We can play 4-4-2/4-4-1-1 again

[Shane]

If we bring in the right manager, we can return to our 4-4-2/4-4-1-1 counter attacking system. Works pretty well for Villarreal so why not us .

 

We’d still have to sign a few players, a CB, RW, box to box CM and a ST. But we won’t need to sign a huge amount as we have plenty of players who would suit this system:

 

Defenders:

 

Fofana & Evans fit the 4-4-2 well. Amartey is an ok last resort option.

 

Luke Thomas would make a good defensive fullback.

 

JJ/Ricardo/Castagne could still get forward in this system.

 

Midfield:

KDH would make a good box to box midfielder.

 

Ndidi has played in a 4-4-2 for us before and done well.

 

Soumare played in a 4-4-2 for Lille. Maybe he would excel in this system? 
 

Choudhury might be an ok 5th choice option. Or Braybrooke.

 

Attack:

 

Vardy, Maddison, Iheanacho & Daka would be good options for the front 2. Would sign one more striker, maybe someone like De Ketelaere. Have Alves in and around the squad too. 
 

Albrighton fits this system well. Barnes not so much, he would have to be a sub option. Might need to sign 2 first choice wingers. Alves/Wanya/De Ketelaere could provide cover on the wings however, so maybe just 1 winger is required? 

 

@SheppyFoxlaid this out much better than me in his post, but overall, I think we have a squad which can be converted back to this style of play and all we need is just a few signings.

 

 

Edited 8 May 2022 by Shane

[ALC Fox]

A problem with our current version of tiki taka is we don't turn up the intensity in the attacking third.

 

The idea, I think, is to move the ball around and then switch up the intensity and to pull players out of position and create space for players to run into, then slow it down to give your players a breather and take the sting out of games when needed.

 

But we've just stopped seeing that intensity in the final third. It's at its best when Barnes is flying down the left interchanging with KDH, Thomas and/or Justin, or when Perez, Ricardo/Castagne and Tielemans were interchanging down the right and creating avenues in the inside forward areas.

 

One tactical monstrosity I'm currently seeing is having Fofana as the middle CB in a three. He's a fantastic defender but he's also one of our better players who can break the lines with incisive passes and quick dribbles forward. In a back three he needs to be one of the outside CBs where he can carry the ball forward, make passes just inside to KDH or Tielemans, and join in with his own overlapping or underlapping runs. Having Amartey and Evans on the sides just adds to the pointless passing across the backline with no threat or penetration. Teams are happy to let us sit and pass the ball in front of them all day long as Evans and Amartey are rarely going to pull players out of position.

[Phube]

I miss the overlaps our wings used to have… ☹️

[lcfcben76]

I find it utterly baffling we haven’t once gone to the 4-4-2 since N’didi’s injury. 
 

Two out and out “number 8’s” in Tielemans and KDH and full backs who aren’t wing backs for me. It makes sense surely?

[HybridFox]

Honestly couldn't tell we had 3 strikers on at one point

[Shane]

15 hours ago, TK95 said:

Honestly couldn't tell we had 3 strikers on at one point

They need service. I can’t believe how little we create in Brendan’s system, its getting very bad. 

[foxes1988]

442 and counter attacking is not the only way to play.  Sure we can do that but who says that is necessarily the right thing to do.  Hel if you have to play counter attack you can easily do it playing 4231.

 

Really don't get the obsession with 442 sometimes.  Its just another formation like any other non of which are this holy grail some fans seem to seeking.

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, foxes1988 said:

442 and counter attacking is not the only way to play.  Sure we can do that but who says that is necessarily the right thing to do.  Hel if you have to play counter attack you can easily do it playing 4231.

 

Really don't get the obsession with 442 sometimes.  Its just another formation like any other non of which are this holy grail some fans seem to seeking.

...you are more likely to play counter attacking football with 4-4-2 than with 4-2-3-1!!!

 You effectively drop to invite teams on and counter with quick players up top. Playing a 5-4-1 is the ideal formation as you set traps and spring it from a deep block.

[Lambert09]

part of me thinks we just need 2 CAMs and to bin off the idea of wingers all together. 

 

sign a left back who can actually attack and let the full backs be our width.  basically the xmas tree 

 

                                JV

                      JM           Eriksen 

 

        YT replacement                  KDH

                                wilf

new wb.                                       ricky p/ JJ

 

 

 

 

Edited 9 May 2022 by Lambert09

[sacreblueits442]

16 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

part of me thinks we just need 2 CAMs and to bin off the idea of wingers all together. 

 

sign a left back who can actually attack and let the full backs be our width.  basically the xmas tree 

 

                                JV

                      JM           Eriksen 

 

        YT replacement                  KDH

                                wilf

new wb.                                       ricky p/ JJ

 

 

 

 

.....in that setup you become tied to the WBs and any replacement would have to be equally as good!!!

Aside from KDH being on the wrong side and JJ also on the wrong side we do need to have our creativity centrally, as opposed to being all at the sharp end of our attack.

[Lambert09]

23 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

.....in that setup you become tied to the WBs and any replacement would have to be equally as good!!!

Aside from KDH being on the wrong side and JJ also on the wrong side we do need to have our creativity centrally, as opposed to being all at the sharp end of our attack.

yeah i noticed kdh but couldn’t be bothered to edit. 
 

JJ however is a right back and we need to stop using players out of position for the sake of it. We can sign a left back, so we should. Can he cover there, absolutely but let’s not start another season with the plan to play players out of position. 
 

Im not suggesting we stick to a single formation but this is something that would work in certain games, especially against the better sides that tend to have the battles won in the middle of the field. How many games have we had where both of our wingers are simply passengers? 

 

I mentioned it before but we are a tagliafico style signing away from having good options for attack from the back once more. 

 

The critical piece would be of course finding that suitable youri replacement but someone like baumgatner would be great! 

Edited 9 May 2022 by Lambert09

[sacreblueits442]

13 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

JJ however is a right back and we need to stop using players out of position for the sake of it. We can’t sign a left back, so we should. Can he cover there, absolutely but let’s not start another season with the plan to play players out of position. 

....we picked him up from Luton as a Left Back!!!

He is better on the left than on the right, Rodgers seems to have played him in every defensive position except for Goal Keeper, but he has played LM,RM,RB, CB and LB. A pointer to why players are losing form, is the constant moving around in positions that Rodgers ask of them.

[Dahnsouff]

4-4-2 and you will get mullered in the middle, 4-4-1-1 less so, depends on the mobility and role of your AM

[l444ry]

4-4-2 is a outdated system these days. Anyway, whatever setup Brendan decides to play things wouldn't change. It would still end up being the same old tippy tappy, too clever by half overpassing rubbish. Same with the ridiculous argument over defending corners. Changed into a predominantly man for man system and it hasn't improved one little bit.   

[Lambert09]

36 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....we picked him up from Luton as a Left Back!!!

He is better on the left than on the right, Rodgers seems to have played him in every defensive position except for Goal Keeper, but he has played LM,RM,RB, CB and LB. A pointer to why players are losing form, is the constant moving around in positions that Rodgers ask of them.

we genuinely didn’t haha. 

 

He was a right back brought in as cover for Riccy P. He just has the ability to play on both sides.  (we had chillwell and fuchs at the time) 

 

There’s a reason brendan has kept him on the right this season.  That’s what was always baffling about castagne.. because we have 3 quality right backs and just play someone out of position. 

 

He was excellent last year on the left and i’m not against it when needed but we need a left footed full back playing wing back. Someone who will naturally whip a ball in from there. That would help eradicate a lot of the moments we get down that side and pass backwards instead of whipping the ball in. Just think how often fuchs was able to swing an early ball in from that side? we don’t have that at all because we play inverted wingers and and inverted left back. It makes a huge difference because we have two players who naturally want to go inside every opportunity. 

Edited 9 May 2022 by Lambert09

[sacreblueits442]

9 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

we genuinely didn’t haha. 

 

He was a right back brought in as cover for Riccy P. He just has the ability to play on both sides.  (we had chillwell and fuchs at the time) 

 

There’s a reason brendan has kept him on the right this season.  That’s what was always baffling about castagne.. because we have 3 quality right backs and just play someone out of position. 

 

He was excellent last year on the left and i’m not against it when needed but we need a left footed full back playing wing back. Someone who will naturally whip a ball in from there. That would help eradicate a lot of the moments we get down that side and pass backwards instead of whipping the ball in. Just think how often fuchs was able to swing an early ball in from that side? we don’t have that at all because we play inverted wingers and and inverted left back. It makes a huge difference because we have two players who naturally want to go inside every opportunity. 

.....we need to put him back on the left, he is much better there!!!

I understand why you want a left footer on the left as when Luke first came into the team, he was putting in whipped crosses into the box and played quickly. There are plusses and minus in this scenario.

[Lambert09]

35 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

.....we need to put him back on the left, he is much better there!!!

I understand why you want a left footer on the left as when Luke first came into the team, he was putting in whipped crosses into the box and played quickly. There are plusses and minus in this scenario.

He is a bit of an  odd one as he's played more professional games out of position then in it. Im not sure if that makes him a left back or its where you identify. But If you asked him im fairly sure he'd say he is a right back. 

 

Much like us, Luton had a solid right back but no left back, so JJ accommodated. Not because he wasnt better than the right back but just to improve the team as a whole.  I do think we can expect to see Castagne leave and for a left back to come in. But I also wouldnt be surprised to see JJ start at left back at the start of next season.  

 

Its certainly not a problem if the current 4 options are all we have next season, but I think we could probably get some money in the bank whilst improving our team (even if the individual coming in isnt necessarily as good as Castagne, just a better fit for the role) 

[Shane]

4 hours ago, l444ry said:

4-4-2 is a outdated system these days. 

Villarreal seem to be doing ok playing 4-4-2/4-4-1-1. Atletico set up in a 4-4-2 yesterday and beat Real Madrid. Lille won their league recently playing a 4-4-2.
 

I think it can still be a decent system in the modern era.

 

4 hours ago, l444ry said:

Anyway, whatever setup Brendan decides to play things wouldn't change. It would still end up being the same old tippy tappy, too clever by half overpassing rubbish.

Agreed! Thats why we need to gerrim out.

 

[Reginaldo]

4 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

He is a bit of an  odd one as he's played more professional games out of position then in it. Im not sure if that makes him a left back or its where you identify. But If you asked him im fairly sure he'd say he is a right back. 

 

Much like us, Luton had a solid right back but no left back, so JJ accommodated. Not because he wasnt better than the right back but just to improve the team as a whole.  I do think we can expect to see Castagne leave and for a left back to come in. But I also wouldnt be surprised to see JJ start at left back at the start of next season.  

 

Its certainly not a problem if the current 4 options are all we have next season, but I think we could probably get some money in the bank whilst improving our team (even if the individual coming in isnt necessarily as good as Castagne, just a better fit for the role) 

I wouldn’t be surprised if Castagne leaves. I recall one of the reasons he wanted to leave Atalanta was he was being heavily rotated with Hateboer and it’s the same here. 

Edited 9 May 2022 by Reginaldo

[Lambert09]

1 hour ago, Shane said:

Villarreal seem to be doing ok playing 4-4-2/4-4-1-1. Atletico set up in a 4-4-2 yesterday and beat Real Madrid. Lille won their league recently playing a 4-4-2.
 

I think it can still be a decent system in the modern era.

 

Agreed! Thats why we need to gerrim out.

 

Theres simply one problem we have with the formation... Maddison.  

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, Lambert09 said:

Theres simply one problem we have with the formation... Maddison.  

....he could play in a pivot with KDH....!!!

[Scotch]

2 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

Theres simply one problem we have with the formation... Maddison.  

If it was a 4411, maddison fits, he could rotate with Nacho. 

 

It's Barnes and Ndidi that don't fit into that system. Ndidi isn't the guy to play in a two man CM and Barnes doesn't track back enough. 

[Lambert09]

27 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....he could play in a pivot with KDH....!!!

can’t see it being strong enough without a smile. 

 

10 minutes ago, Scotch said:

If it was a 4411, maddison fits, he could rotate with Nacho. 

 

It's Barnes and Ndidi that don't fit into that system. Ndidi isn't the guy to play in a two man CM and Barnes doesn't track back enough. 

I just don’t think it suits him. I feel like you need a nugent/ vardy pairing to really make it work. 

 

Maddison’s lack of pace makes it hard to play him in isolated areas.  

 

and let’s be serious, if we have the same wingers it’s just going to end up a 4231 in that scenario.  Absolutely zero point doing 4411 

 

I think as the clock runs down on vardy, having another striker up there to do some of the running would really help prolong him. 

 

im dissapointed we didn’t try this again, it was great for that first half.  (with a very dodgy back line) 

 

 

Edited 9 May 2022 by Lambert09

[l444ry]

10 hours ago, Shane said:

Villarreal seem to be doing ok playing 4-4-2/4-4-1-1. Atletico set up in a 4-4-2 yesterday and beat Real Madrid. Lille won their league recently playing a 4-4-2.
 

I think it can still be a decent system in the modern era.

 

Agreed! Thats why we need to gerrim out.

 

You reinforce the point. 4-4-2 is rarely used these days unless in a defensive solid mode (ie Atletico and Lille as per your examples). Not a cats chance in hell that Rodgers would set up Leicester this way.