Tin Foil Hat Conspiracy Thread

[the fox]

Just now, leicsmac said:

An alien civilisation that has the capacity for interstellar travel would likely be so far ahead of us technologically that not only would they be able to hide from us perfectly if they wanted, but it's also likely their very thoughts and intent would be incomprehensible to us.

Which is scarier? They think like us so they have the same ability for malice or not?

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

Which alien invasion movie is likely to be the most realistic? (If it ever were to happen) 

The 3-body problem (TV show though, not movie).

 

Just now, the fox said:

Which is scarier? They think like us so they have the same ability for malice or not?

Better for them to be inscrutable than malicious because their power level would be far, far higher than ours.

[samlcfc]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

The topic is fascinating.

 

Personally, I think the Zoo Hypothesis is as plausible as any other, and while spacefaring life might be a stretch, it's equally plausible that we'll find simple microbial life in our own Solar System. Soon.

Definitely. The topic of a alien life is incredibly interesting, from our understanding of microbial life to a potential human-level intelligence or beyond, regardless of interaction with the earth.

 

Further, I think beyond the surface level sterotypes and tropes associated with people who discuss things like UFO's/UAPs, there's a nuanced community of people exploring a cultural phenomenon spanning millenia in the context of science and philosophy.

 

Personally, I feel that if you're comfortable sitting back and considering how intrinsically bizarre reality is, there's a good few topics that become to sound a little less ridiculous at least for some theoretical discussion. Considering what we don't know, the science that we're so far bound to can stretch quite a long way when you really get into it.

[Zear0]

7 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

Which alien invasion movie is likely to be the most realistic? (If it ever were to happen) 

Mars Attacks

[leicsmac]

Just now, Zear0 said:

Mars Attacks

[samlcfc]

19 minutes ago, the fox said:

In theory, you would think a civilisation outside our own that managed to reach this far has some tech for camouflage (assuming they have the same train of thought as humans).

 

Isn't for or against the existence of alians btw.

One thing I like to consider as a thought experiment occasionally, is our perception of reality being human-centric.

 

There's a guy called Donald Hoffman who discusses perception of reality as defined by natural selection having led to us only perceiving things in a way which enhances survival and reproduction. Considering this, we would not perceive the true reality. For example, a cup of water would not exist as an independent physical object, but part of an interface with some true reality....a mental construct to allow us to interact with reality in a meaningful way.

 

In this version of reality, a non-human intelligence might exist in a fundamentally different way and any interaction could be truly bizarre as space and time would also be part of our perceptual interface.

Edited 30 January by samlcfc

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, samlcfc said:

One thing I like to consider as a thought experiment occasionally, is our perception of reality being human-centric.

 

There's a guy called Donald Hoffman who discusses perception of reality as defined by natural selection having led to us only perceiving things in a way which enhances survival and reproduction. Considering this, we would not perceive the true reality. For example, a cup of water would not exist as an independent physical object, but part of an interface with some true reality....a mental construct to allow us to interact with reality in a meaningful way.

 

In this version of reality, a non-human intelligence might exist in a fundamentally different way and any interaction could be truly bizarre as space and time would also be part of our perceptual interface.

There's something in this.

 

Our perception is always going to be limited by our five senses and the way our brains interpret them. Those limitations are far from universal.

[the fox]

18 minutes ago, samlcfc said:

Definitely. The topic of a alien life is incredibly interesting, from our understanding of microbial life to a potential human-level intelligence or beyond, regardless of interaction with the earth.

But can we really build an argument for the existence of extraterrestrial life on life evolving outside our planet when under (theoretically) the perfect environment for macroevolution/abiogenesis, there is no empirical evidence for it here to begin with? 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, the fox said:

But can we really build an argument for the existence of extraterrestrial life on life evolving outside our planet when under (theoretically) the perfect environment for macroevolution/abiogenesis, there is no empirical evidence for it here to begin with? 

Yes.

 

The mechanism by which animals change into others is not really relevant imo - there is no reason to suspect, regardless of mechanism, that such a mechanism wouldn't take place in other places as well as our own.

[samlcfc]

6 minutes ago, the fox said:

But can we really build an argument for the existence of extraterrestrial life on life evolving outside our planet when under (theoretically) the perfect environment for macroevolution/abiogenesis, there is no empirical evidence for it here to begin with? 

My initial thoughts would be that considering life has occured on earth, we know that it has the capacity to occur at least once given the appropriate conditions. Further, we can't necessarily be confident that conditions here are uniquely suited for it to have happened. This logic would suggest to me that beyond a religious approach to considering the topic and considering the vast number of planets / moons out there, it seems that similar life could exist elsewhere. Absense of evidence could just mean we don't fully understand how it came about yet. 

[the fox]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Yes.

 

The mechanism by which animals change into others is not really relevant imo - there is no reason to suspect, regardless of mechanism, that such a mechanism wouldn't take place in other places as well as our own.

But the problem is, the mechanism doesn't even exist (be it a change of species or abiogenesis)

[the fox]

5 minutes ago, samlcfc said:

My initial thoughts would be that considering life has occured on earth, we know that it has the capacity to occur at least once given the appropriate conditions. Further, we can't necessarily be confident that conditions here are uniquely suited for it to have happened. This logic would suggest to me that beyond a religious approach to considering the topic and considering the vast number of planets / moons out there, it seems that similar life could exist elsewhere. Absense of evidence could just mean we don't fully understand how it came about yet. 

Maybe the argument here is the limiting of life outside our planet to strictly organic-based lifeform? But like i said before, am neither for or against the existence of alians.

Edited 30 January by the fox

[samlcfc]

14 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

There's something in this.

 

Our perception is always going to be limited by our five senses and the way our brains interpret them. Those limitations are far from universal.

Outside of any discussion of what we could be capable of biologically, would you consider that we might develop technology that would allow us to perceive beyond the sensory prison of this scenario?

 

I'm not sure what I think of this, but it occured to me that scientists even now go some way to detecting things beyond our sensory capabilities with regards to quantum physics. I can't decide if that's relevant or not

 

[samlcfc]

2 minutes ago, the fox said:

Maybe the argument here is the limiting of life outside our planet to strictly organic-based lifeform? But like i said before, am neither for or against the existence of alians.

Yeh, somewhat. I'd consider it a possibility, although organic lifeforms are a possibility also. I was trying to say that humans don't really understand the full picture to say either way.

 

Me neither. I don't suppose it really matters overall, but it's a fun conversation!

 

[the fox]

2 minutes ago, samlcfc said:

Yeh, somewhat. I'd consider it a possibility, although organic lifeforms are a possibility also. I was trying to say that humans don't really understand the full picture to say either way.

 

Me neither. I don't suppose it really matters overall, but it's a fun conversation!

 

100% in agreement with you here.

[leicsmac]

12 minutes ago, the fox said:

But the problem is, the mechanism doesn't even exist (be it a change of species or abiogenesis)

Yeah, what @samlcfc and yourself have been saying these past few posts is what I'd settle on.

[Grebfromgrebland]

If you believe in God then you believe in aliens. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

Unless someone, including any Interstellar beings, overcomes the restrictions of sub-lightspeed travel, we'll never know.

 

Also, what if life does exist in other stellar systems, but humans are the most advanced. (I use the word advanced loosely).

 

And if it's in a different galaxy, well meh.

[Trumpet]

This has been far too sensible a discussion for this thread! Maybe one day the UFO/UAP/NHI conversation will have its own thread. 
 

Something’s changed and something’s happening. As has been mentioned already, it’s fascinating and making a great story.

[Trumpet]

1 hour ago, the fox said:

Which is scarier? They think like us so they have the same ability for malice or not?

I often think of how we raise and slaughter cattle for food. Any other beings may not care for us or think in a way that values our life. We could taste good to them.

[ozleicester]

The "antisemitic" graffitti etc in Australia currently is organised and paid for by ...Mos.... um... foreign actors

[blabyboy]

4 hours ago, Samilktray said:

Which alien invasion movie is likely to be the most realistic? (If it ever were to happen) 

Arrival is probably the most accurate imo.

 

The Abyss is a good watch if you are looking for something not set in space but equally thought provoking and relevant to these times.

[Trav Le Bleu]

7 hours ago, ozleicester said:

The "antisemitic" graffitti etc in Australia currently is organised and paid for by ...Mos Eisley spaceport.

A hive of scum and villainy.

[SpacedX]

 

[simFox]

Aliens might come here regularly, but space time isn't continuous, so 50,000 years have passed since they came last week.