Popular Post Voll Blau Posted 13 December 2017 Popular Post Posted 13 December 2017 1 hour ago, Webbo said: So just let the parents off with their responsibilities? Yeah, that's clearly what I meant. You said "until there are consequences for their faults, some people will never change". Fine, you're right in some cases I'm sure. In this instance, the consequence is that the children are starving because the parents won't (or can't) feed them each morning. That is not the children's fault, but they're the ones suffering as a result. The determination to teach parents a lesson should never ever come above the welfare of the children, or history is just doomed to repeat itself over and over again. 6
Fox Ulike Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 2 minutes ago, Webbo said: I'm on a tablet ATM, I couldn't quote if I could find the source. Then retract your comment and stop saying things for which you've absolutely no evidence. It just skews what is a good debate and sends us off down blind alleys. Waste of time.
Fox Ulike Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 Just now, Voll Blau said: Yeah, that's clearly what I meant. You said "until there are consequences for their faults, some people will never change". Fine, you're right in some cases I'm sure. In this instance, the consequence is that the children are starving because the parents won't (or can't) feed them each morning. That is not the children's fault, but they're the ones suffering as a result. The determination to teach parents a lesson should never ever come above the welfare of the children, or history is just doomed to repeat itself over and over again. Boom. Sums up things better than I ever could.
Voll Blau Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 1 hour ago, Foxin_mad said: They are not going to STARVE though are they. A worst case scenario is they will be on free school meals so they will get a good meal each day at lunch. Whilst not ideal that will prevent them from actually starving. Yeah, sound. Because it is just the one good meal each day doctors have been telling us we need for fvcking donkeys' years - rather than the square three. Hungrier children make worse learners. Surely that's obvious to anyone?
Webbo Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 1 minute ago, Voll Blau said: Yeah, that's clearly what I meant. You said "until there are consequences for their faults, some people will never change". Fine, you're right in some cases I'm sure. In this instance, the consequence is that the children are starving because the parents won't (or can't) feed them each morning. That is not the children's fault, but they're the ones suffering as a result. The determination to teach parents a lesson should never ever come above the welfare of the children, or history is just doomed to repeat itself over and over again. I've no wish to see children suffer. I have some experience of a selfish parent myself, I just don't believe the solutions will help, in fact long term I think it'll make things worse. There are no easy answers in this.
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 4 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: What is the Government's job then? A very complicated one to explain. In my eyes the governments job is to: Provide laws and regulations Regulate the market Monitor the economy Oversee the provision of utilities and key services
Voll Blau Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 In other news, I see HFM are reporting Market Harborough (Market Fvcking Harborough FFS!) Foodbank have had 100 more people come to them for help in the past month, including 61 people under 18. Something's clearly very wrong when that's happening in one of the county's most affluent and growing towns.
Strokes Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 20 minutes ago, Webbo said: I'm sceptical about the effectiveness of education. We're all educated about smoking, unprotected sex, drinking, exercise and eating the wrong foods and yet all the problems associated with that bad behaviour are not noticeably decreasing. Until there are consequences for their faults then some people will never change. I think there is a clear difference between education and government warnings. You can’t help people who don’t want to be helped sure but you can help people who do and I do think this is an example of this. 1
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: Are they allowed to drink water in the morning? Or should they wait until they get home? I would imagine they can have a drink of water whenever they like. We are not some far left Socialist state like North Korea! Yet Edited 13 December 2017 by Foxin_mad
Webbo Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 11 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: Then retract your comment and stop saying things for which you've absolutely no evidence. It just skews what is a good debate and sends us off down blind alleys. Waste of time. Unpaid tax at record low 'Tax gap' fell to 6% in 2015 to 2016 as government cracks down on avoidance, evasion and non-compliance. The difference between the tax due and that collected by HMRC – known as the ‘tax gap’ – fell to a record low of 6% in 2015 to 2016, official statistics revealed today. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/unpaid-tax-at-record-low
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 5 minutes ago, Voll Blau said: Yeah, sound. Because it is just the one good meal each day doctors have been telling us we need for fvcking donkeys' years - rather than the square three. Hungrier children make worse learners. Surely that's obvious to anyone? Well I said its not idea but its better than nothing. This is the point here we can not do everything for everyone all of the time else we are very quickly going to run out of money. Its all very well the left saying yep we will help them, we will help them, we will help them, oh yes we will help them and them and them and put up wages for all of them. You help all of the people then realise its going to cost many billions of pounds that you don't have. It absolutely not the children fault they are in this position, the parents need help to change. If they wont change then the children need to be moved to live with a parent who will look after them properly.
Guest Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Webbo said: Unpaid tax at record low 'Tax gap' fell to 6% in 2015 to 2016 as government cracks down on avoidance, evasion and non-compliance. The difference between the tax due and that collected by HMRC – known as the ‘tax gap’ – fell to a record low of 6% in 2015 to 2016, official statistics revealed today. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/unpaid-tax-at-record-low If only we could get the self employed to declare their income and expenditure honestly we'd probably hit 100%. But can't have them paying their proper tax to help feed the hungry kids can we? Edited 13 December 2017 by Guest
Guest Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 4 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said: Well I said its not idea but its better than nothing. This is the point here we can not do everything for everyone all of the time else we are very quickly going to run out of money. Its all very well the left saying yep we will help them, we will help them, we will help them, oh yes we will help them and them and them and put up wages for all of them. You help all of the people then realise its going to cost many billions of pounds that you don't have. It absolutely not the children fault they are in this position, the parents need help to change. If they wont change then the children need to be moved to live with a parent who will look after them properly. If we didn't have idiots arguing to reduce taxes on the richest perhaps we'd have the money. If we had government policies that actually grew the economy perhaps we'd have the money. Perhaps if some people didn't act like the current wealth distribution was fair the patents would have the money.
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 11 minutes ago, Voll Blau said: In other news, I see HFM are reporting Market Harborough (Market Fvcking Harborough FFS!) Foodbank have had 100 more people come to them for help in the past month, including 61 people under 18. Something's clearly very wrong when that's happening in one of the county's most affluent and growing towns. Perhaps the bottom line is the problem. I imagine that Market Harborough has very high housing costs. There is a massive shortage of housing in this country, there have not been enough house built since the 80s. Until there is enough supply to meet demand housing costs will always be a problem.
Guest Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 7 minutes ago, Webbo said: Unpaid tax at record low 'Tax gap' fell to 6% in 2015 to 2016 as government cracks down on avoidance, evasion and non-compliance. The difference between the tax due and that collected by HMRC – known as the ‘tax gap’ – fell to a record low of 6% in 2015 to 2016, official statistics revealed today. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/unpaid-tax-at-record-low That's only the known knowns. Not the unknown unknowns.
Guest Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 Just now, Foxin_mad said: Perhaps the bottom line is the problem. I imagine that Market Harborough has very high housing costs. There is a massive shortage of housing in this country, there have not been enough house built since the 80s. Until there is enough supply to meet demand housing costs will always be a problem. If only we hadn't sold council housing which charged small amounts of rent when convered by housing benefit so that when those same houses were let 20 years later they were at commercial rates. And you wonder why benefits cost so much.
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 1 minute ago, toddybad said: If we didn't have idiots arguing to reduce taxes on the richest perhaps we'd have the money. If we had government policies that actually grew the economy perhaps we'd have the money. Perhaps if some people didn't act like the current wealth distribution was fair the patents would have the money. Or we might have a far left lunatic in charge of the economy who borrows too much, cant pay it back, business lose confidence and the whole economy crashes. We have government policies that are growing the economy right now, they have in my eyes been slowed by Brexit. Parents don't have the money because some of them are bad parents, you give them more money and they might buy themselves a newer iPhone for the latest Instgram.
Fox Ulike Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 Just now, Foxin_mad said: I would imagine they can have a drink of water whenever they like. We are not some far left Socialist state like North Korea! You're too soft on them. Cost of free breakfasts between £180m and £400m per year: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-40032282 9 minutes ago, Webbo said: Unpaid tax at record low 'Tax gap' fell to 6% in 2015 to 2016 as government cracks down on avoidance, evasion and non-compliance. The difference between the tax due and that collected by HMRC – known as the ‘tax gap’ – fell to a record low of 6% in 2015 to 2016, official statistics revealed today. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/unpaid-tax-at-record-low Groan. Tax gap is just the difference between what the HMRC is expecting and what it gets. It doesn't include tax fraud, or something: https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmselect/cmpubacc/674/67405.htm Alex Cobham, research director at Tax Justice Network, said: “ There is a real risk that this tax gap analysis may be taken seriously as the basis for policy – in which case HMRC would continue to ignore the major revenue risks represented by multinationals. It’s important for public confidence, as much as for better policymaking, that HMRC swiftly addresses this spurious estimate.” Seriously, very poor from you Webbo. Another blind alley you've sent us down. Very few people actually believe that tax avoidance isn't an issue. The counter-argument is that it's impossible to track, and that it's necessary to the economy. Very few people actually believes that it's simply not happening.
Webbo Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 9 minutes ago, toddybad said: If only we could get the self employed to declare their income and expenditure honestly we'd probably hit 100%. But can't have them paying their proper tax to help feed the hungry kids can we? No system is perfect. PS I'm glad I'm not 1 of the 5 ultra rightwingers you refuse to argue with anymore.
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 2 minutes ago, toddybad said: If only we hadn't sold council housing which charged small amounts of rent when convered by housing benefit so that when those same houses were let 20 years later they were at commercial rates. And you wonder why benefits cost so much. No problems selling the houses, the problem is we have not built enough and planning laws have been restrictive over successive govenments. We need more houses/homes especially when Labour let in 3 million people, they never built those houses. Lets not forget house price inflation between 1997 and the 2010 was obscene and overseen by our friends in red. Its arguable that this housing bubble also had a huge impact on the Financial crash which was nothing to do with Labour apparently.
Voll Blau Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 1 hour ago, Foxin_mad said: Perhaps the bottom line is the problem. I imagine that Market Harborough has very high housing costs. There is a massive shortage of housing in this country, there have not been enough house built since the 80s. Until there is enough supply to meet demand housing costs will always be a problem. Yep, rents rising and the only new houses being built are for southern commuters or retired people. Council not interested in young people who grew up in the town and have roots there. 1 hour ago, Foxin_mad said: Well I said its not idea but its better than nothing. This is the point here we can not do everything for everyone all of the time else we are very quickly going to run out of money. Its all very well the left saying yep we will help them, we will help them, we will help them, oh yes we will help them and them and them and put up wages for all of them. You help all of the people then realise its going to cost many billions of pounds that you don't have. It absolutely not the children fault they are in this position, the parents need help to change. If they wont change then the children need to be moved to live with a parent who will look after them properly. Nobody's asking people to do "everything for everyone all of the time" though, are they? They're asking for a bit of cash to help provide children - whose parents can't, or won't for whatever reason, provide breakfast - with a bit of grub to help them start their school day right. Obviously one meal a day is better than nothing, by the way. Nothing means children will literally starve to death. It doesn't make it right though, that in 2017 in a country in the civilised world, that we allow children to go hungry in our schools. We should be embarrassed as a nation that we even think that's anywhere close to adequate.
Webbo Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 3 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: You're too soft on them. Cost of free breakfasts between £180m and £400m per year: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-40032282 Groan. Tax gap is just the difference between what the HMRC is expecting and what it gets. It doesn't include tax fraud, or something: https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmselect/cmpubacc/674/67405.htm Alex Cobham, research director at Tax Justice Network, said: “ There is a real risk that this tax gap analysis may be taken seriously as the basis for policy – in which case HMRC would continue to ignore the major revenue risks represented by multinationals. It’s important for public confidence, as much as for better policymaking, that HMRC swiftly addresses this spurious estimate.” Seriously, very poor from you Webbo. Another blind alley you've sent us down. Very few people actually believe that tax avoidance isn't an issue. The counter-argument is that it's impossible to track, and that it's necessary to the economy. Very few people actually believes that it's simply not happening. Ah, obviously official govt statistics aren't as accurate and impartial as "The Tax Justice Network".
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 4 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: You're too soft on them. Cost of free breakfasts between £180m and £400m per year: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-40032282 So basically no one knows how much it will cost really and it may or may not include the cost of the staff to operate, presumably on the living wage of £10 per hour. OK better get Dianne Abbott on the case!
Jon the Hat Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 37 minutes ago, Webbo said: So just let the parents off with their responsibilities? I would totally replace some benefits with a payment card. For a start you would get massive discounts from retailers, and secondly you could restrict them so they don't buy booze and fags.
Jon the Hat Posted 13 December 2017 Posted 13 December 2017 1 minute ago, Foxin_mad said: So basically no one knows how much it will cost really and it may or may not include the cost of the staff to operate, presumably on the living wage of £10 per hour. OK better get Dianne Abbott on the case! While my kids are constantly ****ing hungry despite food being given to them about every 30 minutes, I doubt they would eat their share of school breakfasts.
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