The Doctor Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 9 minutes ago, Blue Fox 72 said: 26 December 2013 - Leicester 1 Reading 0. For the record - Ranieri should stay. He gave us the greatest prize we could ever possibly wish for. He is an honourable man and will know when it is the right time to stand down. I assume he means top flight. 2015 - Liverpool (a) - 0-1 2014 - Spurs (h) 1-2 2003 - Newcastle (h) 1-1 2001 - Ipswich (a) 0-2 2000 - Arsenal (a) 1-6 1999 - Leeds (a) 1-2 1998 - Sheff Weds (a) 1-0 Even if you take in the football league years it's 4 wins, 5 draws and 7 defeats in 16 years.
HankMarvin Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 57 minutes ago, The Doctor said: Honestly, if you don't think Ranieri pulled off tactical masterclasses all of last season then you need to give up watching football, because you don't have the first clue about it. No ifs, no buts - anyone who thinks Ranieri wasn't brilliant last season is wrong. The question i asked is why if he is a tactical genius does it stop within months of winning the league, not seen many signs of a tactical genius this season.
The Doctor Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 2 minutes ago, HankMarvin said: The question i asked is why if he is a tactical genius does it stop within months of winning the league, not seen many signs of a tactical genius this season. And the obvious meaning behind asking that question is that you don't think he was a tactical genius last season, otherwise you wouldn't be arguing against crediting him as being instrumental in winning the title. So I stand behind saying you don't know anything about football.
wardyfox86 Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 1 hour ago, The Doctor said: Honestly, if you don't think Ranieri pulled off tactical masterclasses all of last season then you need to give up watching football, because you don't have the first clue about it. No ifs, no buts - anyone who thinks Ranieri wasn't brilliant last season is wrong. I think his genius was in his man management skills and the way he dampened expectations with the word "dreaming" Tactically, he got it spot on from about mid Sept and the team picked itself from there. There was just a tidal wave of passion and commitment that flowed through the team. Then we strolled up to Hull thinking we could walk it, got beat and knocked beck down to earth. I love Claudio, he's a genuine gentleman and will go down as a legend at this club, but I'm not sure how anybody can believe things are going to change when it hasn't already. And I'm just not confident our transfer policy will bring the right players in this window, i just hope I'm wrong.
The_77 Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 We're coming off great performances against Man City and Stoke and an unlucky result against Bournemouth. We never win on Boxing Day. The results will come and we'll be safe.
HankMarvin Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 12 minutes ago, The Doctor said: And the obvious meaning behind asking that question is that you don't think he was a tactical genius last season, otherwise you wouldn't be arguing against crediting him as being instrumental in winning the title. So I stand behind saying you don't know anything about football. But still you dont answer the question Firstly he im not saying he doesn't deserve credit for what he achieved, as i answered earlier i believe it was down to a multitude of variables, the nice guy persona after the tough Person stance. Cr taking away the pressure from the players. his man management The Kante effect the players desire, the confidence of the players. Steve walshs input. I dont think think he was a tactical genius because that implies there were a wide scope of different options deployed the 4411/442 served us well. The question i ask is how can a "tactical genius" look so one dimensional months later if they are in fact a tactical genius.
The Doctor Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 Just now, HankMarvin said: But still you dont answer the question Firstly he im not saying he doesn't deserve credit for what he achieved, as i answered earlier i believe it was down to a multitude of variables, the nice guy persona after the tough Person stance. Cr taking away the pressure from the players. The Kante effect the players desire, the confidence of the players. Steve walshs input. I dont think think he was a tactical genius because that implies there were a wide scope of different options deployed the 4411/442 served us well. The question i ask is how can a "tactical genius" look so one dimensional months later if they are in fact a tactical genius. Fairly well established that the players are desperate for 4-4-2 - he's hamstrung by the players he's got here in terms of anything other than minor tweaks, but it was those minor tweaks that he pulled off preemptively last season to devastating effect. I've already said I don't know why we're doing so poorly this season - multitude of factors including a poor pre-season and a failure to get a proper replacement for Kante, but trying to discredit last seasons Ranieri, as you are trying to, is utterly ridiculous, even more so insinuating that he came in to the great end to the season and didn't need to do much (which Donut has already fairly comprehensively demolished). Going back to the original point, regardless of this season, he's still obviously miles ahead of Sam ****ing Allardyce - Allardyce has had years of working with squads on the level of last seasons side, and got no further than midtable.
The Doctor Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 6 minutes ago, wardyfox86 said: I think his genius was in his man management skills and the way he dampened expectations with the word "dreaming" Tactically, he got it spot on from about mid Sept and the team picked itself from there. There was just a tidal wave of passion and commitment that flowed through the team. Then we strolled up to Hull thinking we could walk it, got beat and knocked beck down to earth. I love Claudio, he's a genuine gentleman and will go down as a legend at this club, but I'm not sure how anybody can believe things are going to change when it hasn't already. And I'm just not confident our transfer policy will bring the right players in this window, i just hope I'm wrong. Starting line up may have picked itself from there, but it's the little changes in strategy and emphasis in practically every game, shutting sides down at the first sniff of a response, that I'm talking about.
jim5000 Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 35 minutes ago, The Doctor said: And the obvious meaning behind asking that question is that you don't think he was a tactical genius last season, otherwise you wouldn't be arguing against crediting him as being instrumental in winning the title. So I stand behind saying you don't know anything about football. He was instrumental behind winning the title, but he's also instrumental behind the current appalling form. It's even more galling considering we won the league a few months ago!!!
HankMarvin Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 26 minutes ago, The Doctor said: Fairly well established that the players are desperate for 4-4-2 - he's hamstrung by the players he's got here in terms of anything other than minor tweaks, but it was those minor tweaks that he pulled off preemptively last season to devastating effect. I've already said I don't know why we're doing so poorly this season - multitude of factors including a poor pre-season and a failure to get a proper replacement for Kante, but trying to discredit last seasons Ranieri, as you are trying to, is utterly ridiculous, even more so insinuating that he came in to the great end to the season and didn't need to do much (which Donut has already fairly comprehensively demolished). Going back to the original point, regardless of this season, he's still obviously miles ahead of Sam ****ing Allardyce - Allardyce has had years of working with squads on the level of last seasons side, and got no further than midtable. Surely a tactical genius has more up his sleeve than a 442 regardless of personnel when a League winning team is performing like relegation candidates. You have said potential reasons for our poor form, yet fail to explain why the tactical genius has looked pretty one dimensional in 18 league games? that wasn't the original point the original point was that their (SA - CR) win ratios are not comparative
The Doctor Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 Just now, HankMarvin said: Surely a tactical genius has more up his sleeve than a 442 regardless of personnel when a League winning team is performing like relegation candidates. You have said potential reasons for our poor form, yet fail to explain why the tactical genius has looked pretty one dimensional in 18 league games? that wasn't the original point the original point was that their (SA - CR) win ratios are not comparative Not remotely true: 33 minutes ago, The Doctor said: Fairly well established that the players are desperate for 4-4-2 - he's hamstrung by the players he's got here in terms of anything other than minor tweaks
HankMarvin Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 Just now, The Doctor said: Not remotely true: Surely that's a kop out though, maybe they dont have faith in his other formations ?. Surely if you are a tactical genius players have to have the belief to engage in your other styles of play. Do you not consider it a failing of a manger that he is being dictated too by the players, overachieving players - yes let them dictate. Relegation fodder performances and they shouldn't be dictating. Very fortunate to not need to change things last year.
Strokes Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 Nice to see our own fans discrediting achievements by current serving players and staff, bravo! Ranieri has made mistakes this season, nobody is saying otherwise but Kante leaving has been devastating and his replacement has been sidelined all season. We don't know that three in the middle would have produced any better results. We don't know that by sacking him we will get better. He will deal with this in the transfer window and we will improve. I have no fears over relegation, that is why I back Ranieri to the hilt. We aren't even in the bottom three and haven't been all season, despite being no where near our full level. Give the guy a break, get behind them on Saturday and be supporters.
smudger63 Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 It would be interesting to know how many of the people that want Ranieri out now, were also calling for Pearson to be sacked at the same stage of the great escape season. Under Pearson after 18 games we were bottom of the table with 10 points, and on a run of 2 points from 39, 2 draws and 11 defeats. Now anyone who wanted Pearson to keep his job at that point, but now thinks that Ranieri should be sacked, it would be interesting to know their reasoning. Personally, under Pearson at that stage, i saw no hope for us, we were absolutely dire, and going into games trying to stay in games, (and losing), rather than go into games looking to win them. At the moment, i still feel hope that we are good enough to get ourselves out of the mess we have got ourselves into, maybe it`s blind faith or maybe i`m in denial, that we could be so good last season, that we walk the league, and then this season, with the same players except for one, be so bad that we go down. Let us get one thing straight in any case, we would not have won the league last season under Pearson, in fact i don`t believe we would have won the league last season, under any other manager than Ranieri. For that alone, he deserves more time to turn things around, and dare i say it, but a little more credit and respect than he is getting from some people on here.
smudger63 Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 49 minutes ago, HankMarvin said: Surely that's a kop out though, maybe they dont have faith in his other formations ?. Surely if you are a tactical genius players have to have the belief to engage in your other styles of play. Do you not consider it a failing of a manger that he is being dictated too by the players, overachieving players - yes let them dictate. Relegation fodder performances and they shouldn't be dictating. Very fortunate to not need to change things last year. I`m getting the feeling that you were one of Pearsons biggest fans, maybe i`m wrong, but in any case, isn`t that exactly what happened with Pearson? The players had a meeting, and told the manager that they should change to three in midfield?
weller54 Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 1 minute ago, smudger63 said: I`m getting the feeling that you were one of Pearsons biggest fans, maybe i`m wrong, but in any case, isn`t that exactly what happened with Pearson? The players had a meeting, and told the manager that they should change to three in midfield? Think Cambiasso told Pearson that was happening!
ealingfox Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 I'm sorry but I said literally straight away when it happened that Kante leaving meant we could no longer play 4-4-2. That is not an analysis only a tactical genius could come up with, it was fvcking obvious. He had most of the window left to sort some players and do the training for us to sack off 4-4-2. I think we have the players to have a crack at 4-3-3 as it is. Him not changing anything because the players have got him under their thumbs, if this is the case, is more of a reason he should be dismissed than almost all of the others, and there's a few of them now. He's the manager ffs. I don't really want him to be sacked because I don't have much faith in us to make a good appointment subsequently, but he's been the worst-performing manager in the league by a distance this season, and people have every right to question how he could be considered a tactical genius when this is the case.
HankMarvin Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 6 minutes ago, smudger63 said: I`m getting the feeling that you were one of Pearsons biggest fans, maybe i`m wrong, but in any case, isn`t that exactly what happened with Pearson? The players had a meeting, and told the manager that they should change to three in midfield? No i wasnt his biggest fan, i hope CR turns it around -its just frustrating how many times can you see the same lack of creativity and the same hoofball with no effect before you change it up. it would be nice to see the play like against man city in the early stages, attacking with desire. i think we are set up to defend far too often, and thats the same failings that made us bottom 2 years ago.
StriderHiryu Posted 27 December 2016 Posted 27 December 2016 On 26/12/2016 at 19:23, adam said: I'd hate to see him sacked I really would but if we get done by the hammers the owners may get a panic on. It is completely unacceptable at the moment and his transfer dealings have been pretty poor. This. If we hadn't had such a magnificent season last year, he would likely already have been sacked with the team performances and results this year, and with the January transfer window around the corner. Palace and now Swansea have reacted so I would expect to see some partial upturn in form from both in the next two games. Honestly, the way we have played this season I can't believe we are not in the bottom three so can consider ourselves to be somewhat lucky. We were turned over and made to look poor by both Sunderland and Hull who are below us. But I want to say again that I would hate to see Claudio go. He is a legend not just for winning us the title, but the way he handled himself doing it. He's such a gentleman and it makes me proud to have a manager like him in charge. The day he goes, no matter how it happens, will be a tragic one for LCFC. He deserves the chance to fix things with the transfer window, but we are in huge trouble with problems all over the place and a complete lack of confidence. When he was appointed last year we all feared that being part of a relegation dogfight was not something he was known for. I hope he can prove us all wrong and keep us up. I also want to say that the way as a club we behaved after winning the title was completely over the top. Cavorting around the world, printing "Champions" on everything, advertising Vardy's book on the billboards during the game (!), the list goes on. Some of these things are understandable but many are not. I think the recent BBC awards showed that mentally many of us are still in last season. Claudio once said "I don't want to wake up, I want to continue to dream!" which was brilliant at the time, but right now we need to wake up, smell the bacon and fight.
smudger63 Posted 28 December 2016 Posted 28 December 2016 17 minutes ago, weller54 said: Think Cambiasso told Pearson that was happening! Thank god he did, because playing the extra midfielder meant we were able to see the real Cambiasso, and the rest as they say is history.
smudger63 Posted 28 December 2016 Posted 28 December 2016 11 minutes ago, HankMarvin said: No i wasnt his biggest fan, i hope CR turns it around -its just frustrating how many times can you see the same lack of creativity and the same hoofball with no effect before you change it up. it would be nice to see the play like against man city in the early stages, attacking with desire. i think we are set up to defend far too often, and thats the same failings that made us bottom 2 years ago. Thats the way we set up last season though, we defended deep, tucked our full backs in to encourage the opposition to put the ball out wide, then let Huth and Morgan head out the crosses coming into the box. We also had a ball winner in Kante that gave Drinkwater a little more time, and the team a spring board to counter with pace. We don`t currently have that. At the end of last season, i was telling anyone that would listen, that the one player we couldn`t afford to lose, above even Vardy and Mahrez, was Kante, because i don`t know of another player that can do what he can do as well as he can do it. It`s interesting watching him at Chelsea, because he just saunters through games, because he has Matic along side him, and he don`t have to half of the work he done here.
WigstonWanderer Posted 28 December 2016 Posted 28 December 2016 Don't necessarily want Claudio to go, but while discussing possible successors, what about Garry Monk? Or Sanchez Flores? Both sacked somewhat prematurely IMO. Perhaps they wouldn't come here.
Struwwelpeter60 Posted 28 December 2016 Posted 28 December 2016 The main reasons for our dismal performance this season are, that our most important midfielder left the club, his replacement got injured in week 2 and our two top scorers of last season are out of form/out of their minds/ no longer interested, or whatever. Is any of that Ranieri's fault? Would replacing him change anything? Kante is gone. A new manager wouldn't bring him back. Mahrez is dreaming of playing for Barca and is still frustrated, that LCFC didn't let him go in the summer. Like Kante, he always regarded Leicester only as a steppingstone on his way to the top. A new manager wouldn't change that. Vardy has, as many others in the team, problems to handle his sudden/unexpected fame. All that fuss about the movie, the book, his marriage etc distracted him. He was/is no longer focused solely on football. What could/should Ranieri have done about all that? He has no influence on Vardy's private life, or his business dealings. It is fascinating to see, that many people here always write, "we" won the title, but are, only one sentence later, putting all the blame for our current situation on Ranieri. What happened to the "we" ? Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan. How true.
ZeGuy Posted 28 December 2016 Posted 28 December 2016 3 hours ago, Strokes said: Nice to see our own fans discrediting achievements by current serving players and staff, bravo! Ranieri has made mistakes this season, nobody is saying otherwise but Kante leaving has been devastating and his replacement has been sidelined all season. We don't know that three in the middle would have produced any better results. We don't know that by sacking him we will get better. He will deal with this in the transfer window and we will improve. I have no fears over relegation, that is why I back Ranieri to the hilt. We aren't even in the bottom three and haven't been all season, despite being no where near our full level. Give the guy a break, get behind them on Saturday and be supporters. You actually should. We lost against two of the worsts. I consider that Hull already took their one way ticket to the Championship but certainly refuse to write off Sunderland or even Swansea, now that they got rid of Baldley. There are still 2 free seats and we belong to the potential candidates, like it or not. The "too good to go down" mindset is exactly what lead to this situation. Best example is Newcastle last season. The performances aren't getting any better. On the contrary. The 4-4-2 was problematic away, it seems now that it doesn't work either at home. We're losing vital points and the next games aren't easy. So either they put themselves together and realize hat the dogfight has already begun or we're in for a quite nerve wracking end of season.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.