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[Grebfromgrebland]

 

 

[Grebfromgrebland]

 

 

[bovril]

7 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

 

 

How I feel right now:

 

[David Guiza]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-49084466 - I do find the people who are so admantly against veganism odd. Like, imagine getting so angry about what somebody eats to the point where you carry out a plan of eating a squirel to rile up strangers. Ironic given the people who think veganism is a mental illness.

 

That being said, I'm sure people will just continue buy into the rhetoric that most vegans talk about it all the time and shove it in their faces so this sort of thing is deserved.

[Foxin_Mad]

Equally. I also find the fact that Vegans find it acceptable to go into a restaurant and smear fake blood everywhere when people are just trying to have a enjoyable time/meal slightly odd.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7043781/Vegan-activists-storm-McDonalds-wearing-PIG-masks-spraying-fake-blood-floor.html

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/nandos-protest-brighton-vegan-chicken-animal-rights-protest-occupy-a8927446.html

 

This kind of behaviour needs to stop from both sides. I am perfectly happy for people to be whatever they want to be but they need to also accept the rights of others to also be whatever they want to be and trust them to make their own judgments on the merits or otherwise of their decisions. 

 

 

[David Guiza]

36 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

Equally. I also find the fact that Vegans find it acceptable to go into a restaurant and smear fake blood everywhere when people are just trying to have a enjoyable time/meal slightly odd.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7043781/Vegan-activists-storm-McDonalds-wearing-PIG-masks-spraying-fake-blood-floor.html

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/nandos-protest-brighton-vegan-chicken-animal-rights-protest-occupy-a8927446.html

 

This kind of behaviour needs to stop from both sides. I am perfectly happy for people to be whatever they want to be but they need to also accept the rights of others to also be whatever they want to be and trust them to make their own judgments on the merits or otherwise of their decisions. 

 

 

Agree that both are odd and unwarranted, but I would note that one is attacking huge companies for their treatment of animals and the other is attacking individuals for their dietry choice - so I do think there is a distinction to be drawn between the two. That said, it's not exactly the low wage employees of McDonalds and Nandos fault and they are innocent victims in the above articles too. 

 

Even as a liberal veggie who eats a mainly vegan diet, I find the actions of some vegans utterly mental and they are the opposite effect to their presumed aim. I do however think that that things like throwing parts of a pig/biting into a squirel etc in order to provoke are worse than fake blood. I know which one I'd rather be covered in anyway. 

 

It's just another example of this raw hatred and anger that seems to be growing, like it has in past decades. Peaceful debate is fast becoming a thing of the past.  

[Foxin_Mad]

6 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

Agree that both are odd and unwarranted, but I would note that one is attacking huge companies for their treatment of animals and the other is attacking individuals for their dietry choice - so I do think there is a distinction to be drawn between the two. That said, it's not exactly the low wage employees of McDonalds and Nandos fault and they are innocent victims in the above articles too. 

 

I wouldn't say its about attacking the companies though, It isn't the consumers who are nipping out for a well earned meals fault either if they want a meat based meal, regardless of what people think of McDonalds or Nando's or whoever, innocents shouldn't be subjected to this kind of nonsense from either side. 

 

That said biting into a raw squirrel is abhorrent even from a meat eaters point of view.

 

I prefer to just label these people idiots from either side. 

[urban.spaceman]

2 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said:

Equally. I also find the fact that Vegans find it acceptable to go into a restaurant and smear fake blood everywhere when people are just trying to have a enjoyable time/meal slightly odd.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7043781/Vegan-activists-storm-McDonalds-wearing-PIG-masks-spraying-fake-blood-floor.html

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/nandos-protest-brighton-vegan-chicken-animal-rights-protest-occupy-a8927446.html

 

This kind of behaviour needs to stop from both sides. I am perfectly happy for people to be whatever they want to be but they need to also accept the rights of others to also be whatever they want to be and trust them to make their own judgments on the merits or otherwise of their decisions. 

 

 

Veganism is fine and a decent way to live your life.

 

Same goes for eating meat.

 

You can love and be kind to animals and still enjoy a chicken burger without compromising your morals. 

 

It’s the activists that are ****ing weird. Especially the ones that resort to extremist behaviour like the ones you highlighted. 

 

PETA does my head in when they’re going around trying to shame a celebrity for once openly eating bacon yet have got absolutely **** all to say about trophy hunting or the imminent ****ing extinction of the Rhino. 

 

Aggressive activism never works and only emboldens your opponents. 

[Buce]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

Veganism is fine and a decent way to live your life.

 

Same goes for eating meat.

 

You can love and be kind to animals and still enjoy a chicken burger without compromising your morals. 

 

It’s the activists that are ****ing weird. Especially the ones that resort to extremist behaviour like the ones you highlighted. 

 

PETA does my head in when they’re going around trying to shame a celebrity for once openly eating bacon yet have got absolutely **** all to say about trophy hunting or the imminent ****ing extinction of the Rhino. 

 

Aggressive activism never works and only emboldens your opponents. 

 

I'm afraid that just isn't true.

 

When you buy mass-produced meat, you are validating the producer's cruelty; it's like saying you're kind to elephants but buying an ivory chess set doesn't compromise your morals.

[Foxin_Mad]

14 hours ago, Buce said:

 

I'm afraid that just isn't true.

 

When you buy mass-produced meat, you are validating the producer's cruelty; it's like saying you're kind to elephants but buying an ivory chess set doesn't compromise your morals.

But if you eat meat you need to accept that animals are going to be farmed and they are going to be killed. That said it is incorrect to say all mass produced meat is produced using cruel methods, its not ideal from the animals point of view but it is not cruel. To meet the quantity of meat required there has to be some mass production, and obviously any animal bred for meat is going to live a far from idyllic life no matter how it is farmed.

 

As meat eaters we have to accept this is the case. None meat eaters need to accept that meat eaters have accepted this. If anyone does not like the way meat is produced they have a choice, the information is there for them to do their own research. It is not up activists to ruin peoples days/life to prove their point. 

 

In fact these people have less morals than anyone who eats any kind of meat. The fact they will happily destroy a child's day out in McDonalds, absolute scum. 

Edited 24 July 2019 by Foxin_Mad

[Buce]

25 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

But if you eat meat you need to accept that animals are going to be farmed and they are going to be killed. That said it is incorrect to say all mass produced meat is produced using cruel methods, its not ideal from the animals point of view but it is not cruel. To meet the quantity of meat required there has to be some mass production, and obviously any animal bred for meat is going to live a far from idyllic life no matter how it is farmed.

 

As meat eaters we have to accept this is the case. None meat eaters need to accept that meat eaters have accepted this. If anyone does not like the way meat is produced they have a choice, the information is there for them to do their own research. It is not up activists to ruin peoples days/life to prove their point. 

 

In fact these people have less morals than anyone who eats any kind of meat. The fact they will happily destroy a child's day out in McDonalds, absolute scum. 

 

I'm not completely disagreeing (or judging - veganism is my lifestyle choice but I'm not evangelical about it) but if you think meat production is not cruel, you either have a very odd view of what cruelty is or you've never seen what goes on in an abattoir. If you eat meat, you need to accept that it does compromise your morality if you claim to oppose animal cruelty, as Urban Spaceman claimed.

 

If meat eaters are honest and say they don't care, then fair enough, but trying to argue it's not cruel sounds very much like lying to themselves to make it easier to live with their conscience.

[Strokes]

14 hours ago, Buce said:

 

I'm afraid that just isn't true.

 

When you buy mass-produced meat, you are validating the producer's cruelty; it's like saying you're kind to elephants but buying an ivory chess set doesn't compromise your morals.

I disagree, I like my friends and family but if I was trapped in a cave with no food and a camping stove, I would eat them. 

[Buce]

Just now, Strokes said:

I disagree, I like my friends and family but if I was trapped in a cave with no food and a camping stove, I would eat them. 

 

A camping stove?

 

Pft, I thought you were hard?

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

A camping stove?

 

Pft, I thought you were hard?

Yeah but I might be tired after sawing though my mums leg. I’m just thinking ahead.

[Buce]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

Yeah but I might be tired after sawing though my mums leg. I’m just thinking ahead.

 

So now you're using a saw?

 

You don't have teeth then?

[Foxin_Mad]

44 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

I'm not completely disagreeing (or judging - veganism is my lifestyle choice but I'm not evangelical about it) but if you think meat production is not cruel, you either have a very odd view of what cruelty is or you've never seen what goes on in an abattoir. If you eat meat, you need to accept that it does compromise your morality if you claim to oppose animal cruelty, as Urban Spaceman claimed.

 

If meat eaters are honest and say they don't care, then fair enough, but trying to argue it's not cruel sounds very much like lying to themselves to make it easier to live with their conscience.

Cruelty is of course subjective to an individual. I am sure many have different opinions on what is cruel/not cruel. Its really up to the individual to judge. I am happy for people to hold whatever beliefs they choose. 

 

I personally think some meat production is not cruel, obviously I cant speak for all producers and am aware there are some unscrupulous producers. You have to accept the animal doesn't live a fulfilling life and that it is going to get killed if it is bred for meat. If you don't like that you don't it meat. Really it unnecessary to go into the full detail of some food production as we would probably eat very little. 

 

For my personal meat purchasing I go to a local establishment I know very well, obviously you can not be entirely sure on the production methods used in many restaurants, the same can also be said for the quality and or growing techniques used for some fruit/vegetables. It could be argued the pesticides used for mass production of fruit/vegetables could have a more far reaching impact on the insect\animal kingdom (bees in particular) and perhaps equally be considered morally questionable. 

Edited 24 July 2019 by Foxin_Mad

[Strokes]

9 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

So now you're using a saw?

 

You don't have teeth then?

You vegans are just mean 

[Buce]

36 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

Cruelty is of course subjective to an individual. I am sure many have different opinions on what is cruel/not cruel. Its really up to the individual to judge. I am happy for people to hold whatever beliefs they choose. 

 

I personally think some meat production is not cruel, obviously I cant speak for all producers and am aware there are some unscrupulous producers. You have to accept the animal doesn't live a fulfilling life and that it is going to get killed if it is bred for meat. If you don't like that you don't it meat. Really it unnecessary to go into the full detail of some food production as we would probably eat very little. 

 

For my personal meat purchasing I go to a local establishment I know very well, obviously you can not be entirely sure on the production methods used in many restaurants, the same can also be said for the quality and or growing techniques used for some fruit/vegetables. It could be argued the pesticides used for mass production of fruit/vegetables could have a more far reaching impact on the insect\animal kingdom (bees in particular) and perhaps equally be considered morally questionable. 

 

It not just could be argued, it is argued by any self-respecting environmentalist.

 

Unfortunately, largely because of the actions of the idiots you've previously mentioned, veganism is a misunderstood concept. It's not just about not eating meat at all, it's a holistic way of life that can be summed up by the phrase 'cause no harm'. That extends not only to the creatures with which we share our planet, not only to the environment, but also to oneself - a 'proper' vegan doesn't smoke, for example. On a personal level, although cruelty in animal farming does concern me, I choose to eat a plant-based diet largely for health reasons.

[Buce]

42 minutes ago, Strokes said:

You vegans are just mean 

 

You'd be mean if all you ate was lettuce...

Edited 24 July 2019 by Buce

[urban.spaceman]

16 hours ago, Buce said:

 

I'm afraid that just isn't true.

 

When you buy mass-produced meat, you are validating the producer's cruelty; it's like saying you're kind to elephants but buying an ivory chess set doesn't compromise your morals.

I don’t necessarily disagree, though I would argue that it’s an unfair comparison with the ivory trade. 

[Carl the Llama]

17 hours ago, Buce said:

 

I'm afraid that just isn't true.

 

When you buy mass-produced meat, you are validating the producer's cruelty; it's like saying you're kind to elephants but buying an ivory chess set doesn't compromise your morals.

What about buying free range and RSPCA certified meat?

[Foxin_Mad]

2 hours ago, Buce said:

 

It not just could be argued, it is argued by any self-respecting environmentalist.

 

Unfortunately, largely because of the actions of the idiots you've previously mentioned, veganism is a misunderstood concept. It's not just about not eating meat at all, it's a holistic way of life that can be summed up by the phrase 'cause no harm'. That extends not only to the creatures with which we share our planet, not only to the environment, but also to oneself - a 'proper' vegan doesn't smoke, for example. On a personal level, although cruelty in animal farming does concern me, I choose to eat a plant-based diet largely for health reasons.

Absolutely. I wonder how many of those lot have any idea where the ingredients in their Vegan Sub of the day come from? I very much doubt most of the mass produced vegan food 'does no harm' at all which kind of destroys their argument. I suppose the phrase for a proper-vegan is ethical-vegan. I think unfortunately in the modern world a lot of people do it for likes. 

 

Again they are entitled to do whatever they wish, its more the double standards that irks. 

 

Edited 24 July 2019 by Foxin_Mad

[Buce]

1 hour ago, Carl the Llama said:

What about buying free range and RSPCA certified meat?

 

I can't comment on the latter as I'm not familiar with it, but the idea that 'free range' is cruelty free is a misconception. Chickens didn't evolve to live in flocks and doing so causes them stress (which one could argue is in itself cruel), and when stressed chickens peck at one another until eventual death (when I was young I worked in an egg production facility on a kibbutz, and finding blind, featherless chickens was a daily occurance) - it's where the term 'hen-pecked' originates. In order to prevent this, egg-producing chickens are routinely de-beaked, a process that causes extreme and chronic pain.

Edited 24 July 2019 by Buce

[Buce]

8 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

Absolutely. I wonder how many of those lot have any idea where the ingredients in their Vegan Sub of the day come from? I very much doubt most of the mass produced vegan food 'does no harm' at all which kind of destroys their argument. I suppose the phrase for a proper-vegan is ethical-vegan. I think unfortunately in the modern world a lot of people do it for likes. 

 

Again they are entitled to do whatever they wish, its more the double standards that irks. 

 

 

Sure, but vegans don't have a monopoly on that.

 

How many meater eaters rage about Chinese/Korean consumption of dogs, yet have no problem eating a cow/pig/sheep?

[Foxin_Mad]

13 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Sure, but vegans don't have a monopoly on that.

 

How many meater eaters rage about Chinese/Korean consumption of dogs, yet have no problem eating a cow/pig/sheep?

It is very true, the world is full of double standards. 

 

At the end of the day we need to eat, there are lots of us. I honestly don't think we could sustain the global population on organic crops alone. People need to be pragmatic enough to understand and accept that.