Technology, Science and the Environment.

[leicsmac]

5 hours ago, Line-X said:

'Objects in Space'. The chances of James Webb Telescope getting struck by a 'space rock' are negligible. The region it is 'parked' - Lagrange L2, is gravitationally balanced but is an unstable location,to position something there for a period of time requires energy with “station keeping” thrusters to remain in place. For the same reason, meteroids, asteroids and other such space debris are unable to amass there. However, passing Micro-meteroids and dust are a possibility which is why the “sun shield” is a multi-layered construction designed to prevent tearing/rupture should it be punctured.

 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2323498-james-webb-space-telescope-was-hit-by-a-tiny-space-rock-but-its-ok/

Yeah. Regardless of where you are in space, if you don't harden essential systems against such things then it's likely you won't *have* essential systems after very long.

 

Space is pretty inhospitable.

[Free Falling Foxes]

Friend was telling me of a conversation he was having today about the upcoming heatwave. Inevitably, sadly, there were those who said if this is global warming, bring it on.

 

I fear far too many have this attitude.

 

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

Friend was telling me of a conversation he was having today about the upcoming heatwave. Inevitably, sadly, there were those who said if this is global warming, bring it on.

 

I fear far too many have this attitude.

 

Far too many people not looking far enough ahead or beyond their own line of sight - I did a whole thread on this a long time ago. It's a problem that has been evident for a while.

 

I'm not sure how we overcome that particular problem, but it must be overcome. The consequences of not doing so are pretty awful.

 

Edit: On the above, https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190109-the-perils-of-short-termism-civilisations-greatest-threat

Edited 14 June 2022 by leicsmac

[The Bear]

Unfortunately people still need educating on the difference between weather and climate. 

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-61786545

 

Guterres not mincing words then, for a diplomat. He's spot on, too.

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-61802802

 

Is it too much to expect *anyone* with sufficient power to think of the long game here?

[grobyfox1990]

2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-61802802

 

Is it too much to expect *anyone* with sufficient power to think of the long game here?

Funnily enough that’s a point im sketching out today, and looking for evidence for, in response to the government green finance strategy - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1074650/green-finance-strategy-cfe.pdf

 

The S and the E in ESG can sometimes get confused. Support the S by stopping the import of Russian fuels but counter intuitively the E goes downhill with increased use of Canadian oil sands and Biden going to Riyadh to presumably ask the Saudis to pump more oil to plug the gap 

[leicsmac]

41 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Funnily enough that’s a point im sketching out today, and looking for evidence for, in response to the government green finance strategy - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1074650/green-finance-strategy-cfe.pdf

 

The S and the E in ESG can sometimes get confused. Support the S by stopping the import of Russian fuels but counter intuitively the E goes downhill with increased use of Canadian oil sands and Biden going to Riyadh to presumably ask the Saudis to pump more oil to plug the gap 

Well, quite.

 

Did you find any evidence that things aren't likely to go to hell in a handbasket in (relatively) short order?

[grobyfox1990]

26 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Well, quite.

 

Did you find any evidence that things aren't likely to go to hell in a handbasket in (relatively) short order?

Wasn't clear there, i am looking for evidence to corroborate my view that we are looking to short-term solutions (ie drilling for more oil) to combat the rising cost of energy and Russian fuels being taken off market. Of which there is plenty. In private, the Govt are not focused on this issue at all, they are too busy fighting with each other, and that shows via their incredibly muddled strategy which does not show much insight. They still can't distinguish between climate and sustainability. So yes, to hell in a handbasket we go.

[leicsmac]

12 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Wasn't clear there, i am looking for evidence to corroborate my view that we are looking to short-term solutions (ie drilling for more oil) to combat the rising cost of energy and Russian fuels being taken off market. Of which there is plenty. In private, the Govt are not focused on this issue at all, they are too busy fighting with each other, and that shows via their incredibly muddled strategy which does not show much insight. They still can't distinguish between climate and sustainability. So yes, to hell in a handbasket we go.

That's pretty much what I was asking about, too.

 

 

[Parafox]

On 13/06/2022 at 22:36, Free Falling Foxes said:

Friend was telling me of a conversation he was having today about the upcoming heatwave. Inevitably, sadly, there were those who said if this is global warming, bring it on.

 

I fear far too many have this attitude.

 

When there's a heatwave and all seems lovely and warm and pleasant, albeit "a bit too hot for me but we shouldn't complain" these same people seem shocked when there's rivers flowing down the streets and mud slides are taking vehicles out and people are being swept away to their deaths. They can't seem to comprehend the links. Brits love a good hot summer but don't associate it with consequences of drought, floods, loss of ice caps rising sea levels, blizzards and death, as long as they can look like David Dickinson or Madge from Benidorm.

[The Bear]

It's almost as if the average person on the street doesn't understand thermodynamics and closed systems. 

[adam]

40 minutes ago, The Bear said:

It's almost as if the average person on the street doesn't understand thermodynamics and closed systems. 

I think the average person on the street unfortunately couldn't give a toss about climate change. 

Lots more important things to worry about that are affecting their lives now. 

 

[Free Falling Foxes]

1 hour ago, adam said:

I think the average person on the street unfortunately couldn't give a toss about climate change. 

Lots more important things to worry about that are affecting their lives now. 

 

Chatting to my brother about climate change, in essence he felt it was someone elses problem as he will be long gone if/when the worst happens.

 

I reminded him he has grandchildren and they will be having children and what will we leave for them?

It's what we do now that will make a difference

[The Bear]

1 hour ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

Chatting to my brother about climate change, in essence he felt it was someone elses problem as he will be long gone if/when the worst happens.

 

I reminded him he has grandchildren and they will be having children and what will we leave for them?

It's what we do now that will make a difference

That's a bit like saying you may as well chuck your rubbish on the floor as someone else will pick it up. 

[leicsmac]

3 hours ago, adam said:

I think the average person on the street unfortunately couldn't give a toss about climate change. 

Lots more important things to worry about that are affecting their lives now. 

 

I hear this so often.

 

From my own experiences, it's accurate. However, what it is not is any kind of acceptable excuse.

 

If we follow through that line of thought to its logical conclusion and the bad things happen as a result (which they will), those people will be as accountable for it as anyone else.

 

It is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time, and while people do have more "immediate" concerns it really doesn't take much effort to vote or lobby an MP for change on this matter. If people want to "not give a toss" than that is of course their prerogative, but it also comes with the freedom to be held accountable for the consequences of that apathy.

 

2 hours ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

Chatting to my brother about climate change, in essence he felt it was someone elses problem as he will be long gone if/when the worst happens.

 

I reminded him he has grandchildren and they will be having children and what will we leave for them?

It's what we do now that will make a difference

As per above, there's not enough people thinking long-term enough. Dunno how that can be fixed, but it has to be done.

[Jon the Hat]

Positive news in WA - the two remaining state owned Coal power stations to close in the coming years.  Synergy coal power stations including Muja to close as WA Government prioritises renewable energy - ABC News

 

Given the eastern states are in the midst of an energy crisis, this is a positive statement.  

[grobyfox1990]

8 hours ago, adam said:

I think the average person on the street unfortunately couldn't give a toss about climate change. 

Lots more important things to worry about that are affecting their lives now. 

 

Very true but the transition is happening, it’s just how painful it’ll be for us all. Not even a ‘but think of your kids!!’ Issue, it’s gonna happen to US

[leicsmac]

 

The laws of thermodynamics can't be bought, bluffed or intimidated. Nor can they be ignored.

[HighPeakFox]

On 14/06/2022 at 11:00, The Bear said:

Unfortunately people still need educating on the difference between weather and climate. 

You could have just left it there. Sadly many see education as some underhand subversive political movement.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, HighPeakFox said:

You could have just left it there. Sadly many see education as some underhand subversive political movement.

They're in for a shock when the Earth demonstrates how damaging that lack of education will be.

 

I'd actually be OK with that if everyone else including really innocent people weren't coming along for the ride too.

Edited 21 June 2022 by leicsmac

[Foxdiamond]

5 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

You could have just left it there. Sadly many see education as some underhand subversive political movement.

I fear you are correct. When I feel more cynical than perhaps I should I think there are many people who don't care about much outside their own selfish bubble 

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

I fear you are correct. When I feel more cynical than perhaps I should I think there are many people who don't care about much outside their own selfish bubble 

It's difficult to not be cynical when you have a very good idea of what that very human failing can (and will) cost us.

 

But you're right in that cynicism isn't going to solve the problem - you do have to meet people where they're at, even when the situation is both obvious and dire. Hence methods to address climate change built on appeal to local self-interest.

[HighPeakFox]

It's perhaps worth noting the subtle distinction between cynicism and scepticism. 

[yorkie1999]

Just watched the Apollo 11 docu. Still think it is the greatest technological achievement ever. I visited nasa this year and to say that the Apollo rocket they have there is impressive is the understatement of the year. 400000 engineers working together to build something that could fly 250000 miles away, land on the moon and return is just mind boggling. The flight navigation computer was 10m diameter yet only  had 74k rom and 4 k of ram in a time before transistors and silicone chips which meant each bit (on or off) was an actual wired circuit which took years to manufacture.