England Vs France - Saturday 10th Dec - 19:00

[NasPb]

14 hours ago, Wymsey said:

The only thing that Kane lacks is pace.

And above all a winners mindset and as Americans say "clutch gene". He doesn't show up when it most matters. He's not a leader nor by example nor by actual leadership qualities. If it were prime vardy he scores both penalties easily. Kane is a serial bottler. Shrinks when the lights shine brightest 

Edited 13 December 2022 by NasPb

[gerblod]

On 11/12/2022 at 09:20, Alf Bentley said:

OK, back to singing practice....."Jules Rimet still gleaming, thirty sixty years of hurt...." 

There's an inherent fantasy fanned, in different ways, by all the English media, that England are entitled or deserve to win the WC on the basis that the first formal rules/leagues began in this country. 

 

I suspect though, that the 'home' countries very speedily established their own systems and I also suspect that Western Europe wasn't far behind.

When those first 12 (?) teams established the first league Britain was the centre of a vast empire and its aristocracy inculcated with the idea that Englishness/Scottishness was a god-given attribute placing them, morally, militarily and entrepreneurially, as the foremost country on earth.

 

This conceit has lingered - in spite of the gradual loss of all that power. And it's worth noting that England won the WC at that point where the English game  started to become money oriented and was beginning to edge away from being a working class game. Players were no longer limited to a salary cap (and bungs). Greavsie, in those days, used to travel to play first division games on buses shared by the fans. 

 

Holland, in spite of several superlative sides, have never won the WC, as is the case with Portugal and Belgium. Brazil has turned into a team that has forgotten its roots on the beaches of Rio and Sao Paolo. Their not-winning streak is becoming another hurt bemoaned in O Globo and Folha. Argentina and Messi is another flickering candle of hope that France, if Croatia don't do it, will, barring a goalless game and penalties, blow out if and when they meet.

 

We keep falling for this bizarre idea that assembling a side of very competent players from 'big' clubs and training, feeding and caring for them competently, is somehow going to produce a side with the verve/elan/creativity to win the World Cup. It always seems to get 'us' to where it might be a possibility - but then the reality becomes obvious - we come up against a France or Italy or Germany who are playing their beautiful game.

 

Southgate and Kane, in particular, are now coming in for the sad and sorry abuse for not realising the unrealisable.

Had Southgate brought Maddison on against France, he would have been making at least a gesture towards the kind of player who turns games around. Maybe not quite an English Griezmann, but a nod in that direction.

 

One team, every four years, wins the damn thing, out of x countries competing. It's a lottery and, unless somebody or some bodies work to change the approach to these competitions England will continue to suffer 'hurt'. Although I suspect proportionately few of our 60m population will feel the hurt for more than a few hours or days.

 

 

 

 

[gerblod]

1 hour ago, Fox92 said:

Footage of the '74 World Cup final always get me. Cruyff picks up the ball as the deepest player, run at West Germany and eventually wins a penalty. Never seen anything like it.

I watched that with my dad, who was German. I couldn't help but support Holland because they were such an incredible team - Cruyff being the creative heart.
I reckon he was THE 'total footballer' - could have played any position more than effectively.

Strikers will always get the bulk of the plaudits but I admire the great midfielders above all.

[Col city fan]

14 minutes ago, gerblod said:

I watched that with my dad, who was German. I couldn't help but support Holland because they were such an incredible team - Cruyff being the creative heart.
I reckon he was THE 'total footballer' - could have played any position more than effectively.

Strikers will always get the bulk of the plaudits but I admire the great midfielders above all.

Yes so do I mate. I guess that much was obvious. It’s why I love watching Tielemans (when on form). He can split defences apart with a quick look up and slide-rule pass. 
Gazza was my favourite English player to watch. I know he fooked about and got those horrible injuries but when he was ‘on it’, no-one could get anywhere near him.

He also ‘cared’ so much about wanting to do well, something I always respect. I’m convinced his omission from Hoddle’s World Cup squad was what sent him over the edge. He was absolutely heartbroken when he wasn’t included and never got over it I suspect.

Cruyff was just a magician, Maradona was the best I’ve ever seen and Messi is just ridiculous!

[TJQuik]

On 11/12/2022 at 20:52, Lcfc82 said:

You clearly don't understand what racism is

[Scotch]

 

[Lcfc82]

2 hours ago, TJQuik said:

You clearly don't understand what racism is

Why that 

[TJQuik]

18 minutes ago, Lcfc82 said:

Why that 

Racism is a system of exploitation. They're responding to the racism of white supremacy. In this case not only are they doing that but they're specifically responding to the racist abuse suffered by black players.

[Lcfc82]

11 minutes ago, TJQuik said:

Racism is a system of exploitation. They're responding to the racism of white supremacy. In this case not only are they doing that but they're specifically responding to the racist abuse suffered by black players.

Racism doesn’t apply when it’s against white people then ? 
They are responding to the racist abuse of black players by being racist themselves. That’s not the way to go about it in my opinion.

[TJQuik]

53 minutes ago, Lcfc82 said:

Racism doesn’t apply when it’s against white people then ? 
They are responding to the racist abuse of black players by being racist themselves. That’s not the way to go about it in my opinion.

Nope.

[Leicesterpool]

Some could say racism can including booing the other teams anthem. Sadly the British nation fans are guilty of that.

[Unabomber]

5 minutes ago, Leicesterpool said:

Some could say racism can including booing the other teams anthem. Sadly the British nation fans are guilty of that.

That’s not racism 

[Leicesterpool]

14 hours ago, Unabomber said:

That’s not racism 

To you and to some of us it might not but to the other nation that's getting booed, its considered disrespectful.

 

Suppose how would you feel if "God save the king" was booed over... not that I care as that's not our really anthem. 

[Unabomber]

3 minutes ago, Leicesterpool said:

To you and to some of us it might not but to the other nation that's getting booed, its considered disrespectful.

 

Suppose how would you feel if "God save the king" was booed over... not that I care as that's not our really anthem. 

Think it is xenophobia not racism though. 

[Mark_w]

On 14/12/2022 at 17:09, TJQuik said:

Racism is a system of exploitation. They're responding to the racism of white supremacy. In this case not only are they doing that but they're specifically responding to the racist abuse suffered by black players.

Harry Kane is many things, it pains me to defend him, but he’s not a white supremacist. His ethnicity is irrelevant, bringing anybody’s ethnicity, whatever it is, into criticism of them is racism and only serves to increase division and increase the number of idiots who think it’s acceptable.

 

There’s so much to criticise Harry Kane for, so much, why would you not just try to exhaust the things worth criticising.

[TJQuik]

4 hours ago, Mark_w said:

Harry Kane is many things, it pains me to defend him, but he’s not a white supremacist. His ethnicity is irrelevant, bringing anybody’s ethnicity, whatever it is, into criticism of them is racism and only serves to increase division and increase the number of idiots who think it’s acceptable.

 

There’s so much to criticise Harry Kane for, so much, why would you not just try to exhaust the things worth criticising.

I have no idea where you got this from, I suggest you read my post again.

[Mark_w]

8 hours ago, TJQuik said:

I have no idea where you got this from, I suggest you read my post again.

They’re not responding to the racism of white supremacy. They’re responding to a footballer missing a penalty.

[Mark_w]

Although just realised that I don’t know the wording of all the messages to Saka and co. If it’s the same with just names and ethnicity changed then it would obviously just be satire and I’d take that back.

[TJQuik]

On 17/12/2022 at 07:58, Mark_w said:

They’re not responding to the racism of white supremacy. They’re responding to a footballer missing a penalty.

 

You still don't seem to grasp what I was saying.

 

[Mark_w]

9 minutes ago, TJQuik said:

 

You still don't seem to grasp what I was saying.

 

Feel free to explain for me 

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, TJQuik said:

 

You still don't seem to grasp what I was saying.

 

I promise you I do, at the very least.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

We don't have an mbappe, our mbappe is kane and he is bang average when compared to him. He needs to not be a 'must start at all costs' type player for us, he just simply isn't good enough. The fact Vardy never got a sniff when he was legitimately one of the best, in form strikers in the world says all you need to know. We're buggered.