usual. 6 hours ago, sphericalfox said: please elaborate... 6 hours ago, Facecloth said: Wonderful argument. You'd get a lot more respect and people would listen to your point more if you actually tried to counter his post rather than make stupid pointless comments that say nothing. Nice of yoy to to come back and post in here @DANGEROUS TIGER and not respond to this, because you clearly can't
Finnaldo Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 1 minute ago, DANGEROUS TIGER said: YES! YES! YES! They have the guts to say it how it is! Like it, or lump it, but don't hide from it. Immigration is spiralling out of control, and affects housing, crime, education and above all, the NHS. I've seen a few stories recently about old age drivers driving on the wrong side of the road and causing accidents, so people over 60 are mindless fools who can't be trusted on their own. Is that telling it how it is, DT?
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 20 hours ago, Barky said: Well I'm sorry but it's just a fact that both the brexit and trump wins were based on votes which came mostly from people without further education. I'm not saying those people lack intelligence. What a pathetic, unfounded and bigoted statement to make. My son has a BA with Honours, and an MA with credit. He and thousands like him voted to leave
Jimothy Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 1 minute ago, Webbo said: That's a lot of pictures. Can you tell which one of those headlines is an outright lie? The numerous ones that were retracted days later. And in all seriousness can you really say that sensationalist bullshit is adding any debate?
sphericalfox Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 1 minute ago, Finnaldo said: I've seen a few stories recently about old age drivers driving on the wrong side of the road and causing accidents, so people over 60 are mindless fools who can't be trusted on their own. Is that telling it how it is, DT? Only if they are pissed and driving a tractor.
Jimothy Posted 13 November 2016 Posted 13 November 2016 1 minute ago, DANGEROUS TIGER said: What a pathetic, unfounded and bigoted statement to make. My son has a BA with Honours, and an MA with credit. He and millions like him voted to leave He obviously has a bad influence in his life
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