RumbleFox Posted 29 December 2016 Author Share Posted 29 December 2016 1 hour ago, Col city fan said: @RumbleFox and @Swan Lesta You know I love you both but you are really saying what I've been saying. If you REALLY read. I've made one main point over the weekend, in another thread. That being, don't be too quick to write-off our summer signings (I don't think Amartey was a summer signing, wasn't he last Jan?) until we see them in a good team. Rather than the usual Neanderthal responses of Musa is 'shite', what a waste of money and alll that gubbins, I'm suggesting he isn't, and that if he was playing in a free-flowing, confident side, we'd see a different player. The same goes for Slimani in my opinion, although he's older of course. Ive also made the point, time and time again, that I feel sorry for Amartey. He's been thrown into the mix far too quickly IMO, and even then, played in a 442 where he's not at his most comfortable. So, yes, I've made it clear, I don't think he's yet good enough to be a regular first team starter (and the same goes with King) but he's had to be because we've been left very short in the CM area. That's not been fair either on the player, or the team. Secondly, this thing about throwing in the youngsters 'to build for the future', can either be done very well or very badly. Ferguson did it extremely well at Utd. He built his squads on getting the right seasoned professionals into the teams, and then introducing the youngsters to play around them, to gain confidence from them and to learn from them. This worked, as we all know, amazingly well. Clough was a master of it. Introducing the likes of Colin Todd to the Derby side at exactly the time he needed to (aided of course by Taylor), to be the quality player amidst a growing and improving number of up and coming talent. Now then.....look at how WE'VE done this. How anyone can suggest it can be a good thing to be playing young Amartey in a side which go away from home like we've done this season, to get absolutely battered, is beyond me. How can if be good for confidence to go to Man Utd and to Liverpool and to get completely outclassed, shipping in four goals a time? Our summer recruitment has been imbalanced. We've gone for lots of strikers when we should have gotten a class central midfielder and a very good young centre back to fill-in and to learn from Wes and Huth. The class, experienced centre mid could have taught Amartey about positioning, for example, and he could have come into the side, intially for cup games and then for injuries. I don't argue particularly with the OP. I'm all for developing talent (though not in the @Thracian ) mould. But it's got to be done well, gradually and properly. I don't think we've done it well at all. And that's probably why we are where we are, as in, flirting with relegation and leaking goals like a bloody sieve. Finally, our more experienced players have to hold their bloody hands up as well. The likes of Mahrez and Wes have been shocking and compared to last season, look completely different players. They need to take a hard look at themselves and start putting fookin shifts in. If they are to be role models to the young lads, they have to start showing it. Hi Col. I actually think we both agree, none of my comments in the original post were aimed at you and I agree with pretty much all of your points (I am just more positive sounding than you! haha). I was really just getting at the folks that seem to enjoy criticising very young players and pointing out that many of them are bought for the future and just because they take a while to settle in or even feature in the first team does not mean that they are a failure. I genuinely cannot see how it helps to start calling people a waste of money before they have been given time. As others have pointed out, there was a time when many people on here would gladly have sold Vardy, Drinkwater and maybe chosen Knockaert over Mahrez. Different people take different times to settle in. You always put things in a reasoned manner and even when I disagree at least you explain things. I agree, this season we have thrown certain players in far too early which has not helped them or the team. Last season Amartey and Grey both featured in cameos in games we were winning and they both looked very good. I imagine that was the plan this year but Kante/injuries/bad luck/not enough transfer activity, etc. messed that up a bit. It is just all this "these kids wont save us" nonsense when we sign a youngster or the borderline racist "fed up of signing foreigners" talk. I doubt we are signing these "foreign kids" to save our season, they are being signed in a strategy (not one without risk but also not one without potential reward) to help move the club forwards in the long term and they should not really be the ones singled out for criticism. Where we have failed is not signing older, more experienced players but I feel this should be ALONGSIDE the youngsters not instead of them. Anyway, I think we agree on most things and here's hoping Ndidi is literally the greatest player on Earth!! Rumble. X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adejo92 Posted 29 December 2016 Share Posted 29 December 2016 4 hours ago, The Doctor said: You wouldn't lose sleep if we lost one of the few who've kept their game up, and who if we lost would leave us with a 19 year old kid with one PL appearance under his belt and Jeff schlupp as our LB options until we managed to find an alternative (assuming we got one in at all)? If that's actually the case then I'd suggest you're going well overboard. Loose sleep? i would have night mares if we were left with Jeff Schlupp. I wouldn't want to loose any without replacements else we wouldn't have a team. I just think its obvious Mahrez doesn't want to be here and Fuchs was going to leave for this season but decided to renew for another season. I am not going to be too stubbern to go back on what i have said because having said that, i would probably add Fuchs to the ones i wouldn't want to loose. Mahrez can go, you can tell his passion has gone, he's only interested in his pay slip now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyrobot Posted 29 December 2016 Share Posted 29 December 2016 8 hours ago, RumbleFox said: Morning. There seem to be a lot of people on here posting about their belief that we should be signing players ready for the first team straight away and most folk are completely reasonable in their thinking but some tend to go a wee bit far and start crying every time we sign someone unknown or under the age of 21. It seems obvious to me, but hardly noted on here, that Claudio (and his team) have been given the remit of building for the future and setting the club up for progression in the long term. If you take last year out of the equation we are clearly slowly working on an upwards trajectory and buying young promising players must have been decided upon as part of the long term plan. Obviously part of the plan HAS to be that we stay up this year and I agree that we do need a signing or two that can have an instant effect on the team but it does not mean we should write off promising youngsters before they even sign just because it may take a wee while. I honestly think that players like Amartey, Chilwell, Grey, Kapustka, N'didi, even Musa and Mendy at 24 all have the potential to be Premier League players and I cannot see how writing them off does anyone any good. None of us thought that many of last year's team would ever be Premier League winners so you have to give people time. Amartey I feel for, thrown in due to injuries in a position he was not really even bought for and he gets slated on here because he is not as good as Kante, one of the best players in the world in said position. Even if he clearly does need work it is hardly his fault. The blame should lie with Claudio if anyone but even he I feel should be given more slack. Alongside the youngsters which were clearly never meant to be an immediate fixture in the line up, we tried to sign a number of players in the summer that would have had a more immediate effect (Keane, Silva, etc) and were not able to bring them in. The player that we had signed to go straight into the midfield also sustained a long term injury so we were forced to utilise the younger players that had only really been bought in as ones for the future anyway. Now whether that is Claudio's fault or our recruitment team, none of us know and certainly none of us has the authority to know exactly what happened and start calling for anyone's head. It seems to me like a mixture of bad luck and maybe not quite realising the effect Kante's departure would have. Clearly we were going to be worse without him but I don't think anyone realised just how much of a difference he would make. Anyway, I know this is a forum and we are all entitled to our views and we certainly need to change some things and Claudio does indeed seem to be a little stubborn in his tactics but if anyone has earned the right to be given another transfer window and a bit of time then it is him. We have no divine right to win the league, or even be in it. We all feel a bit annoyed because it felt like last season's miracle might enable us to kick on and move forwards and many feel that it was a missed opportunity but I think it looks like this season was about buying some young promising players, doing as well as we could in the Champions League and simply surviving in the Premiership (whether this is true and, if so, whether it comes from Top or Claudio who knows). This may not turn out to be wise but if we manage to survive this year and have a wee run in the Champions League I genuinely think we will be in a better place next season than we were before last season which has to be the aim. Anyway, let's all hope we start winning a few games and that (alongside the young promising players who may need time and patience) we manage to bring someone in who can have a more positive immediate effect. Up the Foxes. Rumble. X Most fans don't write the young lads off, in fact many of us call for game time for Kaputska, Mendy, Gray , Musa and Benny C. If they are good enough then they're old enough. Still don't get how we can have a midfielder who stood out for Poland in the euros but isn't ready for even the bench at 1st team level. As for Amartey, I don't get the hate if there is any - he's been head and shoulders above King in their partnership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted 29 December 2016 Share Posted 29 December 2016 I think it is risky planning for the future before taking care of the here and now. Mike Ashley had a transfer policy at Newcastle - no over 25s. The plan being that they would develop talent and increase their value at the club and look what happened to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted 29 December 2016 Share Posted 29 December 2016 9 hours ago, Col city fan said: @RumbleFox and @Swan Lesta You know I love you both but you are really saying what I've been saying. If you REALLY read. I've made one main point over the weekend, in another thread. That being, don't be too quick to write-off our summer signings (I don't think Amartey was a summer signing, wasn't he last Jan?) until we see them in a good team. Rather than the usual Neanderthal responses of Musa is 'shite', what a waste of money and alll that gubbins, I'm suggesting he isn't, and that if he was playing in a free-flowing, confident side, we'd see a different player. The same goes for Slimani in my opinion, although he's older of course. Ive also made the point, time and time again, that I feel sorry for Amartey. He's been thrown into the mix far too quickly IMO, and even then, played in a 442 where he's not at his most comfortable. So, yes, I've made it clear, I don't think he's yet good enough to be a regular first team starter (and the same goes with King) but he's had to be because we've been left very short in the CM area. That's not been fair either on the player, or the team. Secondly, this thing about throwing in the youngsters 'to build for the future', can either be done very well or very badly. Ferguson did it extremely well at Utd. He built his squads on getting the right seasoned professionals into the teams, and then introducing the youngsters to play around them, to gain confidence from them and to learn from them. This worked, as we all know, amazingly well. Clough was a master of it. Introducing the likes of Colin Todd to the Derby side at exactly the time he needed to (aided of course by Taylor), to be the quality player amidst a growing and improving number of up and coming talent. Now then.....look at how WE'VE done this. How anyone can suggest it can be a good thing to be playing young Amartey in a side which go away from home like we've done this season, to get absolutely battered, is beyond me. How can if be good for confidence to go to Man Utd and to Liverpool and to get completely outclassed, shipping in four goals a time? Our summer recruitment has been imbalanced. We've gone for lots of strikers when we should have gotten a class central midfielder and a very good young centre back to fill-in and to learn from Wes and Huth. The class, experienced centre mid could have taught Amartey about positioning, for example, and he could have come into the side, intially for cup games and then for injuries. I don't argue particularly with the OP. I'm all for developing talent (though not in the @Thracian ) mould. But it's got to be done well, gradually and properly. I don't think we've done it well at all. And that's probably why we are where we are, as in, flirting with relegation and leaking goals like a bloody sieve. Finally, our more experienced players have to hold their bloody hands up as well. The likes of Mahrez and Wes have been shocking and compared to last season, look completely different players. They need to take a hard look at themselves and start putting fookin shifts in. If they are to be role models to the young lads, they have to start showing it. Sorry Col, I stopped reading at 'REALLY' as I don't need your assistance in understanding emphasis on your wording and sentence structure Seriously though and in all truth though you have been banging on about the midfield (particularly DM's for years in most threads) though whilst I have been trying to give newer players time I seem to remember you really having a pop at Demarai Gray early in the season (I was worried he was going to be your victim of this season) and when I called for time and patience a month back calling me basically a happy clapper and implying I'm an underreacting merry old positivist with my glass on the greater side of half full.... Now I have got that off my chest what you are saying about our midfield has been pretty much on the money - and I also think you make good points about the way to build an U23 side for the future....and that we are going about it at a rapid rate but perhaps not ideally. Ive always stuck up for every one of our newer faces mainly because I believe in giving people time (I was ready to sell Vardy when we were in the Championship and have learnt from it) though most of my rants are at morons on this forum who abuse our players rather than offer any constructive opinion or feedback unlike your good self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filbert_Ross Posted 30 December 2016 Share Posted 30 December 2016 Can't believe how many people on foxestalk don't know the difference between 'lose' & 'loose' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumbleFox Posted 30 December 2016 Author Share Posted 30 December 2016 15 minutes ago, Filbert_Ross said: Can't believe how many people on foxestalk don't know the difference between 'lose' & 'loose' Calm down, don't loose your rag. X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filbertway Posted 30 December 2016 Share Posted 30 December 2016 10 minutes ago, RumbleFox said: Calm down, don't loose your rag. X Both posts get a thumbs up from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 30 December 2016 Share Posted 30 December 2016 18 hours ago, Swan Lesta said: Sorry Col, I stopped reading at 'REALLY' as I don't need your assistance in understanding emphasis on your wording and sentence structure Seriously though and in all truth though you have been banging on about the midfield (particularly DM's for years in most threads) though whilst I have been trying to give newer players time I seem to remember you really having a pop at Demarai Gray early in the season (I was worried he was going to be your victim of this season) and when I called for time and patience a month back calling me basically a happy clapper and implying I'm an underreacting merry old positivist with my glass on the greater side of half full.... Now I have got that off my chest what you are saying about our midfield has been pretty much on the money - and I also think you make good points about the way to build an U23 side for the future....and that we are going about it at a rapid rate but perhaps not ideally. Ive always stuck up for every one of our newer faces mainly because I believe in giving people time (I was ready to sell Vardy when we were in the Championship and have learnt from it) though most of my rants are at morons on this forum who abuse our players rather than offer any constructive opinion or feedback unlike your good self. Cmon Nick...I was never REALLY having a pop at Gray! I said his final product needs big improvement. It does! It's his biggest weakness in his game. REALLY... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 30 December 2016 Share Posted 30 December 2016 I'm not ready yet...To read the first post, it's well too long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 30 December 2016 Share Posted 30 December 2016 8 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said: I'm not ready yet...To read the first post, it's well too long Cmon mate...make an effort... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 30 December 2016 Share Posted 30 December 2016 Just now, Col city fan said: Cmon mate...make an effort... Ive wasted enough time watching shit football, im beginning these days to value my time, but if you say so Col and on Cattermoles life I will read it between hollyoaks and EastEnders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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