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America needs to work out why it’s young men are turning to mass murder.  They are never going to stop them getting access to guns.

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17 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

America needs to work out why it’s young men are turning to mass murder.  They are never going to stop them getting access to guns.

For at least some of them, it's because they're being told (sometimes subtly, sometimes blatantly) that their position of (relative) social dominance is under threat and they need to kill in order to generate the necessary climate of fear to ensure that they remain top dogs.

 

If you look at the perps from most of the mass shooting incidents in the last couple of years where the number of casualties are ten or higher and therefore the shooting was more likely to be indiscriminate rather than personal, quite you will find a guy angry that the world isn't tilted as much in his favour now as it was in the past.

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2 hours ago, Buce said:

 

It can't be just about availability of guns, though - there are other countries with relaxed gun laws where this doesn't happen.

 

It has to be something to do with the American psyche.

I think the egoist Western psyche of I'm the centre of the universe, it's all about me,me,me , celebrityism and it's my right is just a little stronger in the U.S. I wouldn't be surprised to see similar start to happen in European countries. Thankfully the UK has strict gun laws but maybe the increase in knife deaths is the UK sign of this trend migrating. The US are simply the leaders.

 

 

32 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

America needs to work out why it’s young men are turning to mass murder.  They are never going to stop them getting access to guns.

They are told that mass murder is okay and their right. Have you seen American Army ads on their general tv?

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Guns are part of the problem, but don't tell the full story. It's the culture behind it in the US, the weapons industry, the right to bear arms and the rather easy accessibility (even though background checks have seemingly become more thorough, there's always ways to circumvent the system).

 

When you look at the guns-per-capita stats, other countries are leading, but have a lot less homicides based on the use of shotguns:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081

 

May I also remind people that the US are the third most populous country in the world (behind China and India). So, relatively high numbers shouldn't come as such a big surprise. More (deranged) people with access to weapons=more potential shootings.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?end=2016&locations=CN-US-IN&start=2012

(Pick your country of choice in the list below for comparable data)

 

It begs the question what India or China are doing better or why mass shootings in India don't make the headlines as much over here. The data also shows that homicides in the US have been on the slight increase ever since 2014, that was under Obama. So you can't just pin it down to Trump or Republicans.

Edited by MC Prussian

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1 hour ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Naturally, while we're discussing the latest mass shooting, another mass shooting takes place

Ahh, THAT'S why it's always too soon to talk about gun control - it's because there's almost always another one taking place!

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15 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Ahh, THAT'S why it's always too soon to talk about gun control - it's because there's almost always another one taking place!

Yes, we need to be absolutely sure what we're dealing with here.

 

Let's not be hasty

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2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

For at least some of them, it's because they're being told (sometimes subtly, sometimes blatantly) that their position of (relative) social dominance is under threat and they need to kill in order to generate the necessary climate of fear to ensure that they remain top dogs.

 

If you look at the perps from most of the mass shooting incidents in the last couple of years where the number of casualties are ten or higher and therefore the shooting was more likely to be indiscriminate rather than personal, quite you will find a guy angry that the world isn't tilted as much in his favour now as it was in the past.

This ^ 

 

Spot on, IMO. There’s a reason that young, disaffected (and mostly European-American / “white”) males are almost universally behind these mass killings.

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young, disillusioned, angry white men who are targeted and groomed by white nationalists in the same way ISIS target young, disillusioned, angry muslim men - only difference being is that the white men in america have an easy pick of whatever automatic weapon and ammunition they want, when they want. and also the luxury of being white - which automatically means it's not terrorism so get a free pass every time and we can only deal with it using 'thoughts and prayers'.

 

these kids can't grasp that they're a piece of shit and doing badly in life because that's how they were raised - they've got an inferiority complex and a chip on their shoulder because the black man, the muslim man, the immigrant neighbour is doing better than they are in life. easy target for online grooming on sensationalist websites like 4chan, 8chan, etc. no-hopers with no chance of bettering themselves because poverty / failed war on drugs / lack of education / lack of decent home and it's easier to blame all of that on minority groups.

 

****ing LOL at mexico having 3 mass shootings so far this year. maybe they'd be better of with that wall to keep the ****ing mental americans out tbh. 

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7 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

young, disillusioned, angry white men who are targeted and groomed by white nationalists in the same way ISIS target young, disillusioned, angry muslim men - only difference being is that the white men in america have an easy pick of whatever automatic weapon and ammunition they want, when they want. and also the luxury of being white - which automatically means it's not terrorism so get a free pass every time and we can only deal with it using 'thoughts and prayers'.

 

these kids can't grasp that they're a piece of shit and doing badly in life because that's how they were raised - they've got an inferiority complex and a chip on their shoulder because the black man, the muslim man, the immigrant neighbour is doing better than they are in life. easy target for online grooming on sensationalist websites like 4chan, 8chan, etc. no-hopers with no chance of bettering themselves because poverty / failed war on drugs / lack of education / lack of decent home and it's easier to blame all of that on minority groups.

 

****ing LOL at mexico having 3 mass shootings so far this year. maybe they'd be better of with that wall to keep the ****ing mental americans out tbh. 

Don't forget the "females" who won't sleep with them despite them clearly being "alphas". That's often a big part of it too.

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Sunday's shooting in Dayton is the 22nd mass killing of 2019 in the U.S., according to the AP/USA Today/Northeastern University mass murder database that tracks homicides where four or more people killed -- not including the offender. The 20 mass killings in the U.S. in 2019 that preceded this weekend claimed 96 lives.

 

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEKImcVSY6plVHDOmC8UH5LwqGQgEKhAIACoHCAow6f-ICzDjj4gDMJTFnwY?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA%3Aen

 

 

guns are an american problem (republican or democrat). The problem is  neither of the ***** have the balls to stand up to NRA and gun companies because they are all on the take for their own greed.

 

Now IS the time to talk about gun control. There is 0 need for semi automatic etc. Good old handgun, 1 round at a time is all that should be permitted.

 

Also, you cant conpare gun incidents in India to america thats a bloody joke. Its a fcking 3rd world  country not even close to being as free as the western world.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Jattdogg
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"In less than one minute, Dayton first responders neutralized the shooter," Whaley said.
"I really want to -- think about that minute. The shooter was able to kill nine people and injure 26 in less than a minute. And if we did not have police in the Oregon District and the thousands of people in the Oregon District enjoying their Saturday evening, what we could have had in this city," Whaley said.
 
 
 
This was from the mayor in an article i saw on cnn (im not a cnn or fox lover)..you just know how gun  lovers will see this quote.....
 
" see if the cops didnt have guns he would have killed more, lets arm everyone!"
Edited by Jattdogg

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At this juncture I'd like to point out that Nigel Farage wants to relax the UK's gun controls.

 

Something else to think about at election time.

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3 minutes ago, Buce said:

Something else to think about at election time.

 

Priti Patel will probably start shipping them in and dishing them out herself tbh. 

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5 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

America needs to work out why it’s young men are turning to mass murder.  They are never going to stop them getting access to guns.

They did in this country and they did in Australia, make gun ownership illegal and it will stop, maybe not straight away but it will eventually

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1 minute ago, yorkie1999 said:

They did in this country and they did in Australia, make gun ownership illegal and it will stop, maybe not straight away but it will eventually

 

people just come back with pathetic excuses like "it's too far gone now" or "you'll never get them all back" or "it'll just increase black-market ownership". 

 

BUT 

 

the alternative is literally to carry on as they are which clearly isn't working and is never, ever going to work no matter what they do. 

 

far too many insecure Americans who see their guns as some sort of dick-measuring contest. they'd literally rather see their own kids get shot up in school then give up their precious second amendment. 

 

and the NRA have spent billions and lobbied themselves so far up everyone's asses in republican government that nobody will do anything about it other than offer thoughts/prayers. 

 

idiots.

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1 minute ago, lifted*fox said:

 

people just come back with pathetic excuses like "it's too far gone now" or "you'll never get them all back" or "it'll just increase black-market ownership". 

 

BUT 

 

the alternative is literally to carry on as they are which clearly isn't working and is never, ever going to work no matter what they do. 

 

far too many insecure Americans who see their guns as some sort of dick-measuring contest. they'd literally rather see their own kids get shot up in school then give up their precious second amendment. 

 

and the NRA have spent billions and lobbied themselves so far up everyone's asses in republican government that nobody will do anything about it other than offer thoughts/prayers. 

 

idiots.

They could actually amend the 2nd amendment.

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12 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

They did in this country and they did in Australia, make gun ownership illegal and it will stop, maybe not straight away but it will eventually

 

4 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

 

people just come back with pathetic excuses like "it's too far gone now" or "you'll never get them all back" or "it'll just increase black-market ownership". 

 

BUT 

 

the alternative is literally to carry on as they are which clearly isn't working and is never, ever going to work no matter what they do. 

 

far too many insecure Americans who see their guns as some sort of dick-measuring contest. they'd literally rather see their own kids get shot up in school then give up their precious second amendment. 

 

and the NRA have spent billions and lobbied themselves so far up everyone's asses in republican government that nobody will do anything about it other than offer thoughts/prayers. 

 

idiots.

 

Depressingly, I think it really is too far gone.

 

America is awash with guns in a way that the UK and Oz were not; also, we never really had a gun culture in the UK (not sure about Oz) in the way the US does. There would need to be a overwhelming consensus for it to have a chance of happening, and I don't think that concensus is there. The best that could be hoped for is banning certain kinds of  firearms (ie assault rifles), imo.

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maybe it is too far gone, maybe it's about time we think about something radical, like a country swap 

 

put all the racist, xenophobic, homophobic, gun-toting idiots on a small-minded, white-supremacist-'alpha' only island somewhere and let them ****ing get on with it. 

 

free up some space in the UK and USA for people who want to live happily, in safety alongside people of all races, sexuality, etc. 

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7 hours ago, Wymeswold fox said:

Am stunned (but greatly relieved for the victim's families) that the police managed to arrest the alleged murderer and that he didn't kill himself at the point of them surrounding him - just like the murderer a few years ago who wore a clown suit (?) and fired on his victims inside a cinema in the country.

 

This type of murder calls for the death penalty to be utilised to punish him, imo; as a life imprisonment is personally wrong on this incident-type, imo.

 

The absolute prospect of being held in prison will not stop those who could potentially commit such horrible acts in the future; as they'll still have the same human rights as other prisoners who aren't in prison for killing an innocent individual/s (and not to mention the millions of innocent people around the world desperate for such basic needs struggling with poverty..) - such as food and water etc.

 

-

 

Also read that the past two gun-murdering incidents in the US this week (the other involving some outdoor event), consisted of young lone gunmen.

 

Depending on their medical backgrounds etc, these cases could may be perceived by some that the authorities over there have failed to monitor them/get them the right support they needed in the past (if that makes sense) - had they had any mental illness diagnosis in the past (that very obviously, now, of course may have escalated in the lead-up to this tradegy).

No. It's not the answer, plenty of stats back up the fact that the DP is not a deterrent. It also costs more to execute someone than to imprison them for life. It's not the thread to discuss it, but I will never accept the death penalty as something any civilised society should condone. Rehabilitate, educate, and reform. 

 

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