England Vs France - Saturday 10th Dec - 19:00

[NasPb]

Prime vardy makes both btw

[Guest Col city fan]

[gerblod]

9 hours ago, adam said:

Should of listened to Eni Aluko. Kane shouldn't have taken the second pen  😆 

I found myself thinking, just before he took it. "how's he going to mix this one up?" Lloris knows him, they're chasing the game and there's huge pressure on him, he's tired and England expects and all that. No wonder he fired over - just a tad of a lean back is all it takes.

He avoids a low penalty, choosing to shoot a wide rising ball to his left really fast. Worked first time, but high risk considering the adverse factors at that point.

Should have been someone else, to keep Lloris guessing.

[Lionator]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

 

Yep.

 

While I'm one of his biggest fans ever, I would count Andy Murray among those too. Three wins from eleven Grand Slam finals, while pretty fair in an era of three of the finest players ever to play the game, isn't a great return when it really, really matters.

Damn you’re hard to please (no offence). Winning 3 out of 11 finals or 3 GS’s at all in an era of Federer, Nadal and Djokovic is incredible. I think Murray is a winner, whereas Kane is a loser who has never quite had it when it really matters. 

[Vacamion]

 

I've just seen that The S*n, err "took over" Paris pre-game with large images of England players and slogans intended to wind the French up - "It's Gaul Over", etc.

 

Ah, good old hubris - it almost never ends badly.

 

And there was this:

 

 

It doesn't mean "It's coming home".

 

It means "He is coming back [to our] home."

 

Spectacular self-own.

 

 

 

[gerblod]

5 hours ago, Deeg67 said:

I agree with this, Griezman has been a revelation this tournament.  Mbappe is the best player in the world but he wasn't their best player tonight.

Griezmann been a revelation for seven/eight seasons - it's all the crap around his transfer and return that's affected him.

Barca and PSG are the schizo clubs that use and spit out players.

When you've got him, Mbappe and Rabiot operating in tandem, you're constantly asking questions of the opposition. Brilliant player.

[gerblod]

7 minutes ago, Vacamion said:

 

I've just seen that The S*n, err "took over" Paris pre-game with large images of England players and slogans intended to wind the French up - "It's Gaul Over", etc.

 

Ah, good old hubris - it almost never ends badly.

 

And there was this:

 

 

It doesn't mean "It's coming home".

 

It means "He is coming back [to our] home."

 

Spectacular self-own.

 

 

 

By my school french it should be 'on' not "il". I don't recognise "rentre" at all - retourner would have been less lame.

It's the newspaper where failed journalists gather to hype up schleb culture and then vent their bile on any 'fail' spectaculaire enough to rouse them from their torpor.

 

[RowlattsFox]

England need someone like Sammy Braybrooke to come through and dictate games from midfield, it's where we always fall short. Rice played quite well but he's not good enough on the ball, same for Henderson, Bellingham is quality but we need quality around him. Same with the defence, do a decent job but get found out. Who is coming through that will improve that? 

 

Going forward we look good and there is lots of talent. 

[Raj]

Hope some of you wake up abit better as alot of you were very touchy yesterday🤭🤭🤭Have a nice Sunday and perhaps go for a walk!!

Edited 11 December 2022 by Raj

[CosbehFox]

28 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

England need someone like Sammy Braybrooke to come through and dictate games from midfield, it's where we always fall short. Rice played quite well but he's not good enough on the ball, same for Henderson, Bellingham is quality but we need quality around him. Same with the defence, do a decent job but get found out. Who is coming through that will improve that? 

 

Going forward we look good and there is lots of talent. 

Tbf we need a CB capable of being the press with a bit of speed. That would enable us to play attacking full backs and stop with the passive possession where at least three teams

at this WC could press us effectively. 

[Lionator]

7 hours ago, foxes_rule1978 said:

Oh cares, seems france are amazing and deserved the win, well not from what I saw… England on top for most of the match. Mentality is the problem, and we are slipping into that same problem that we have done for many years. Excellent team, creating but not having the guts to win it when it matters 

Brazil in 1982 were arguably the greatest side the world has ever seen international wise, Netherlands 1974 were up there too. However both came up against more clinical teams and didn’t win the World Cup. England played well but ultimately failed in those fine margins, whereas France were insanely clinical. 

[Raj]

 

Edited 11 December 2022 by Raj

[RumbleFox]

It’s like the bloody music scene. Full of people that have all come through the same system, talented enough but with no desire. Anyone slightly out of the usual conveyor belt (Vardy, players not from an elite academy, players that haven’t come through the “England system”, etc) just don’t get a fair chance. The result is the same, the music is ok, they can play the instruments and sing in tune but there’s nothing about it. Bland to the point of tedium. X 

Edited 11 December 2022 by RumbleFox

[CosbehFox]

1 minute ago, RumbleFox said:

It’s like the bloody music scene. Full of people that have all come through the same system, talented enough but with no desire. Anyone slightly out of the usual conveyor belt (Vardy, players not from an elite academy, etc) just don’t get a fair chance. The result is the same, the music is ok, they can play the instruments and sing in tune but there’s nothing about it. Bland to the point of tedium. X 

Of the starting eleven, Walker, Stones, Maguire, Shaw, Bellingham, Henderson have all come from non elite academies. 
 

A lack of desire didn’t really apply last night 

[RumbleFox]

4 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Of the starting eleven, Walker, Stones, Maguire, Shaw, Bellingham, Henderson have all come from non elite academies. 
 

A lack of desire didn’t really apply last night 

Well fvck you, with your facts and reason. I really enjoyed writing that now I’ve just been poo pooed and I have zero come back because you’re completely right. 

[Big Dave]

[Balj]

I think there is the Real Madrid factor we are missing - how many times in the Champions League have they just found a way to win. This is the result of a historic collective memory of being winners. England don’t have it, France did. In the big moments they won, England didn’t. Being the better team counts for nothing at the sharp end - when Spain won the WC it was an incredible achievement given their lack of winning history and it would take an achievement of that proportion for England to do it. England have no inbuilt reserve of being winners to tap into at the biggest moments.

 

As an aside, for all the talk of the wonderful midfield players we have, and we do, GK, defence and attack after Kane are worrying. Bellingham, Foden et al are magnificent but not enough given the lack of quality in other areas.
 

 

[Bert]

1 hour ago, RowlattsFox said:

England need someone like Sammy Braybrooke to come through and dictate games from midfield, it's where we always fall short. Rice played quite well but he's not good enough on the ball, same for Henderson, Bellingham is quality but we need quality around him. Same with the defence, do a decent job but get found out. Who is coming through that will improve that? 

 

Going forward we look good and there is lots of talent. 

I’m sorry what  

 

Is this the same Braybrooke that’s had 20 first team minutes in his career? 
 

Rice isn’t good enough on the ball? Wow. 

[foxes_rule1978]

France are absolutely brilliant but England are fed up with getting close to that, We are growing and getting stronger. Use the best players like Maddison would help though. 

[RumbleFox]

I think we just need better players sadly. I’d argue Pickford, Maguire, Stones, Shaw, Walker, Henderson and Rice just aren’t good enough. Bellingham is amazing but obviously too young to completely rely on. Foden and Saka phenomenal players but would you say world class? I know he gets stick and I know he fecked up last night but Kane probably the only world class player in the starting 11 last night. I think they did well, no complaints really with the performance, no scapegoats or witch-hunts. I just think we’re not quite good enough. Same goes for Southgate. He’s fine. He seems a nice guy. But I don’t think he’s quite good enough. 

[RowlattsFox]

9 minutes ago, Bert said:

I’m sorry what  

 

Is this the same Braybrooke that’s had 20 first team minutes in his career? 
 

Rice isn’t good enough on the ball? Wow. 

Think you need to read it again. Quite clearly not suggesting Braybrooke is the man but I do feel we need someone like him (as in his style of play) to come through the ranks. 

 

I like Rice, he has lots of strengths but I don't think controlling the midfield with his passing his one of them. 

[foxes_rule1978]

What a rubbish world cup anyway, an asterisk against the one that wins it.., I’m out 

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, Vacamion said:

 

I've just seen that The S*n, err "took over" Paris pre-game with large images of England players and slogans intended to wind the French up - "It's Gaul Over", etc.

 

Ah, good old hubris - it almost never ends badly.

 

And there was this:

 

 

It doesn't mean "It's coming home".

 

It means "He is coming back [to our] home."

 

Spectacular self-own.

 

 

 

 

58 minutes ago, gerblod said:

By my school french it should be 'on' not "il". I don't recognise "rentre" at all - retourner would have been less lame.

It's the newspaper where failed journalists gather to hype up schleb culture and then vent their bile on any 'fail' spectaculaire enough to rouse them from their torpor.

 

 

Professional French-English (but not English-French) translator here.....

 

Context is important in translating. The context here is the image of Bellingham. So, Vacamion's translation is correct....or, translating more loosely: "He [Bellingham] is coming home".

Might have made some sense as a wind-up if they'd translated it into German and projected onto buildings in Dortmund instead of Paris, I suppose.....  

 

I'm afraid, in the context of the Bellingham image, "on rentre chez nous" would translate as "we [England] are going home". Accurate, as it turned out, but an unlikely angle from The Sun pre-match.... 

(Would normally be "nous rentrons chez nous" in formal, written French, I think, but you'd certainly hear "on rentre chez nous" in oral French)

 

Of course, there's the issue of WHAT is coming home? In the original Skinner/Baddiel/Lightning Seeds song, it wasn't the World Cup, it was football - coming home for Euro 96, with lyrics relating to welcome, tongue-in-check ownership of the game and hope against the odds....but not to premature triumph or the World Cup. The latter meaning has since been adopted tongue-in-cheek by fans - and maybe less tongue-in-cheek by jingoistic cultural pollutants like The Sun. 

 

"Il rentre chez nous" could've been used in the original sense - "football's coming home".....in the context of images of football and of England.....but only if The Sun thought the World Cup was going to be moved from Qatar to England at the last minute. Of course, they meant to say "the World Cup is coming home [to England]".........but the World Cup (La Coupe du Monde) is feminine......

 

So, "Elle rentre chez nous" might have made some sense......but not with the image of Bellingham, which would only have made sense if they wanted to suggest he was transsexual.

 

"Elle rentre chez nous" over a photoshopped image of the World Cup outside Buckingham Palace or Big Ben or being held by some British bobbies or beefeaters might've made some sense....

 

OK, back to singing practice....."Jules Rimet still gleaming, thirty sixty years of hurt...." 

[RumbleFox]

And on the desire thing, I do feel there was a slight problem in this area. I may be misremembering this or it may be because I’m older now but that game against Germany t Euro 96, with Gazza sliding in and missing the ball by a mm. I dunno, we seemed more desperate then, showed more passion? I felt like a lived every half chance. I didn’t feel that last night. But maybe I’m just old and less invested. 

[Dames]

3 minutes ago, RumbleFox said:

And on the desire thing, I do feel there was a slight problem in this area. I may be misremembering this or it may be because I’m older now but that game against Germany t Euro 96, with Gazza sliding in and missing the ball by a mm. I dunno, we seemed more desperate then, showed more passion? I felt like a lived every half chance. I didn’t feel that last night. But maybe I’m just old and less invested. 

I see what you’re saying. The commitment is there but its not full blooded. Its because of the type of squad Gareth has assembled, they are all lovely lads but when things get tough are any of them going to get tough with it? Fair play to yesterday they stuck to their guns and equalised but look at how the French players were taking nibbles every chance they got, we need our players to match that. If that bite is missing then you need a manager who’s going to be able to change the game tactically and with Southgate we don’t have that either.