Our system detected that your browser is blocking advertisements on our site. Please help support FoxesTalk by disabling any kind of ad blocker while browsing this site. Thank you.
Jump to content
 Share
DJ Barry Hammond

Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

By DJ Barry Hammond, in General Chat

Recommended Posts

Strokes

Strokes

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Any chance you'd be willing to post how much you get paid? It's fine if you don't want to no pressure.

 

I just personally find it difficult to understand how some of these people are struggling so bad on the wages they're on. There was that report a few weeks a go that said 1 in 10 police officers said they couldn't afford essentials. Not luxuries, literally essential items they need for survival. How is that even possible when the starting wage is £19k~/year? That is significantly higher than my minimum wage brother/PT minimum wage sister-in-law, yet they get by fine.

 

I'm not saying you don't deserve a payrise, or the police, or anybody for that matter. Just struggle to see how people "live within their means" and can't afford essentials on such wages, wages that are generally higher than the private sector.

My wife is a bank nurse although she does fixed shift on a particular ward and is specialist trained. She does 23 hours a week and then one additional Sunday (12hours) every other weekend for 26k a year.

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, toddybad said:

The tories are voting it through holding their noses. Tories have been talking to journos all over the place. Wait til it hits the committees. For what it's worth, this bill should be defeated. 

Any evidence for this?  I don't doubt they'll be a few more amendments for the third reading, but I'll be amazed if it doesn't pass the house when you have a handful of Labour MP's voting for it and probably 15-20 abstaining.

 

You are going to need 30 Tory rebels and that's not happening.

Innovindil

Innovindil

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, toddybad said:

I'm not going to post my salary no.

I will say i get paid above the national average.

I guess everybody's position is different. I don't have a partner to share costs so that clearly doesn't help. 

7 years ago i had no debt. The debt accrued initially - and this is true - to cover the high cost bills of council tax and car insurance. I have cut back my lifestyle hugely over those 7 years and literally can't remember when i went out on the piss or went to a decent restaurant - it hasn't happened im those 7 years.  Over time the debt grew on basics but the debt itself became a huge issue. I'm at the point where i genuinally don't think i can ever get out of the debt and I'll never be able to pay into the pension or own my own home. Clearly this all impacts upon my politics quite heavily.

I'll be fair and say that the public sector cap isn't 100% to blame for this. Although i literally spend next to nothing on anything, one or two unavoidable costs i have don't help but the underlying fact is we get **** all thanks pay wise whilst being expected to do more and more with less and less. That is pretty much how the entire public sector currently feels. 

So you're pulling >£26k/year yet are in debt?

 

You really might need to assess life choices, maybe see citizens advice, you seem to be getting robbed tbh.

Izzy

Izzy

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, toddybad said:

I'm not going to post my salary no.

I will say i get paid above the national average.

I guess everybody's position is different. I don't have a partner to share costs so that clearly doesn't help. 

7 years ago i had no debt. The debt accrued initially - and this is true - to cover the high cost bills of council tax and car insurance. I have cut back my lifestyle hugely over those 7 years and literally can't remember when i went out on the piss or went to a decent restaurant - it hasn't happened im those 7 years.  Over time the debt grew on basics but the debt itself became a huge issue. I'm at the point where i genuinally don't think i can ever get out of the debt and I'll never be able to pay into the pension or own my own home. Clearly this all impacts upon my politics quite heavily.

I'll be fair and say that the public sector cap isn't 100% to blame for this. Although i literally spend next to nothing on anything, one or two unavoidable costs i have don't help but the underlying fact is we get **** all thanks pay wise whilst being expected to do more and more with less and less. That is pretty much how the entire public sector currently feels. 

You seem like a bright chap to me and I'm sure you've got loads of skills and talents.

 

I've no idea how old you are but I assume you have career ambitions and aspirations?

 

Even in the public sector, I'm guessing there are opportunities to progress and climb the ladder? 

 

A better job with better pay would mean you could start clearing your debt, pay into a pension, buy your own home etc.

 

Tory thinking I know, but maybe worth considering :thumbup:

 

Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, MattP said:

Any evidence for this?  I don't doubt they'll be a few more amendments for the third reading, but I'll be amazed if it doesn't pass the house when you have a handful of Labour MP's voting for it and probably 15-20 abstaining.

 

You are going to need 30 Tory rebels and that's not happening.

I expect it to pass. But there are loads of media sources talking about what mps are saying privately. Clearly the bill needs to ensure parliamentary scrutiny over all decisions. Brexiteers should understand the need to bring power to parliament over a cabal seeking additional powers through the back door. 

 

6 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

So you're pulling >£26k/year yet are in debt?

 

You really might need to assess life choices, maybe see citizens advice, you seem to be getting robbed tbh.

I have a child so have to pay maintenance and keep a home large enough for us both. As i said, everybody has their own stories. I could afford this 7 years ago and now i can't. 

 

Maybe you should be less ****ing judgemental.

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted

Blimey @toddybad I can't really talk given the money I've blown over the years but I don't understand how you can earn over 2k a month and not have any money left for things you enjoy or the odd night out.

 

Do you live in London?

Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

You seem like a bright chap to me and I'm sure you've got loads of skills and talents.

 

I've no idea how old you are but I assume you have career ambitions and aspirations?

 

Even in the public sector, I'm guessing there are opportunities to progress and climb the ladder? 

 

A better job with better pay would mean you could start clearing your debt, pay into a pension, buy your own home etc.

 

Tory thinking I know, but maybe worth considering :thumbup:

 

Cuts have hollowed out middle management across the service. I have progressed as far as i can atm given that everything is being cut to try to keep services going. 

Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
Just now, MattP said:

Blimey @toddybad I can't really talk given the money I've blown over the years but I don't understand how you can earn over 2k a month and not have any money left for things you enjoy or the odd night out.

 

Do you live in London?

I don't really want this to turn into a let's talk about toddybad's debt thread. It isn't something i like to think about let alone talk about. It's destroyed the last few years as it is.

 

At the start i could afford extras. Now i can't. Debt repayment is now larger than rent. Not much else to add.

Innovindil

Innovindil

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, toddybad said:

I expect it to pass. But there are loads of media sources talking about what mps are saying privately. Clearly the bill needs to ensure parliamentary scrutiny over all decisions. Brexiteers should understand the need to bring power to parliament over a cabal seeking additional powers through the back door. 

 

I have a child so have to pay maintenance and keep a home large enough for us both. As i said, everybody has their own stories. I could afford this 7 years ago and now i can't. 

 

Maybe you should be less ****ing judgemental.

More disbelief than judgmental in all honesty.

 

 

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, toddybad said:

I don't really want this to turn into a let's talk about toddybad's debt thread. It isn't something i like to think about let alone talk about. It's destroyed the last few years as it is.

 

At the start i could afford extras. Now i can't. Debt repayment is now larger than rent. Not much else to add.

No problem, I understand, I've had the same issues myself. I do hope you can try and sort it out as quickly as possible, best of luck.

Strokes

Strokes

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Cuts have hollowed out middle management across the service. I have progressed as far as i can atm given that everything is being cut to try to keep services going. 

What hours do you do, is there no sideline/hobby you can run to put a bit extra in the back burner?

When my business went tits up in 2011, I had to get a job in a warehouse as the wife banned me from self employed work because I wouldn't sleep. I was barely earning 1k a month and was on my knees, it was awful. I just kept taking extra shifts until I could afford the money to tie my qualifications up. I was lucky that my wife has a decent job and money was bearable but I can definitely see how 2k wouldn't be enough to live on.

I hope you get past it :thumbup:

Edited by Strokes
  • Like 1
Strokes

Strokes

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, MattP said:

No problem, I understand, I've had the same issues myself. I do hope you can try and sort it out as quickly as possible, best of luck.

The main issue is debt rather than earnings, I made a lot of mistakes when I was a young adult that wrecked my credit ratings. It turned out to be a blessing really, although it's far from perfect now (my credit rating) I've never really been able to take out huge loans etc, so I think I'm only about 2k in credit cards. So many people I know that earn more than me have 20k+ on credit cards and don't even bat an eyelid at it.

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill passes Second Reading 326-290.

 

That's pretty comfortable in the end.

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted

7 Labour MPs voted for Second Reading:

 

Ronnie Campbell, Frank Field, Kate Hoey, Kelvin Hopkins, John Mann, Dennis Skinner, Graham Stringer

 

Dennis Skinner voted with the Tories, wow.

Guest Kopfkino

Guest Kopfkino

Posted
Posted (edited)

Labour MPs that defied the whip and voted with the government:

Ronnie Campbell 

Frank Field

Kate Hoey

Kelvin Hopkins

John Mann

Dennis Skinner

Graham Stringer 

 

Caroline Flint abstained in the end

 

Edit: Matt was too quick and probably not for the first time in his life

Edited by KingGTF
Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted

Always liked Dennis Skinner, top bloke lol

Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

Exactly what my wife said this morning lol 

 

 

 

Where did you think I'd got it from? ;)

  • Like 1
The Floyd

The Floyd

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, MattP said:

I don't have a subscription to the FT can you copy and paste please.

Dennis Skinner, the British parliamentarian and Labour MP for the constituency of Bolsover in northern England since 1970, is something of a cult figure. He is cherished for his aggressive interventions, scalding humour and uncompromising leftwing position.

 

Now the subject of a new feature-film documentary, Dennis Skinner: The Nature of the Beast, Mr Skinner is a clear example of a particular sort of orator doing a particular sort of politics.

 

If you Google “Dennis Skinner best speeches” most of the top results are listicles of his “top heckles” and “best outbursts”. In a parliamentary system, the set-piece speech primarily belongs to those who propose, but there is a more aggressive and mobile form of oratory that serves those who oppose. Mr Skinner — affectionately known as “the Beast of Bolsover” — has spent a lifetime in opposition.

 

Though he is often thought of as a relic, you could say The Beast’s way of being has never been more current. Today’s identity politics is concerned with ideological purity and self-identification with a particular set of class (or race, or sex-politics) interests. It rejects the managerial, compromise politics of the Washington and Westminster (or Brussels, or Paris) establishments. As Mr Skinner’s career shows, that is not new.

 

Here is a man whose political foundation is one of identity. A working-class native of Derbyshire, Mr Skinner describes early in the film that “by the age of six or seven […] I knew enough to know which side of the fence I were on”.

 

That was the making of an old-style socialist. Despite winning a scholarship to what he calls a “high-grade school”, the young Mr Skinner decided to get a job “in t’pit”, where he found “a solidarity you can’t buy anywhere else”.

 

Class solidarity is his animating political principle, first as trade-unionist and then as MP. His ethos — his appeal to his constituency — has always been: I am one of you, and I will have no truck with them.

 

He boasts of having stuck to three self-imposed rules. The first: “Not to pair [a UK convention in which MPs likely to vote on opposing sides can agree that, if one won’t be able to vote, the other won’t either] with the Tories or other parties — like going to the pit; if you were not there you didn’t get paid.”

 

The second: “Not to go in the bars [in the House of Commons]. That’s where rightwing journalists hang about looking for stories.”

 

The third: “I took the decision not to go on all-party trips anywhere. The thought of being on an all-party trip with Tories or the Lib-Dems or people from the House of Lords appals me.”

 

Offered a job by the then Labour prime minister, James Callaghan, he refused outright: “That’s what patronage is, and I don’t want any part of it. And I never have in the 40-odd years I’ve been here.”

 

So, no compromise; no socialising; a conscious refusal of the prospect of promotion. That has largely restricted him to heckling and wrecking.

He recalls in the film his greatest triumph as having been to see off the union-busting 1971 Industrial Relations Act. “That was real power,” he says. “There hasn’t been another instance like it in my lifetime.”

 

And about a subsequent defeat, the 1980s miners’ strike, he was still angry in 2014. “If the deputies, who had a 70 per cent ballot including in Nottinghamshire, had used that ballot, we would have won. If there had been a second front of the dockers that lasted not for a week but for a month, we would have won. “If Mrs Thatcher had not got the oil from Gaddafi — yes, Gaddafi. She begged Gaddafi to sell her more oil. Just think about it. That combination in the tent. God almighty. If that had not happened, we would have won.”

 

Finger-jabbing, red-of-face, and fiery of rhetoric — admire that three-part symploce: “If x . . . we would have won; if y . . . we would have won; if z . . . we would have won” — there is the real nature of The Beast.

 

Mr Skinner is a master of a narrow set of oratorical moves: not the end-run, so much as the crunching tackle. He is a provocateur, an aficionado of the political insult, and a deliberate violator of decorum.

 

He prides himself on having once filibustered out an attempt by the late Enoch Powell to restrict stem-cell research. He awards his intervention the compliment: “Disruptive but constructive.”

 

What may perhaps strike him as odd is that, in the age through which we are now living, his unflinching, identity-based aggression, rather than condemning a politician to permanent opposition, now seems to be the royal road to high office.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...