Fickle Boneheads

[Katy]

That's such a lazy argument, it doesn't take into consideration any of the mechanics of football. Things really aren't that black and white, you simply can't judge a manager/team in our situation by results or league position alone. You need to look at the larger picture and judge him on more than just the final score line.

Maybe if you went to some of the matches you'd see beyond the final score? Now, before you get defensive that's not meant as a slur on you or your commitment to the club. It's just an undeniable fact - if you attend regularly you are in a more informed position from which to offer opinion.

As I said, if you'd gone to the Watford match you'd have seen that we performed well all over the picth for the majority of the game. You'd have seen the good things that Kisnorbo, MDV, Hammond etc contibute and you'd also see the mistakes that Smith, Gerrbrand, Stearman etc make. That is, you'd have a more balanced view and a better appreciation of both the teams performance and the individual players performances. You'd have seen a Leicetser team contain a Watford team who are third in the league, full of confidence and promising talent. A Leicetser team that, and this really needs stressing, was picked by CL. In fact, largely a team of players that were brought to this club by CL.

Okay, so the substitutions made were a bit wonky, I didn't see the point of them tbh (except for Smith), but, at the same time I don't think they overly contributed to the equaliser. Watford didn't equalise because they all of a sudden got command of the game due to 'tactically inept substitutions', as some would have us believe. Things didn't change that much after the subs. The reason Watford equalised was becuase they were bloody lucky, caught the defence off guard with a speculative punt into the box. Shit happens in football, that's just the way it is. Football isn't fair, it never has been.

Seems to me like too many people are over reacting to the negatives whenever we lose. Seems to me that too many people are over simplifying the possible solutions to our current problems. Seems to me that too many people are too easily dismissing the posistives about our performances/players. Seems to me like a lot of people need to take a step back, have a good think about where we've been over the past 2 years and hopefully get a more realistic perspective on what is/was/will be achievable this season.

A lot of the above is true mate. It was a lazy argument on my behalf. But I've stated my reasons for having lost faith in Levein before so many times, I just cannot be bothered any more.

I don't think he has what it takes in terms of tactical thinking or motivational prowess and I'm now starting to doubt his man-management skills too.

I appreciate I haven't been to many games.. as you say, it's an undeniable truth. I've only seen City play twice this year and one of those occassions was on Sky.

I believe I am realistic. I'm not demanding promotion. I'm not demanding anything. I just haven't seen much improvement under CL. The average age of the squad has been reduced, which is indeed a welcome change.. but already I'm very concerned that performance and results wise, CL doesn't have what it takes.

Thing is though theres only a few ways you can put your thoughts on CL accross without saying the same thing over and over again. Hence the 'lazy' reply I guess.

[The People's Hero]

Exactly.

Sorry it was a lazy, lazy post.

[Chimp]

[..] I believe I am realistic. I'm not demanding promotion. I'm not demanding anything. I just haven't seen much improvement under CL. The average age of the squad has been reduced, which is indeed a welcome change.. but already I'm very concerned that performance and results wise, CL doesn't have what it takes.

That's because the only criteria you seem be judging him on is results. Now, I know this is going to sound strange but I don't think results matter that much, not for this season. This season is more about building the foundations of a side that can be successful in the following couple of seasons.

In regard to league position I never had any expectations for this season, I never expected anything else than mid-table obscurity. I only expected a season of inconsistency and frustration while at the same time looking and hoping for signs that the backbone of a decent team was beginning to form. I believe we are seeing that happen.

Maybe this is where we differ?

[Nationwider]

Seems to me like too many people are over reacting to the negatives whenever we lose. Seems to me that too many people are over simplifying the possible solutions to our current problems. Seems to me that too many people are too easily dismissing the posistives about our performances/players. Seems to me like a lot of people need to take a step back, have a good think about where we've been over the past 2 years and hopefully get a more realistic perspective on what is/was/will be achievable this season.

I'd frame and mount that. Well said.

It's exactly how I feel. However, I've not forked out £400 for a ST so I'm diluting the relevance of my opinions somewhat.

[The People's Hero]

Perhaps so.

I have the issues with Levein which we have already listed but also that he is SO cautious and negative and I'd just rather have a positive approach. I believe it serves better in this division.

As far as off the pitch, Levein seems to have done a decent job, although his man-management seems to leave a little to be desired and as you say, as long as we don't go down, league position will be unimportant so long as there is a clear improvement in performances. I would question whether that is really the case, although, as we've established I haven't seen anywhere near as much live football as you have this season.

[davieG]

I'd frame and mount that. Well said.

It's exactly how I feel. However, I've not forked out £400 for a ST so I'm diluting the relevance of my opinions somewhat.

Well I've forked out £600 on two tickets, but I don't think that makes my opinion any more important than anyone else that goes regularly.

From my perspective I try not to comment on away games because one thing I've learn't is that radio commentaries are a total fiction.

[Katy]

Well I've forked out £600 on two tickets, but I don't think that makes my opinion any more important than anyone else that goes regularly.

From my perspective I try not to comment on away games because one thing I've learn't is that radio commentaries are a total fiction.

Same here!

Leicester have scored....not its Burnley

[Nationwider]

Well I've forked out £600 on two tickets, but I don't think that makes my opinion any more important than anyone else that goes regularly.

From my perspective I try not to comment on away games because one thing I've learn't is that radio commentaries are a total fiction.

I'm only doing away ones this year (about 10 hopefully), with the odd trip to the Stadium Of Doom thrown in at Crimbo.

The reason I use this site is that I don't want to rely on the views of the local media for my LCFC info. Radio Leicester and the Merc just don't cut it for the discerning Foxile.

[Anish]

I'm with the critics, unsurprisingly. At the end of last season we all said we wanted to see an improvement, in terms of performances and results. I wasn't demanding promotion or top 6 but something better than 15th and would give us some hope and belief.

Hoewever, in terms or results nothing has changed, in fact some could say results have been worse. We are only 3 points off relegation. As for performances, they have been more disappointing imo. Despite having a better and younger sqaud, we still rarely look like scoring and are unbelievably dull. So much so that I have been well and truly deterred from watching them and wasting my money on Levein's all-out-defence system.

As for the Watford game, the stats show the damning conclusions. 11 v 10 for the whole of the second half, yet we still lose the half 1-0. Abysmal. Only Levein can pull that out of the hat.

Oh, and anybody who thinks Paddy Kisnorbo is a footballer let alone captain of LCFC needs to be put down imo.

[Hullfox]

That's such a lazy argument, it doesn't take into consideration any of the mechanics of football. Things really aren't that black and white, you simply can't judge a manager/team in our situation by results or league position alone. You need to look at the larger picture and judge him on more than just the final score line.

Larger picture shows to me that we have reducing gates and some players that are not good enough to wear the shirt if we aspire to anything better. Player selection and man management have to have question marks over them.

Maybe if you went to some of the matches you'd see beyond the final score? Now, before you get defensive that's not meant as a slur on you or your commitment to the club. It's just an undeniable fact - if you attend regularly you are in a more informed position from which to offer opinion.

All home and lots of away. I have never in 20 years felt more like chucking it all in

As I said, if you'd gone to the Watford match you'd have seen that we performed well all over the picth for the majority of the game. You'd have seen the good things that Kisnorbo, MDV, Hammond etc contibute and you'd also see the mistakes that Smith, Gerrbrand, Stearman etc make. That is, you'd have a more balanced view and a better appreciation of both the teams performance and the individual players performances. You'd have seen a Leicetser team contain a Watford team who are third in the league, full of confidence and promising talent. A Leicetser team that, and this really needs stressing, was picked by CL. In fact, largely a team of players that were brought to this club by CL.

Sorry but I don't see anything good about Kisnorbo's contribution. Hammond should not be starting as a striker. Watford are third and didn't look that special. Maybe that was because we contained them but they know how to kill games off. They've won more games in a row than we've won all season.

Okay, so the substitutions made were a bit wonky, I didn't see the point of them tbh (except for Smith), but, at the same time I don't think they overly contributed to the equaliser. Watford didn't equalise because they all of a sudden got command of the game due to 'tactically inept substitutions', as some would have us believe. Things didn't change that much after the subs. The reason Watford equalised was becuase they were bloody lucky, caught the defence off guard with a speculative punt into the box. Shit happens in football, that's just the way it is. Football isn't fair, it never has been.

Wonky??? To me, wonky is something that is slightly off centre, these substitutions broke up any minimal amount of flow we had. It wasn't lucky either. They were quick to close us down in the last third of the pitch, seizing on a defensive mistake, not a piece of bad luck.

Seems to me like too many people are over reacting to the negatives whenever we lose. Seems to me that too many people are over simplifying the possible solutions to our current problems. Seems to me that too many people are too easily dismissing the posistives about our performances/players. Seems to me like a lot of people need to take a step back, have a good think about where we've been over the past 2 years and hopefully get a more realistic perspective on what is/was/will be achievable this season.

Seems to me that the negatives outweigh the positives too much at the minute. I'd be happier if we looked like scoring regularly but we just don't. I think every one is completely aware of what will be achievable this season but it just falls well short of where we would like it to be. I was optimistic that things would improve on the pitch this year but the have not. People are currently voting with their feet and that will only change by a turnaround of results I'm afraid. That might not suit some who think we should build for the long term but it's football, and as we know, football isn't fair.

[Manwell Pablo]

That's such a lazy argument, it doesn't take into consideration any of the mechanics of football. Things really aren't that black and white, you simply can't judge a manager/team in our situation by results or league position alone. You need to look at the larger picture and judge him on more than just the final score line.

Maybe if you went to some of the matches you'd see beyond the final score? Now, before you get defensive that's not meant as a slur on you or your commitment to the club. It's just an undeniable fact - if you attend regularly you are in a more informed position from which to offer opinion.

As I said, if you'd gone to the Watford match you'd have seen that we performed well all over the picth for the majority of the game. You'd have seen the good things that Kisnorbo, MDV, Hammond etc contibute and you'd also see the mistakes that Smith, Gerrbrand, Stearman etc make. That is, you'd have a more balanced view and a better appreciation of both the teams performance and the individual players performances. You'd have seen a Leicetser team contain a Watford team who are third in the league, full of confidence and promising talent. A Leicetser team that, and this really needs stressing, was picked by CL. In fact, largely a team of players that were brought to this club by CL.

Okay, so the substitutions made were a bit wonky, I didn't see the point of them tbh (except for Smith), but, at the same time I don't think they overly contributed to the equaliser. Watford didn't equalise because they all of a sudden got command of the game due to 'tactically inept substitutions', as some would have us believe. Things didn't change that much after the subs. The reason Watford equalised was becuase they were bloody lucky, caught the defence off guard with a speculative punt into the box. Shit happens in football, that's just the way it is. Football isn't fair, it never has been.

Seems to me like too many people are over reacting to the negatives whenever we lose. Seems to me that too many people are over simplifying the possible solutions to our current problems. Seems to me that too many people are too easily dismissing the posistives about our performances/players. Seems to me like a lot of people need to take a step back, have a good think about where we've been over the past 2 years and hopefully get a more realistic perspective on what is/was/will be achievable this season.

Well lets be completley honest the only good two good things Kisnorbo has done this season are a) score the goal against Watford B) Kiss the LCFC Badge affterwards.

He had a good game, apart from that the negatives have far outweighed the postives, he hasn't looked like a good footballer ( at least the kind of footballer I expect to pay money to see perform at my club ).

I see hammond get muscled off the ball V Southampton, get caught off side time and time again vs Watoford, have zero effect against Watford (A) and Blackpool.

You cannot compare the ammount of mistakes Smith Gerrbrand and Stearmen make to that off Hammond MDV ( I Like the player ) and Kisnorbo. There is a common conception that the the former three are good players and that the latter are not. This common conception has not come from out of space. Obvisouly all players make mistakes. but Smith and Gerrbrands overall play has been of a very good standerd, where as Hammond ( abliet not a bad game on Tuesday ) and Kisnorbo ( Watford away I thought he looked very good ) have generaly been poor.

The people saying certain things about certain players may not go to games, but they can see and hear whats going on and can base some sort of opinion on a couple of game.

and to give one example. I would certainly not go to ANY LCFC GAME if i lived in Maidstone.

I could go on, the comments concerning radio commentry lying aren't entritly true. they do give a half accurate review of the game. They are often however extreme.

[Ultra]

In all the debates there have been on this board in recent days, I have yet to see ONE satisfactory argument from the dwindling band of Levein loyalists explaining why we are doing so badly this season.

Our record in every respect has got WORSE since last November when he took over. Fewer points, fewer goals, more goals conceded and more disturbingly lower crowds both home and away (the turnout of FOXES at Burnley last week was barely half that at Wigan, a ground of similar distance, for the corresponding weekend a year ago). And don't try to argue that the quality of the football is better than in the last days of Adams, because the evidence of the past two months clearly indicates that isn't the case.

The cries of "no money to spend" are nonsense. He's blown close to a million this season alone on Hume, Hammond and Gilbert. Of those three, two are not deemed worthy of a place in the side and the third is woefully out of his depth. This record hardly enhances the fans' faith in his judgment.

Meanwhile we're being outperformed by several smaller clubs (Burnley, QPR, Luton, Watford and Preston to name but five) where the managers have all achieved more on far fewer resources than have been available here. What could the reason be for this? I'd suggest that the managers of those clubs are far more aware of the demands of this league, and are therefore better equipped to deal with them.

The board must have known when they appointed CL that his inexperience in English football made him a potential risk. Right now it appears that they will have to admit the error of their ways sooner rather than later.

Only a long unbeaten run could turn it round for him, but that would require far greater stabilty in team selection than has been evident to date. And if that involves playing non-specialist left backs, or retaining Sylla and Kisnorbo when their form clearly doesn't deserve that, it isn't going to happen.

A line was crossed on Tuesday night. Many FOXES previously sympathetic to Levein have now switched to the anti camp. It's a process we witnessed with Adams and previously also with Taylor and Pleat.

It's now a question of when, not if, he'll go.

[Louise]

In all the debates there have been on this board in recent days, I have yet to see ONE satisfactory argument from the dwindling band of Levein loyalists explaining why we are doing so badly this season.

Do you not accept that a new squad with lots of young players could be a factor then?

Most of those smaller clubs you mention have had a base of players to work from who have been at the clun for years, we've only got a handfull who have been here for longer than a season.

I'm not sure what 'line was crossed' on Tuesday night, we scored two goals and played well for a large part of the match.

[Dr The Singh]

Do you not accept that a new squad with lots of young players could be a factor then?

Most of those smaller clubs you mention have had a base of players to work from who have been at the clun for years, we've only got a handfull who have been here for longer than a season.

I'm not sure what 'line was crossed' on Tuesday night, we scored two goals and played well for a large part of the match.

Yes it is a factor but so are CL tactics and decision making etc, which IMO cost us the game on tuesday!!!

[woznotwos]

I understand both points of view to the argument. CL has built a young squad with little money,his signings have been nothing short of reasonable on the whole . His team choices bemuse me as does his tactics . Whether we are playing better or worse than last year,the sad fact is that we are really close to the bottom of this division..do we keep giving cl the benefit of the doubt until we are relegated?or do we cling on in the hope that we can just avoid the drop, i too thought this would be a teambuilding season but was not expecting us to be in as low as position as we are. Another fact is, would a new manager make us any better!! This is the argument!! Obviously he'll be using virtually the same squad all season as CL bar perhaps 1 or 2 cheap aquisitions in the transfer window . So it all comes down to having faith in CL's tactical awareness,if you dont then he should go,if you do then he should stay . im sitting on fence still at moment but im leaning one way and no doubt you can all see which!!

[Fez of Mahrez]

I don't think the current anti-Levein feeling has a lot to do with results. The results lately haven't been absolutely dreadful and we're as high in the table now as we have been all season. The main problem is that Levein is now solely accountable for a lot of our problems. He signed Hammond, Hume and de Vries. Hammond is simply never going to be a striker good enough to stand up to some of the players Leicester have been lucky enough to have up front in recent years. Players like Iwan Roberts, Ian Marshall and Paul Dickov were never fashionable (in more ways than one!) or viewed as top Premiership strikers by outsiders yet they did a damn good job of looking like them as far as I'm concerned. When you look at the goalscoring threat that Hammond and de Vries pose defences in comparison with previous striking partnerships, the result is frustratingly lame. A manager survives or perishes by his decisions and he signed both of these two and they will bring him down if he continues to play them. They do not live up to the standards we have come to expect. Incidentally, for all the supposed threat that Hammond poses we might as well have kept Tommy Wright in my opinion - Hammond is like Benjamin without the strength, bizarrely reasonable goal tally and, most importantly, priceless comedy value.

I realise this post has turned into an anti-Elvis Hammond rant but that is what happens when you buy strikers who can't score. With the way the defence has been playing lately, five or six goals in recent games would have been enough to put us comfortably in the top half of the table. Watford home game apart when one of our goals was a penalty, 0-0, 0-1, 0-0, 0-0, 1-1, 0-0, 0-1 for much longer and we're going to be deeply involved in a relegation fight.

[Thracian]

That's because the only criteria you seem be judging him on is results. Now, I know this is going to sound strange but I don't think results matter that much, not for this season. This season is more about building the foundations of a side that can be successful in the following couple of seasons.

In regard to league position I never had any expectations for this season, I never expected anything else than mid-table obscurity. I only expected a season of inconsistency and frustration while at the same time looking and hoping for signs that the backbone of a decent team was beginning to form. I believe we are seeing that happen.

Maybe this is where we differ?

I cannot emphasise enough my own disillusionment with Levein is NOT primarily about results. Of course, if we were successful results-wise, then any argument about his future would be pointless.

But we're not and all of us have started to wonder why. If we were playing quality football, with our best team and getting the wrong rub of the green, fans would still be loathe to say "enough".

No - my complaints about Levein are not results based:

a) He has no charisma.

b) He has no inclination to entertain.

c) He is too cautious...which has continually cost us points.

d) He is tactically inept.... which has continually cost us points.

e) His selections are bizarre

f) Two high a proportion of his signings are sub-standard

g) He seems to be a poor motivator

h) His approach is emptying our ground rapidly

I hope that is enough to make the reasons for my views clear.

Some successful managers have had some of the above failings - but certainly not all of them.

[Louise]

Yes it is a factor but so are CL tactics and decision making etc, which IMO cost us the game on tuesday!!!

Well I thought it was the fault of the players (Douglas, the wall) myself. But then it is all about opinions...

[The People's Hero]

I would certainly not go to ANY LCFC GAME if i lived in Maidstone.

I've been to see one... I can see how people might think my view isn't as valid as someone who goes every week. I'd be the first to admit that I base a lot of my opinions on the football I have seen and on the posts of other's on here who have a similar outlook to me on football in general.

I'm not stupid and I don't say things which have no justification or reasoning behind them.. but the point remains, I don't go to all the games. If you lot who do can honestly say we are getting better and have made real improvements then fair enough.

I'll say this, from Maidstone, with just internet coverage, highlights and the occasional trip to see us play I don't think Levein is good enough tactically or motivationally and critically I don't think he tries to go out and win a game often enough. He needs to focus on us and our game, not be distracted in to trying to nullify the opposition. Let them worry about us for a change.

[Anish]

Too right TPH

As everyone keeps saying, Levein is driving the fans away - and I'm one of them.