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DJ Barry Hammond

Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

By DJ Barry Hammond, in General Chat

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Strokes said:

It's quite cute tbf, probably the shittest protest I've ever seen.

It's tragic people are still so upset about an election they go to a wonderful patriotic cultural event to wave the flag of an organisation they want to be subservient to.

 

Can we try for a bit of balance in this thread as well? 6 links to the Guardian on the last page, becoming a bit of a joke.

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Yeah @toddybad post a link to a newspaper that doesn't back up your arguement, you know for balance. lol

Do you really not think someone would have said something if me and Webbo had posted six links to the Daily Mail in one page? Of course they would and quite rightly so.

Jimothy

Jimothy

Posted
Posted
Just now, MattP said:

Do you really not think someone would have said something if me and Webbo had posted six links to the Daily Mail in one page? Of course they would and quite rightly so.

Maybe, but you're not, and then moaning nobody is. You want balance then add it yourself.

  • Like 3
Rincewind

Rincewind

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, toddybad said:

At what point can government ministers be found personally culpable?

 

Britain flouting duty to protect citizens from toxic air pollution – UN

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/10/uk-flouting-duty-to-cut-air-pollution-deaths-says-un-human-rights-report?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

The point of no return like the restaurant at the end of the universe. :)

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
48 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Maybe, but you're not, and then moaning nobody is. You want balance then add it yourself.

I have no interest living in an echo chamber and just reading things like the Mail all day.

 

Hence why I always try and quote from something like the Times. 

Jimothy

Jimothy

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, MattP said:

I have no interest living in an echo chamber and just reading things like the Mail all day.

 

Hence why I always try and quote from something like the Times. 

So you want balance, but you don't want balance because you don't even read the equivalent of the Guardian anyway. I agree he probably does post too many guardian articles, actually probably links too many articles full stop, but that's his style, debunk them, dismiss them and move on. If you're not prepared to balance it by posting the ying to his yang then I can't see your reason to complain. Otherwise just ignore them or him altogether surely.

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

So you want balance, but you don't want balance because you don't even read the equivalent of the Guardian anyway. I agree he probably does post too many guardian articles, actually probably links too many articles full stop, but that's his style, debunk them, dismiss them and move on. If you're not prepared to balance it by posting the ying to his yang then I can't see your reason to complain. Otherwise just ignore them or him altogether surely.

So you actually agree with me really, that's good.

Strokes

Strokes

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

So you want balance, but you don't want balance because you don't even read the equivalent of the Guardian anyway. I agree he probably does post too many guardian articles, actually probably links too many articles full stop, but that's his style, debunk them, dismiss them and move on. If you're not prepared to balance it by posting the ying to his yang then I can't see your reason to complain. Otherwise just ignore them or him altogether surely.

I don't read them unless they're copied into the post.

Hope not hate.

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted

Caroline Flint just confirmed on Today she'll vote against Labour whip tonight for the first time in her life.

 

Always liked her.

Captain...

Captain...

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 9/8/2017 at 14:43, Swan Lesta said:

So.

 

Back to the unanswered question.

 

What is (or even should be) the threshold for somebody not being fit for public office because they have disclosed publicly private beliefs?

 

It can not be as simplistic as to state that holders of a public office can harbour any belief they like and make it public that they hold said belief and keep their job - where is the threshold and is this threshold somewhat different if the belief has religious foundations?

 

What would a belief publicly disclosed look like that would cause a removal from office because of party compromise or public outcry?

 

 


At the risk of re-opening this debate, I will throw my opinion in. No view is so abhorrent to automatically make someone unfit for public office. People can put themselves forwards for election on any set of views and if they are voted in as an MP then it doesn't matter how abhorrent those views are, they have been chosen by the people to represent them on the back of those views.  If Nick Griffin got elected (imagine a world of proportional representation in 2005 BNP got 0.7% of the votes which would have been 4 seats) then he represents that proportion of the country that share his views and shouldn't be kicked out of office.

 

JRM is a different case as he was elected before these views were widely known, but they are probably no great surprise to anyone. His campaign was not one of free abortions and gay marriage for all, so he didn't lie. His views are not directly at odds with the political party he stands for and the manifesto they ran on, so I don't think there are grounds to have him removed from office, even if the Tory party don't want to be associated with them. I don't believe he lied or conned the electorate, his voting record was there for scrutiny at the last GE, so I don't see him being forced from office. The only option would be for the Tory party to expel him from office, but this still doesn't mean he isn't fit for office, just not fit for the Conservatives and will still be an independent MP and can still be re-elected. What makes someone unfit for office is not the nature of their views, but severe misrepresentation of their genuine views and opinions in a general election campaign.

 

What will be interesting is the next GE where we see if his opponents target his views and the views of other Tory MPs and whether that costs him his seat. Then we will see if his views are fit for office or not, and that is how we should decide, through democratic process and not media lynch mobs. There are obviously still flaws in this process as the constituents of North East Somerset will have a choice between JRM who will most likely represent the majority of their views better than the Labour or Lib Dem alternative, even if they strongly disagree with some of them.

 

Edited by Captain...
  • Like 2
Strokes

Strokes

Posted
Posted
Just now, MattP said:

Caroline Flint just confirmed on Today she'll vote against Labour whip tonight for the first time in her life.

 

Always liked her.

I just hope it goes through and then any concessions are made later. Otherwise this whole thing will collapse.

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I just hope it goes through and then any concessions are made later. Otherwise this whole thing will collapse.

I dont see any problem tonight, final reading could still be a problem though.

 

Obviously the bigger the win tonight the easier that will be.

Jimothy

Jimothy

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, MattP said:

So you actually agree with me really, that's good.

In the sense he posts too many articles yes, but not the moaning about balance part if you're not prepared to post that balance yourself, nor read what would be classed as a publication that balances out the Guardian. It's like listening to a football phone in and moaning the never have Leicester fans call in but then never call in yourself.

Edited by Facecloth
Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, MattP said:

 

 

Can we try for a bit of balance in this thread as well? 6 links to the Guardian on the last page, becoming a bit of a joke.

 

lol 

 

A)  You don't have to follow the link. 

B) If you want balance - provide it. 

  • Like 1
Strokes

Strokes

Posted
Posted (edited)

So it's turns out I know a guy that worked for the company responsible for maintaining the fire alarm at Grenfell towers, i cant say too much just yet because i need to be sure my information is correct but two engineers have apparently been sacked and interogated by scotland yard for allegedly falsifying test results. 

Edited by Strokes
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