Covid passports

[PAPA LAZAROU]

7 hours ago, leicsmac said:

...and so we arrive at the point at last, that the entire scientific method in this particular case is untrustworthy. And yes,  that *is* what is being heavily inferred here. 

 

Well, it's a free country, but personally I'd trust that method about understanding the natural world over any other source because it's both wrong less and self correcting. It's sad that so many people seem not to trust it for their own purposes these days.

I would love to trust politicians and so-called experts but these idiots came up with gems such as " it's ok to go into a pub so long as you have something to eat but not just for a pint" ( that way the COVID will not get you ) and what happened to the experts view that COVID is no danger to those under twenty? ( they are even putting pressure on parents to have their kids jabbed now ) The constant contradictions would be laughable if it were not so serious. Did not the behaviour of politicians over the Brexit fiasco tell you anything about trusting them? and the so-called scientific experts change their minds like the wind and contradict each other on a weekly basis. That is why anyone can go on the internet and pick which ever version of statistics that suit their own agenda to try and prove they are right. Ps it's NOT a free country as we are rapidly finding out. The only sad thing is people blindly trusting in people who have constantly proved untrustworthy.

Edited 3 November 2021 by PAPA LAZAROU

[leicsmac]

39 minutes ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

I would love to trust politicians and so-called experts but these idiots came up with gems such as " it's ok to go into a pub so long as you have something to eat but not just for a pint" ( that way the COVID will not get you ) and what happened to the experts view that COVID is no danger to those under twenty? ( they are even putting pressure on parents to have their kids jabbed now ) The constant contradictions would be laughable if it were not so serious. Did not the behaviour of politicians over the Brexit fiasco tell you anything about trusting them? and the so-called scientific experts change their minds like the wind and contradict each other on a weekly basis. That is why anyone can go on the internet and pick which ever version of statistics that suit their own agenda to try and prove they are right. Ps it's NOT a free country as we are rapidly finding out. The only sad thing is people blindly trusting in people who have constantly proved untrustworthy.

That is what the scientific method is all about, dynamic and changing based on the data available.  That's a strength, not a weakness

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

That is what the scientific method is all about, dynamic and changing based on the data available.  That's a strength, not a weakness

Not really, eventually there becomes enough contradictions that it ends up being useless information.

[leicsmac]

36 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Not really, eventually there becomes enough contradictions that it ends up being useless information.

Only if one is unwilling to discard previous information and adopt new information as this change and discoveries are made.

 

Unfortunately, a fault with humans is that we like sticking to certainty and can be very dogmatic. Not an ideal survival trait.

Edited 3 November 2021 by leicsmac

[PAPA LAZAROU]

7 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Only if one is unwilling to discard previous information and adopt new information as this change and discoveries are made.

 

Unfortunately, a fault with humans is that we like sticking to certainty and can be very dogmatic. Not an ideal survival trait.

Another human failing is our gullibility in trusting these so-called experts even when they so obviously haven't a clue and counter argue among themselves. Track and trace anyone?

 

As Mark Twain said " it's easier to lie to someone, than it is to convince them they have been lied too"

Edited 3 November 2021 by PAPA LAZAROU

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

Another human failing is our gullibility in trusting these so-called experts even when they so obviously haven't a clue and counter argue among themselves. Track and trace anyone?

In many ways I could follow your frustration...but One must Take into Account who are we being told are experts,,especially with our(UK) Type of Media outlets..

Following from overseas, I often Think they have their platforms, & choose their experts on the Rhetorik needed across anyy given period of news & over Covid Topic & theme. Notice also they say " our experts". Clarity either from Political Interfaces or Media platforms who spend more. Time Chasing a Story around the back-Alleys, will Never be so up - front or straight forward on ANY subject...Let alone a pandemic

 

I prefer to follow und pick up in the Front-line "Real experts'" and their Information platforms...Then also Read between the lines..

Around Europe & various Viroligist ,Sars, designated Health  Institutional departments,who are First individual before politically collective.

 

Their direct Honestly in saying what politicians Social und medical in this pendemic Dont want to hear & thus far have ran their own agendas.

Plus most of the General-public are knob-heads, from the Intellectual to the skivvy, Holding on tightly to any crumb of soaped out positivity,instead of doing their own Basic  research of who/what is straight forward...

 

Around the World the viroligists & Front lines for Sars-strains & Covid....have been rather boring...

and have been saying all along...They Dont know!!!   though they learn in & through  each period,where given Experience & translated Knowledge helps them slowly to discover new facts that then helps  First Holding onto Covid, try to stabalise and bring slowly Control over its various life  effects plus After effects problematics...

 

In a pandemic, which we are still in ...there is no cure or for Blame searching Attitudes

when General-public dumbnuts know less, & do less than the People they want to crucify...

 

Plus the average Frontline media, have created a Communication Platform that is neither here nor there and Major Covid POI issues & public interest gets lost..

For basics ,(Not stats) I find the RKI a decent One of the best into platforms. 

 

 

 

Edited 3 November 2021 by fuchsntf

[leicsmac]

9 hours ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

Another human failing is our gullibility in trusting these so-called experts even when they so obviously haven't a clue and counter argue among themselves. Track and trace anyone?

 

As Mark Twain said " it's easier to lie to someone, than it is to convince them they have been lied too"

...then who does one trust on the matter of the world around us? Someone with a slick voice and a good YouTube video?

 

Like I said, the peer review system is an imperfect system and relies on dynamism when other people prefer certainty and dislike flip-flopping, but it's still better than any other system yet devised for figuring out how the world works.

[PAPA LAZAROU]

7 hours ago, leicsmac said:

...then who does one trust on the matter of the world around us? Someone with a slick voice and a good YouTube video?

 

Like I said, the peer review system is an imperfect system and relies on dynamism when other people prefer certainty and dislike flip-flopping, but it's still better than any other system yet devised for figuring out how the world works.

It's simple trust no one. Go with your own instincts . Treat everything and most of all the ruling classes with suspicion and disregard, and the media in particular. That way you will have a level playing field in your mind and a clarity to see things as they really are. The attitude of " I suppose they must know what they are doing " is how tyrants get into power and flourish. You will never be a lion if you settle for being a sheep.

Edited 4 November 2021 by PAPA LAZAROU

[leicsmac]

38 minutes ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

It's simple trust no one. Go with your own instincts . Treat everything and most of all the ruling classes with suspicion and disregard, and the media in particular. That way you will have a level playing field in your mind and a clarity to see things as they really are. The attitude of " I suppose they must know what they are doing " is how tyrants get into power and flourish. You will never be a lion if you settle for being a sheep.

Every man an island, huh?

 

Noble sentiment. But it's exactly how the world - or our species anyway - ends.

[PAPA LAZAROU]

Just now, leicsmac said:

Every man an island, huh?

 

Noble sentiment. But it's exactly how the world - or our species anyway - ends.

I never said that . And well you know it. lets leave it here eh?

[jgtuk]

1 minute ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

I never said that . And well you know it. lets leave it here eh?

You must be a Prepper

[FoxesDeb]

26 minutes ago, jgtuk said:

You must be a Prepper

I had to Google that, so thank you, I have learnt something 

[SpacedX]

59 minutes ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

It's simple trust no one. 

No one least of all @leicsmac is suggesting that you should, but known science on the other hand being governed by its own physical laws which are demonstrable, therefore has a voice of its own. Should we trust our government? No. Patriotism, as far as I am concerned, involves distrusting the government. Keep them in check. They are our employees...they are to represent us, yet they are frequently self-serving. But that distrust is pointless if we're fooled into thinking that your government is always up to something and can't discern when it is, and when it isn't - or detracts from genuine corruption or duplicity. Simply because a government or administration has historically lied or deceived the people it does not automatically follow that every random conspiracy theory or internet claim of one's arbitrary choice or devising must be true. A syllogistic fallacy.

1 hour ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

Go with your own instincts . 

Your own instincts tell you that the sun revolves around the earth. 

 

1 hour ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

Treat everything and most of all the ruling classes with suspicion and disregard, and social media in particular. 

Agree, quick tweak for you - oddly you omitted it. 

 

And I think most agree, but as Leicsmac was saying, defer instead to independently verifiable evidence and known science instead.

 

1 hour ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

 That way you will have a level playing field in your mind and a clarity to see things as they really are. 

 One of the hallmarks of subjective cognitive bias is those that insist they are objective visionaries. Tabula rasa is momentary. We are all conditioned from the day we are born. 

1 hour ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

 The attitude of " I suppose they must know what they are doing " is how tyrants get into power and flourish. 

I don't think anyone is advocating that - least of all @leicsmac

1 hour ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

You will never be a lion if you settle for being a sheep.

Is this serious? 

 

The only people that insist on using that term are ridiculous gullible online scientific illiterates under the delusion that bleating conspiracy theory makes them sound clever. 

 

 

[leicsmac]

53 minutes ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

I never said that . And well you know it. lets leave it here eh?

I'm curious to know what else "It's simple, trust no one" means, then, if not relying only on yourself.

 

But if you'd like to leave it at that, then fair enough.

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

It's simple trust no one. Go with your own instincts . Treat everything and most of all the ruling classes with suspicion and disregard, and the media in particular. That way you will have a level playing field in your mind and a clarity to see things as they really are. The attitude of " I suppose they must know what they are doing " is how tyrants get into power and flourish. You will never be a lion if you settle for being a sheep.

Sorry mate but that’s bollux 

 

you’ll just sit in your living room hiding under the table 

 

as far as covid vaccines are concerned, do you really think that all the doctors out there have taken this without serious consideration?  And it’s not just something that’s being done in the U.K. - it’s the entire world.  
 

Do you fly?  do you get on a train?  Do you take a taxi ?  What about going to a cinema or a theatre?  
 

all of those are potential insurance claims for the ruling classes ….. I wouldn’t bother with any of them - trust your instincts ? 
 

and don’t eat anything you haven’t grown in your garden ……

[PAPA LAZAROU]

 Interesting reply's I'll bear them all in mind. Thank you all.

Edited 4 November 2021 by PAPA LAZAROU

[PAPA LAZAROU]

1 hour ago, Line-X said:

No one least of all @leicsmac is suggesting that you should, but known science on the other hand being governed by its own physical laws which are demonstrable, therefore has a voice of its own. Should we trust our government? No. Patriotism, as far as I am concerned, involves distrusting the government. Keep them in check. They are our employees...they are to represent us, yet they are frequently self-serving. But that distrust is pointless if we're fooled into thinking that your government is always up to something and can't discern when it is, and when it isn't - or detracts from genuine corruption or duplicity. Simply because a government or administration has historically lied or deceived the people it does not automatically follow that every random conspiracy theory or internet claim of one's arbitrary choice or devising must be true. A syllogistic fallacy.

Your own instincts tell you that the sun revolves around the earth. 

 

Agree, quick tweak for you - oddly you omitted it. 

 

And I think most agree, but as Leicsmac was saying, defer instead to independently verifiable evidence and known science instead.

 

 One of the hallmarks of subjective cognitive bias is those that insist they are objective visionaries. Tabula rasa is momentary. We are all conditioned from the day we are born. 

I don't think anyone is advocating that - least of all @leicsmac

Is this serious? 

 

The only people that insist on using that term are ridiculous gullible online scientific illiterates under the delusion that bleating conspiracy theory makes them sound clever. 

 

 

The irony of your last line is there for all to see. now who's seeking to sound clever?

[PAPA LAZAROU]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

I'm curious to know what else "It's simple, trust no one" means, then, if not relying only on yourself.

 

But if you'd like to leave it at that, then fair enough.

Yes I would and thank you for the reply's.

[jgtuk]

6 minutes ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

Yes I would and thank you for the reply's.

*Replies

[PAPA LAZAROU]

3 minutes ago, jgtuk said:

*Replies

Thank you.

[SpacedX]

32 minutes ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

The irony of your last line is there for all to see. now who's seeking to sound clever?

I am irrelevant to this exchange. As I said, the known science that you reject has a voice of its own. I'm not seeking to sound clever in the slightest - and I certainly wouldn't brand those that are cleverer than myself as "sheep" simply because they don't say what I want to hear. 

 

"Sheep" is a derogatory and condescending term yes? Also, those that are susceptible to the online conspiracy theory that I'm referring to are by virtue of that scientifically illiterate and are the sheep themselves without realising whilst happily branding others. 

Edited 4 November 2021 by Line-X

[PAPA LAZAROU]

46 minutes ago, Line-X said:

I am irrelevant to this exchange. As I said, the known science that you reject has a voice of its own. I'm not seeking to sound clever in the slightest - and I certainly wouldn't brand those that are cleverer than myself as "sheep" simply because they don't say what I want to hear. 

 

"Sheep" is a derogatory and condescending term yes? Also, those that are susceptible to the online conspiracy theory that I'm referring to are by virtue of that scientifically illiterate and are the sheep themselves without realising whilst happily branding others. 

Good grief your whole posts come across as condescending and derogatory. Being a pseudo intellectual who is in the habit of using ten words when one would suffice doesn't make for intelligent debate. you are indeed sir irrelevant. 

[SpacedX]

14 minutes ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

Good grief your whole posts come across as condescending and derogatory. Being a pseudo intellectual who is in the habit of using ten words when one would suffice doesn't make for intelligent debate. you are indeed sir irrelevant. 

And branding other people as "sheep" does? Ok.

 

I'd like to also ask you, when you say "It's simple, trust no one" - arrogance aside - what specifically did you mean, if not relying on your own frame of reference? 

[jgtuk]

1 minute ago, Line-X said:

And branding other people as "sheep" does? Ok.

 

I'd like to also ask you, when you say "It's simple, trust no one" - arrogance aside - what specifically did you mean, if not relying on your own frame of reference? 

He doesn't know which is why he wants to leave it at that.

[hejammy]

4 hours ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

It's simple trust no one. Go with your own instincts . Treat everything and most of all the ruling classes with suspicion and disregard, and the media in particular. That way you will have a level playing field in your mind and a clarity to see things as they really are. The attitude of " I suppose they must know what they are doing " is how tyrants get into power and flourish. You will never be a lion if you settle for being a sheep.

 

The actual irony here is that if everyone had this attitude then we would live in a world resembling prehistoric times when we were all cave men. Nothing would ever get past "I've invented something" before someone says "Don't believe you, you're a liar, it's voodoo magic"

 

The world is based on trust, the trust that others have more information on you pertaining to different matters, you cannot know everything and be a master at everything. Do your research on the individual, not on the community as a whole. Do you ever see your GP? Do you ever take the medicines he prescribes? If so why if you just want to trust no one?

Edited 4 November 2021 by hejammy