Guest Posted 9 September 2017 Posted 9 September 2017 1 hour ago, MattP said: I regret that statement, in my opinion its naive, ridiculous and dangerous to get rid of our nuclear weapons in the current climate but I shouldn't have called the view repugnant, I apologise and withdraw it. I'm impressed mattp We're having a right old love in on here the last 2 days me, you and webbo, aren't we?
Guest Posted 9 September 2017 Posted 9 September 2017 The folly of the privatisation of educating exposed once more. Imagine how bad a true market would be without the state being there to support the system. Failing academy trust to pull out of 21 schools https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/sep/09/failing-academy-trust-to-pull-out-of-21-schools?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
Buce Posted 9 September 2017 Posted 9 September 2017 23 minutes ago, toddybad said: I'm impressed mattp We're having a right old love in on here the last 2 days me, you and webbo, aren't we? Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible.
Guest MattP Posted 9 September 2017 Posted 9 September 2017 9 minutes ago, Buce said: Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible. I'm sure it will when we get to policy difference. But I'm delighted decent people from all sides come together to defend free speech, that's something that makes the country great.
Nick Posted 9 September 2017 Posted 9 September 2017 1 hour ago, MattP said: I'm sure it will when we get to policy difference. But I'm delighted decent people from all sides come together to defend free speech, that's something that makes the country great. ?
Guest Posted 9 September 2017 Posted 9 September 2017 Nobody mentioned this so i will. Not good for the tories. Very good for labour. https://www.conservativehome.com/localgovernment/2017/09/council-by-election-results-from-yesterday-126.html
Realist Guy In The Room Posted 9 September 2017 Posted 9 September 2017 4 hours ago, toddybad said: Nobody mentioned this so i will. Not good for the tories. Very good for labour. https://www.conservativehome.com/localgovernment/2017/09/council-by-election-results-from-yesterday-126.html When it was the other way around, the media were all over Labour. I'm no lover of the Labour party but for this to hardly have a mention is pretty odd.
Strokes Posted 9 September 2017 Posted 9 September 2017 24 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said: When it was the other way around, the media were all over Labour. I'm no lover of the Labour party but for this to hardly have a mention is pretty odd. That's because it was unprecedented for a sitting government to makes gains on the opposition. This is more of a return to the norm.
Guest Posted 10 September 2017 Posted 10 September 2017 The more i think about it the more sure i am that we need a new economic model. Our tory friends might try to cling to neo liberalism but until 35 years ago the tories were not a party of neo liberalists. It seems to me that thatcher ended one political era and began one which (together with the Blair government) caused a generation to become hugely financially enriched (hence the current model having such devoted fans) but at the expense of the future. We now see the outcome that huge swathes or ordinary people becoming worse off with spiralling profits at elite level and the next generation entirely screwed. A new era is required (whether or not you think corbynomics represents what it should be). Two million UK families face £50-a-week cut in income https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/09/two-million-uk-families-face-50-pound-week-cut-income?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
Buce Posted 10 September 2017 Posted 10 September 2017 https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/09/austerity-nhs-public-sector-pay-benefits-winter-of-discontent
Guest Posted 10 September 2017 Posted 10 September 2017 31 minutes ago, Buce said: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/09/austerity-nhs-public-sector-pay-benefits-winter-of-discontent If there were any sense inn the world they'd be out of office within a year. Tbh in actually half want them to be the party finalising brexit as it will break them for a generation - in the same way the winter of discontent killed (true) labour. But then we might get a more sensible result without them.
Rincewind Posted 10 September 2017 Posted 10 September 2017 10 hours ago, Realist Guy In The Room said: When it was the other way around, the media were all over Labour. I'm no lover of the Labour party but for this to hardly have a mention is pretty odd. Did you not know there was more important news for the press to convey to the public? There's a royal sprog on the way. Yippee.
davieG Posted 10 September 2017 Posted 10 September 2017 Tony Blair wants tougher immigration rules for EU citizens 6 hours ago From the sectionUK Tony Blair has called on the government to introduce a new UK immigration policy which "reasserts control". When he was prime minister, his government - unlike most EU countries - did not apply transitional controls on migrants from eastern Europe. But in a Sunday Times article, he said "times were different" now, and all EU nationals should register on arrival and should already have a job offer. However, Mr Blair still opposes leaving the EU, saying it will be "painful". He says tougher immigration policies could "deal with the anxieties" that he says led to the Brexit vote - without the UK necessarily having to go through with it. 'Restrict healthcare' Under existing rules, citizens of other EU countries can be removed after six months if they have not found a job, have no realistic possibility of finding one, and require support from the welfare system. But the new report by Mr Blair's Institute for Global Change says EU nationals should already have an offer of work when they arrive. Those who didn't earn permission to stay would be banned from opening a bank account, renting a home or claiming benefits. The report also proposes restricting free healthcare for unemployed migrants and letting universities charge EU nationals higher tuition fees than British students. No restrictions a 'spectacular mistake' He argues his approach "reaches out to Leave voters to show their concerns are better met", without "the damage" he claims Brexit will do. And he acknowledges that his thinking has changed. "My government in 2004 did not invoke the transitional arrangements when eastern Europe joined the EU," he writes. "Back then the economy was strong, the workers were needed and actually the biggest annual numbers came post-2011. "But the real point is that the times were different; the sentiment was different; and intelligent politics takes account of such change." The co-chairman of the campaign group Leave Means Leave, Richard Tice, said Tony Blair's attempt to deny democracy would be seen for what it was. Downing Street declined to comment.
Guest MattP Posted 10 September 2017 Posted 10 September 2017 Absolutely unbelievable, the man who was part of a government that sent out search parties for immigrants now wants tougher laws. Blair is as responsible for the EU vote as anyone and he like so many still don't seem to grasp the organisation has no intention whatsoever of even discussing changes to freedom of movement.
Spiritwalker Posted 10 September 2017 Posted 10 September 2017 1 hour ago, davieG said: Tony Blair wants tougher immigration rules for EU citizens 6 hours ago From the sectionUK Tony Blair has called on the government to introduce a new UK immigration policy which "reasserts control". When he was prime minister, his government - unlike most EU countries - did not apply transitional controls on migrants from eastern Europe. But in a Sunday Times article, he said "times were different" now, and all EU nationals should register on arrival and should already have a job offer. However, Mr Blair still opposes leaving the EU, saying it will be "painful". He says tougher immigration policies could "deal with the anxieties" that he says led to the Brexit vote - without the UK necessarily having to go through with it. 'Restrict healthcare' Under existing rules, citizens of other EU countries can be removed after six months if they have not found a job, have no realistic possibility of finding one, and require support from the welfare system. But the new report by Mr Blair's Institute for Global Change says EU nationals should already have an offer of work when they arrive. Those who didn't earn permission to stay would be banned from opening a bank account, renting a home or claiming benefits. The report also proposes restricting free healthcare for unemployed migrants and letting universities charge EU nationals higher tuition fees than British students. No restrictions a 'spectacular mistake' He argues his approach "reaches out to Leave voters to show their concerns are better met", without "the damage" he claims Brexit will do. And he acknowledges that his thinking has changed. "My government in 2004 did not invoke the transitional arrangements when eastern Europe joined the EU," he writes. "Back then the economy was strong, the workers were needed and actually the biggest annual numbers came post-2011. "But the real point is that the times were different; the sentiment was different; and intelligent politics takes account of such change." The co-chairman of the campaign group Leave Means Leave, Richard Tice, said Tony Blair's attempt to deny democracy would be seen for what it was. Downing Street declined to comment. 1 hour ago, davieG said: Tony Blair wants tougher immigration rules for EU citizens 6 hours ago From the sectionUK Tony Blair has called on the government to introduce a new UK immigration policy which "reasserts control". When he was prime minister, his government - unlike most EU countries - did not apply transitional controls on migrants from eastern Europe. But in a Sunday Times article, he said "times were different" now, and all EU nationals should register on arrival and should already have a job offer. However, Mr Blair still opposes leaving the EU, saying it will be "painful". He says tougher immigration policies could "deal with the anxieties" that he says led to the Brexit vote - without the UK necessarily having to go through with it. 'Restrict healthcare' Under existing rules, citizens of other EU countries can be removed after six months if they have not found a job, have no realistic possibility of finding one, and require support from the welfare system. But the new report by Mr Blair's Institute for Global Change says EU nationals should already have an offer of work when they arrive. Those who didn't earn permission to stay would be banned from opening a bank account, renting a home or claiming benefits. The report also proposes restricting free healthcare for unemployed migrants and letting universities charge EU nationals higher tuition fees than British students. No restrictions a 'spectacular mistake' He argues his approach "reaches out to Leave voters to show their concerns are better met", without "the damage" he claims Brexit will do. And he acknowledges that his thinking has changed. "My government in 2004 did not invoke the transitional arrangements when eastern Europe joined the EU," he writes. "Back then the economy was strong, the workers were needed and actually the biggest annual numbers came post-2011. "But the real point is that the times were different; the sentiment was different; and intelligent politics takes account of such change." The co-chairman of the campaign group Leave Means Leave, Richard Tice, said Tony Blair's attempt to deny democracy would be seen for what it was. Downing Street declined to comment. Apparently Blair has met with Juncker so he may have been given encouragement that this is an option, but with the lack of a pro EU opposition and little public appetite for a u-turn I don't see this gaining any momentum. Ken Clarke gave a well balanced( slightly patronising) interview about Brexit on Sky News this morning.
Guest Posted 10 September 2017 Posted 10 September 2017 3 hours ago, MattP said: Absolutely unbelievable, the man who was part of a government that sent out search parties for immigrants now wants tougher laws. Blair is as responsible for the EU vote as anyone and he like so many still don't seem to grasp the organisation has no intention whatsoever of even discussing changes to freedom of movement. Apparently macron actually doesn't believe that freedom of movement is as central to the single market. If that is true perhaps there's a chance. Albeit i won't be getting excited until i see it in reality.
Guest MattP Posted 10 September 2017 Posted 10 September 2017 31 minutes ago, toddybad said: Apparently macron actually doesn't believe that freedom of movement is as central to the single market. If that is true perhaps there's a chance. Albeit i won't be getting excited until i see it in reality. Not going to change unless Germany does and we all know that's not happening. Macron probably isn't lasting long anyway, his approval ratings now are worse than Trump.
Guest Posted 10 September 2017 Posted 10 September 2017 2 minutes ago, MattP said: Not going to change unless Germany does and we all know that's not happening. Macron probably isn't lasting long anyway, his approval ratings now are worse than Trump. If it did happen. Would it be enough for you to think again?
Webbo Posted 10 September 2017 Posted 10 September 2017 5 minutes ago, toddybad said: If it did happen. Would it be enough for you to think again? Not for me. The vote was always more to do with self determination than immigration.
Guest Posted 10 September 2017 Posted 10 September 2017 1 hour ago, Webbo said: Not for me. The vote was always more to do with self determination than immigration. I expected that answer. We won't be self determinant even if brexit happens on your terms. It's impossible in the modern world. We would still have to adhere to EU regulations to sell to the EU. Any new free trsde deals with other nations will require us to sell goods meeting their regulations and will have a system for dealing with disputes that will involve supranational courts or similar being able to sanction the UK.
Webbo Posted 10 September 2017 Posted 10 September 2017 2 hours ago, toddybad said: I expected that answer. We won't be self determinant even if brexit happens on your terms. It's impossible in the modern world. We would still have to adhere to EU regulations to sell to the EU. Any new free trsde deals with other nations will require us to sell goods meeting their regulations and will have a system for dealing with disputes that will involve supranational courts or similar being able to sanction the UK. If we're selling to the EU then we'll follow EU regs, same as if we're selling to the US we'll follow their regs. That doesn't mean they can tell our fishermen how much they can catch, our farmers how much to grow or who we can deport. There's no comparison. 1
Guest MattP Posted 10 September 2017 Posted 10 September 2017 4 hours ago, toddybad said: If it did happen. Would it be enough for you to think again? No, the reason I voted to leave was to do our own trade deals and to give our courts supremacy again.
Buce Posted 10 September 2017 Posted 10 September 2017 Farage has got the hump again. https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/sep/10/eu-flags-at-last-night-of-the-proms-anger-farage
Sharpe's Fox Posted 10 September 2017 Posted 10 September 2017 imagine getting the hump about flags ffs. The only thing right about the right is that they are right on their arse
Strokes Posted 10 September 2017 Posted 10 September 2017 (edited) It's quite cute tbf, probably the shittest protest I've ever seen. Edited 10 September 2017 by Strokes
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