Linguistic pedantry

[Phil Bowman]

8 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

saying literally over and over until the meaning changes isn't evolution

I suspect that is, literally, evolution?

 

I’m in a lifelong struggle to find the balance between on the one side my hatred of prescriptive grammar (what gives posh twats who write dictionaries the right to tell people that how they speak is ‘wrong’?) and on the other side my own feelings (whether they’re instinctive or learned I don’t know) that some things are actually wrong, and my sadness when precise meanings and distinctions get lost, and language gets diminished. But maybe it doesn’t actually get diminished, it just changes and leaves me behind, and where once I was a young firebrand I’m now a reactionary old goat who doesn’t like change. I don’t know.

[Phil Bowman]

9 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

I'm all ears.

Literally.

[HighPeakFox]

Let me be clearer - there is a world of difference between a casual mistake and evident ignorance. 

 

And before anyone gets defensive about me using a word like 'ignorance' on the assumption that I am doing so pejoratively, I'm as guilty as the next man of ignorance - I just try hard not to advertise what I don't know.

[Phil Bowman]

28 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

And before anyone gets defensive about me using a word like 'ignorance' on the assumption that I am doing so pejoratively

I would hope that people who hang out in a linguistic pedantry conversation are not ignorant of the fact that ‘ignorant’ has an actual meaning and isn’t automatically an insult.

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, Phil Bowman said:

I would hope that people who hang out in a linguistic pedantry conversation are not ignorant of the fact that ‘ignorant’ has an actual meaning and isn’t automatically an insult.

I am sure someone who has no interest in such pedantry will come to this thread in order to justify being offended.

[Phil Bowman]

Just now, HighPeakFox said:

I am sure someone who has no interest in such pedantry will come to this thread in order to justify being offended.

Your probably right some People just like taking offence at thing’s

[HighPeakFox]

2 minutes ago, Phil Bowman said:

Your probably right some People just like taking offence at thing’s

Your just doing it on porpoise.

[Phil Bowman]

13 hours ago, MPH said:

 

there was a song released in the 40s with the famous line “ is you is or is you ain’t my baby”

 

now that took forever to write as I’m dyslexic  but  even I cringe every time I see that line  

I love that line! Witty use of the vernacular, deliberately grammatically ridiculous (but also makes perfect sense), and very funny!

[Phil Bowman]

5 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Your just doing it on porpoise.

Guilty as charged, your honour.

[drumbeat]

2 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

I just try hard not to advertise what I don't know.

At the danger of getting into Donald Rumsfeld territory, how do you know what you don't know? 

 

The ambiguity (to be generous with my definition) around such words as 'ignorant' is one of the things about language that interests me greatly. People will use a word in in one sense, perhaps completely unaware of its (historical?) broader meaning. As someone hearing that usage, you have to pretty quickly devise/decide (and/or constrain even) the intended meaning. Fiendishly difficult; the potential for misinterpretation is there. Hence me asking upthread if we ever really understand each other. (My quick answer to that; no, not fully but near enough and often enough for conversation and understanding to bumble along)

 

We're not born with a lexicon ready installed, or a dictionary in our heads. We derive meaning as we go along, often having quite personal takes on meaning. For example, for years I thought 'vivid' meant something akin to 'vague' - as I was so often described as having a vivid imagination. As I knew my imagination, and it's somewhat ethereal nature, I kind of reverse-engineered the meaning of vivid to be something it isn't. Not quite anyway. Such personal takes add to the fun of communication.

Edited 21 September 2021 by drumbeat

[HighPeakFox]

6 minutes ago, drumbeat said:

At the danger of getting into Donald Rumsfeld territory, how do you know what you don't know? 

I'm fully aware that there is lots I do not know, even if I often can't be specific about it. For example, the world of science and medicine - I know it exists and that it is entirely beyond my comprehension. So although I am respectful of its existence and brilliance, I am ignorant as to the detail.

[HighPeakFox]

Has anyone else noticed that the biggest speck-of-dust moaners tend to be people with a somewhat rudimentary understanding of our mother tongue? 

 

 

[murphy]

On 20/09/2021 at 19:31, HighPeakFox said:

While we're on the subject, people that end statements with a question mark. What is that - afraid to commit fearing they might offend?

I do this I'm afraid.  Usually when I'm uncetrain of what I'm saying.  For instance:

 

Presumably Maddison is still troubled by injury?

 

I don't know JM's health status for sure, but it is a statement rather than a question I suppose?

 

Oops.  Just did it again.

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, murphy said:

I do this I'm afraid.  Usually when I'm uncetrain of what I'm saying.  For instance:

 

Presumably Maddison is still troubled by injury?

 

I don't know JM's health status for sure, but it is a statement rather than a question I suppose?

 

Oops.  Just did it again.

Then I would respectfully suggest a better sentence construction  

[ajthefox]

I took my parents for dinner in a local restaurant a few weeks ago. Quite a classy place, or at least that is the impression they are giving off.

 

Their drinks menu lists expresso alongside several other types of coffee.

[tom27111]

5 minutes ago, ajthefox said:

I took my parents for dinner in a local restaurant a few weeks ago. Quite a classy place, or at least that is the impression they are giving off.

 

Their drinks menu lists expresso alongside several other types of coffee.

 

Outrageous. 

 

My General Manager has been in the motor trade for about 30 years, noticed the other day he writes cars as car's.

 

I've lost all respect for him.

[HighPeakFox]

8 minutes ago, tom27111 said:

 

Outrageous. 

 

My General Manager has been in the motor trade for about 30 years, noticed the other day he writes cars as car's.

 

I've lost all respect for him.

Don't read this forum with too much attention, if I were you...  

[tom27111]

10 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Don't read this forum with too much attention, if I were you...  

 

This is the Linguistic Pedantry thread!

 

I do make mistakes, but I'm a bit of a grammar Nazi, especially as I studied Journalism at uni.

 

That's what a sub-editor is for 

 

[murphy]

10 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

Then I would respectfully suggest a better sentence construction  

 

Like a dagger to the heart.

[murphy]

Harsh but fair.

 

I've always disliked that.  Can you be harsh but also fair?  Surely to be harsh is to be disproportionate and therefore unfair?

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, murphy said:

Harsh but fair.

 

I've always disliked that.  Can you be harsh but also fair?  Surely to be harsh is to be disproportionate and therefore unfair?

Blunt but fair? 

Edited 2 November 2021 by HighPeakFox

[Milo]

Something has been troubling me for a little while.

 

No-one came from miles around and said 'Who's he?'

 

Why is the 'Who's he' in quotation marks, and not the entire quote? 

 

If the entire sentence is a quote, shouldn't the question mark at the end be outside the quotation mark, or does that only apply if the entire sentence is a question?  

 

And what happened to the 'man'?

 

 

 

Didn't know where else to put this. 

 

 

[Carl the Llama]

Got asked by one of my senior staff members at work the other day why one of our promotional boards features the word "lattes" (used to denote more than one latte) and not "latte's".  I stared at him in silence for half a minute hoping he'd realise his mistake or say he was joking but instead he dug deeper into his grammatical insolence.  I felt like I must be falling victim to some imperceptible prank as I explained the concept of pluralisation vs possession to a grown adult.

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, Milo said:

Something has been troubling me for a little while.

 

No-one came from miles around and said 'Who's he?'

 

Why is the 'Who's he' in quotation marks, and not the entire quote? 

 

If the entire sentence is a quote, shouldn't the question mark at the end be outside the quotation mark, or does that only apply if the entire sentence is a question?  

 

And what happened to the 'man'?

 

 

 

Didn't know where else to put this. 

 

 

You're correct, I used a quote from a song, but the question within the line requires quotation marks. I just wanted it as a statement, hence my laxness about quoting the whole thing. 

[Oxfordfox83]

On 02/11/2021 at 09:08, murphy said:

Harsh but fair.

 

I've always disliked that.  Can you be harsh but also fair?  Surely to be harsh is to be disproportionate and therefore unfair?

A hundred times this.

 

Firm but fair ☑️
Hard but fair ☑️
Harsh but fair is an oxymoron and I’m genuinely moved that it grates with someone else.