TJB-fox Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 Quite like the idea of Mancini like someone's mentioned but for the record I think it would be ridiculous if we sacked Claudio. Fairly confident he'll be given time
HankMarvin Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 14 minutes ago, Strokes said: Ok so in your world managers have to have had identical careers in order for stats to be comparable then? Hold tight, you said he was at Chelsea for four years and for three of those they were of similar stature to what Blackburn, Newcastle and possibly West Ham were whilst Allardyce was in charge. Thats not quite the case. In answer to your question, when dismissing a manager because of win ratio compared to another manager with a different career trajectory yes personally I believe it makes the comparison obsolete. Obviously the advantage is with the manager that has managed less and had the better team.
The Doctor Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 48 minutes ago, HankMarvin said: Hold tight, you said he was at Chelsea for four years and for three of those they were of similar stature to what Blackburn, Newcastle and possibly West Ham were whilst Allardyce was in charge. Thats not quite the case. In answer to your question, when dismissing a manager because of win ratio compared to another manager with a different career trajectory yes personally I believe it makes the comparison obsolete. Obviously the advantage is with the manager that has managed less and had the better team. You could easily flip that and say that ranieri has had one season with the level of quality allardyce has had, and achieved far more with than allardyce will ever. Even still, ever considered that ranieri has had the better sides because he's proven himself worthy of them? There's a reason Mourinho is courted by sides with aspirations to be the greatest in Europe while Tony Pulis is a desperate man's last reserve. It's because Mourinho is top notch; but what your argument would be that Mourinho only seems that much better because hes had more to work with - we all know that even given the GDP of a gulf state Pulis would never get close to a league title.
HankMarvin Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 3 minutes ago, The Doctor said: You could easily flip that and say that ranieri has had one season with the level of quality allardyce has had, and achieved far more with than allardyce will ever. Even still, ever considered that ranieri has had the better sides because he's proven himself worthy of them? There's a reason Mourinho is courted by sides with aspirations to be the greatest in Europe while Tony Pulis is a desperate man's last reserve. It's because Mourinho is top notch; but what your argument would be that Mourinho only seems that much better because hes had more to work with - we all know that even given the GDP of a gulf state Pulis would never get close to a league title. But we all know that was an anomaly, are we crediting CR with winning the title single handily even though prior to that season the team won 7-9 which was premier winning form. I dont recall SA taking over a team that had won 7-9 on the previous games, quite the contrary when the teams were at the lowest ebb. In answer to your question, how do we know what TP could achieve with the players of Chelsea or Man Uniteds quality?
The Doctor Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 Just now, HankMarvin said: But we all know that was an anomaly, are we crediting CR with winning the title single handily even though prior to that season the team won 7-9 which was premier winning form. I dont recall SA taking over a team that had won 7-9 on the previous games, quite the contrary when the teams were at the lowest ebb. In answer to your question, how do we know what TP could achieve with the players of Chelsea or Man Uniteds quality? The idea that ranieri came in and just rode the wave of the great escape is possibly the most ridiculous thing being posted on here at the moment, even ahead of the people asking for Pardew. Ranieri pulled off an absolute masterclass last season, and anyone trying to take that away from him is letting the current slump blind them. Hes never been given the chance, and there's a damn good reason why he's never progressed beyond pointless clogger.
HankMarvin Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 13 minutes ago, The Doctor said: The idea that ranieri came in and just rode the wave of the great escape is possibly the most ridiculous thing being posted on here at the moment, even ahead of the people asking for Pardew. Ranieri pulled off an absolute masterclass last season, and anyone trying to take that away from him is letting the current slump blind them. Hes never been given the chance, and there's a damn good reason why he's never progressed beyond pointless clogger. nobody expected to win the league, but the form in the last 9 games cant be taken away either.
The Doctor Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 18 minutes ago, HankMarvin said: nobody expected to win the league, but the form in the last 9 games cant be taken away either. It can't, but you're implying that had Allardyce come in to a team who had a good spell of form there's no reason he couldn't have pulled off last season. That is absolute nonsense. A good ending to the previous season can only take you so far.
Donut Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 34 minutes ago, HankMarvin said: But we all know that was an anomaly, are we crediting CR with winning the title single handily even though prior to that season the team won 7-9 which was premier winning form. I dont recall SA taking over a team that had won 7-9 on the previous games, quite the contrary when the teams were at the lowest ebb. In answer to your question, how do we know what TP could achieve with the players of Chelsea or Man Uniteds quality? 14 minutes ago, HankMarvin said: nobody expected to win the league, but the form in the last 9 games cant be taken away either. Alan Curbishley's West Ham won 7 out of the last 9 games in the 06/07 season. Did they come anywhere near winning the league the following season? no. Against all the odds, a dead and buried Bradford City in the final 5 weeks of the 99/00 season Bradford scored 10 points, losing only to Leicester and securing survival with a miraculous 1-0 win over Liverpool. Did they come anywhere near to winning the league the following season? they finished bottom 16 points adrift of safety. So yes, we are crediting the title win to Ranieri, because to suggest the last 9 games made us legitimate title contenders makes you look like a melt.
Strokes Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 20 minutes ago, HankMarvin said: Hold tight, you said he was at Chelsea for four years and for three of those they were of similar stature to what Blackburn, Newcastle and possibly West Ham were whilst Allardyce was in charge. Thats not quite the case. In answer to your question, when dismissing a manager because of win ratio compared to another manager with a different career trajectory yes personally I believe it makes the comparison obsolete. Obviously the advantage is with the manager that has managed less and had the better team. They were of similar stature, a good manager could have done similar to what Chelsea were achieving at those clubs. All the ingredients were their.
Strokes Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 10 minutes ago, Donut said: Alan Curbishley's West Ham won 7 out of the last 9 games in the 06/07 season. Did they come anywhere near winning the league the following season? no. Against all the odds, a dead and buried Bradford City in the final 5 weeks of the 99/00 season Bradford scored 10 points, losing only to Leicester and securing survival with a miraculous 1-0 win over Liverpool. Did they come anywhere near to winning the league the following season? they finished bottom 16 points adrift of safety. So yes, we are crediting the title win to Ranieri, because to suggest the last 9 games made us legitimate title contenders makes you look like a melt.
HankMarvin Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 54 minutes ago, The Doctor said: It can't, but you're implying that had Allardyce come in to a team who had a good spell of form there's no reason he couldn't have pulled off last season. That is absolute nonsense. A good ending to the previous season can only take you so far. we will never know. Are you saying winning the league was down to a manager that had never won the league in his career? or a multitude of variables that aligned at the right time. Example being 2-0 down against Villa and Stoke Was the final result down to a tactical masterclass or the players desire. Cr managing the same way this season, so id say it was down to desire
HankMarvin Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 37 minutes ago, Donut said: Alan Curbishley's West Ham won 7 out of the last 9 games in the 06/07 season. Did they come anywhere near winning the league the following season? no. Against all the odds, a dead and buried Bradford City in the final 5 weeks of the 99/00 season Bradford scored 10 points, losing only to Leicester and securing survival with a miraculous 1-0 win over Liverpool. Did they come anywhere near to winning the league the following season? they finished bottom 16 points adrift of safety. So yes, we are crediting the title win to Ranieri, because to suggest the last 9 games made us legitimate title contenders makes you look like a melt. it showed that the team were under performing based on the tactics that were deployed in the previous 29 matches (see this season), who said anything about expecting to win the league:? i suggest you learn to read melt 1 hour ago, HankMarvin said: nobody expected to win the league, but the form in the last 9 games cant be taken away either.
HankMarvin Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 46 minutes ago, Strokes said: They were of similar stature, a good manager could have done similar to what Chelsea were achieving at those clubs. All the ingredients were their. are you drunk? Their? " All the ingredients were their" what like being in a different division and being 19th in the league. OK I have all ready detailed your explanation of similar stature, if you choose to ignore it fine. Not sure why you are comparing a Chelsea team that finished in the top six for 7 years won the FA cup and cup winners to a team 13th 19th and one relegated for stature
st albans fox Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 46 minutes ago, Donut said: Alan Curbishley's West Ham won 7 out of the last 9 games in the 06/07 season. Did they come anywhere near winning the league the following season? no. Against all the odds, a dead and buried Bradford City in the final 5 weeks of the 99/00 season Bradford scored 10 points, losing only to Leicester and securing survival with a miraculous 1-0 win over Liverpool. Did they come anywhere near to winning the league the following season? they finished bottom 16 points adrift of safety. So yes, we are crediting the title win to Ranieri, because to suggest the last 9 games made us legitimate title contenders makes you look like a melt. Form over the final half dozen games of any season is open to skew - many teams have nothing to play for Claudio's master class last season was the period after arsenal away we played teams who needed the points and knew how we were going to play. They dropped deep and Claudio worked out each game tactically to get us just across the line in nearly all of them. 1-0, 1-0, 1-0. That's when he really earned his dough and I doubt many managers would have achieved what he did over that period
The Doctor Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 20 minutes ago, HankMarvin said: we will never know. Are you saying winning the league was down to a manager that had never won the league in his career? or a multitude of variables that aligned at the right time. It's a multitude of factors - everything is, but one of the biggest factors (alongside a side playing out of their skins) was Ranieri outthinking and outfoxing everyone else
EGBFitness Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 The difference between stoke game and Everton game is ridiculous. All season we have had no form and lack of spirit when it comes to premier league games - This is the concern for me. I remember reading an article somewhere suggesting we should sack CR in the summer and appoint someone like Pellegrini due to CR always being unable to take teams to the next level. Obviously reading at the time it was read as more than a joke and although I think CR deserved this season I can't help but wonder if we had done what Chelsea done with CR and Mourinho. This summer was the clubs biggest in our history, we were champions of England, champions league and money to blow - the club should of really gone to the next level and invested, players 100% would of come with the position we was in. We seem to have side stepped if not took a step back. If CR stays or goes we need someone who is going to get the best out of the current players and actually create an effective playing style again. You never know what pulling power the owners have but I don't think we would appeal to anyone like Pellegrini, I think Mancini could be a good shout but once again not sure if we would be of an interest. Looks like it's going to be Preki
HKFox Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 With all the talk of Ranieri to go or stay. Who would you like to be the new manager ? I am in the Ranieri to go area, purely because I hate to see our players lack of effort, can't pass a ball, same excuse after every game, players not motivated, and a horrific transfer window. Ranieri comes across as a nice guy just think time to go. - AVB - Mancini - Rowett - Howe - (Personally my choice) Available but I hope not. - Pardew - Redknapp Potential - Giggs - Hoffenheim manager, name escapes me at moment.
HankMarvin Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 1 minute ago, The Doctor said: It's a multitude of factors - everything is, but one of the biggest factors (alongside a side playing out of their skins) was Ranieri outthinking and outfoxing everyone else If that is/was the case, why is he not outfoxing the opponents this year?
EGBFitness Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 2 minutes ago, HKFox said: With all the talk of Ranieri to go or stay. Who would you like to be the new manager ? I am in the Ranieri to go area, purely because I hate to see our players lack of effort, can't pass a ball, same excuse after every game, players not motivated, and a horrific transfer window. Ranieri comes across as a nice guy just think time to go. - AVB - Mancini - Rowett - Howe - (Personally my choice) Available but I hope not. - Pardew - Redknapp Potential - Giggs - Hoffenheim manager, name escapes me at moment. Hasn't AVB just taken over a Chinese side on some ridiculous salary?
The Doctor Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 Just now, HankMarvin said: If that is/was the case, why is he not outfoxing the opponents this year? Who knows, but this year doesn't say anything about his performance last year
Chico1958 Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 We were all purring after the Man City game We were all amazed at the fight shown by the team when we got 2 back against 11 man Stoke We have not won a game since the 90's on Boxing Day Everton did a Leicester on Leicester, over the top and run at slow defenders. It's hard to take but unless he walks he can stay.............. As for the 11 that take to the pitch now that's another story. He helped give them fame and fortune................ Let them pay him back The root of all evil
HankMarvin Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 3 minutes ago, The Doctor said: Who knows, but this year doesn't say anything about his performance last year Surely if he is a tactical genius one year, it doesn't stop after a few months (by pre season)
The Doctor Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 Just now, HankMarvin said: Surely if he is a tactical genius one year, it doesn't stop after a few months (by pre season) Honestly, if you don't think Ranieri pulled off tactical masterclasses all of last season then you need to give up watching football, because you don't have the first clue about it. No ifs, no buts - anyone who thinks Ranieri wasn't brilliant last season is wrong.
1972 Fox Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 37 minutes ago, Chico1958 said: We have not won a game since the 90's on Boxing Day 26 December 2013 - Leicester 1 Reading 0. For the record - Ranieri should stay. He gave us the greatest prize we could ever possibly wish for. He is an honourable man and will know when it is the right time to stand down.
jim5000 Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 4 hours ago, TJB-fox said: Quite like the idea of Mancini like someone's mentioned but for the record I think it would be ridiculous if we sacked Claudio. Fairly confident he'll be given time Agree... I'm glad Fat Sam has gone to Crystal Palace as he's the last person I'd want running the club. If the worst does happen and we have to part ways with Ranieri in the near future, I'd much prefer someone like Mancini - shows a bit more ambition from the owners..
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