Rodgers out? Being grateful versus being ambitious

[pmcla26]

59 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

If you're going to give Rodgers credit for Maddison's improvement then it's only right he takes criticism for the downward trajectory of Soyuncu, Thomas, Ndidi, Tielemans and Barnes.

 

By the end of his first year here he had done a brilliant job and we were arguably the best team in the country outside of Man City and Liverpool. More than half our team were players in the 21-22 age bracket and without exaggeration were some of the best half a dozen at one club crop of young players in world football. He has totally mismanaged the excellent conditions he had this time three years ago and has only sold Chilwell, Maguire and Fofana of note whilst spending £250m in his time here.

 

His attitude is appalling as well, akin to a spoilt child blaming everything but himself. It's very likely that he has already mentally checked out of the job months ago and just waiting to part ways, has to go in the summer relegated or not.

Personally, I wouldn't agree that Barnes' and Tielemans' trajectory has gone downwards. They're both better players now than they were previously, IMO. 

 

With regards to Thomas, yeah possibly, but he has been given plenty of exposure to first-team football - maybe Rodgers hasn't utilised him correctly, though. I'm not sure what the answer is on him. 

Soyuncu, I agree with completely - I don't know why Rodgers has consistently picked Amartey over him. The only minor benefit of doubt I can give Rodgers is that it seems that Soyuncu hasn't wanted to be here for a while now, and think Rodgers has possibly decided to sideline him because of that? However, if it is purely a footballing decision, then I have no idea what Rodgers has done with him there and he deserves to be criticised for that. Either way, he definitely should have handled that situation better and got more use out of Soyuncu. 

 

Ndidi's struggles have mainly been linked to injuries. He looked back to his best on Saturday so hopefully there is more of that to come.

 

I don't understand the attitude thing that a lot of people say about Rodgers - I've seen all of the quotes and his pressers etc. and think he comes across well nearly all of the time. He handles the media much better than Pearson or Puel ever did. 

 

I don't necessarily think he has to go in the summer, providing we are able to get the components to a team suited to playing his style of football. At the moment, I don't think we have that in several positions. If we aren't able to sign those players, though, then yeah we need a manager who the squad is more suited to. 

[LCFCJohn]

19 minutes ago, Pete52 said:

Personally, I wouldn't agree that Barnes' and Tielemans' trajectory has gone downwards. They're both better players now than they were previously, IMO. 

 

With regards to Thomas, yeah possibly, but he has been given plenty of exposure to first-team football - maybe Rodgers hasn't utilised him correctly, though. I'm not sure what the answer is on him. 

Soyuncu, I agree with completely - I don't know why Rodgers has consistently picked Amartey over him. The only minor benefit of doubt I can give Rodgers is that it seems that Soyuncu hasn't wanted to be here for a while now, and think Rodgers has possibly decided to sideline him because of that? However, if it is purely a footballing decision, then I have no idea what Rodgers has done with him there and he deserves to be criticised for that. Either way, he definitely should have handled that situation better and got more use out of Soyuncu. 

 

Ndidi's struggles have mainly been linked to injuries. He looked back to his best on Saturday so hopefully there is more of that to come.

 

I don't understand the attitude thing that a lot of people say about Rodgers - I've seen all of the quotes and his pressers etc. and think he comes across well nearly all of the time. He handles the media much better than Pearson or Puel ever did. 

 

I don't necessarily think he has to go in the summer, providing we are able to get the components to a team suited to playing his style of football. At the moment, I don't think we have that in several positions. If we aren't able to sign those players, though, then yeah we need a manager who the squad is more suited to. 

Player progress is not always linear. 
 

Tielemans and Barnes, perhaps did progress initially but definitely not in the last couple of years and that’s with them entering their prime. At best they have stagnated, at worst gone backwards after initial progression. Personally I think both will go on to be much better players when they leave and are under a new manager. 
 

Also if you think Rodgers has sidelined Soyuncu as he hasn’t signed a new contract and wants out, how is they different to Youri?

 

With attitude and interview comments, would you agree for example that we were a side happy to avoid relegation when he joined? Do you think he has had absolutely no backing from the board/owners as he constantly infers?

[pmcla26]

18 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said:

Player progress is not always linear. 
 

Tielemans and Barnes, perhaps did progress initially but definitely not in the last couple of years and that’s with them entering their prime. At best they have stagnated, at worst gone backwards after initial progression. Personally I think both will go on to be much better players when they leave and are under a new manager. 
 

Also if you think Rodgers has sidelined Soyuncu as he hasn’t signed a new contract and wants out, how is they different to Youri?

 

With attitude and interview comments, would you agree for example that we were a side happy to avoid relegation when he joined? Do you think he has had absolutely no backing from the board/owners as he constantly infers?

There's a difference between player progression and form. I'd say both are better players overall, even if at times they have dips in form, just like every other footballer. 

 

I don't know with Soyuncu - I don't know all the ins and outs as to why it is different from Tielemans. Hence why I said it would be a minor benefit of the doubt and that I agreed that Rodgers should have got more out of Soyuncu. You should re-read that part of my post mate. 

 

No, I wouldn't agree that we were a side that were happy to just avoid relegation when he came in. That was just one thing that he said, again, why I said "nearly all of the time" he comes across well, and not "there is nothing that he ever says that is wrong". I also don't think he constantly infers that he hasn't been backed. It is fair to say that last summer wasn't good for Rodgers in terms of backing him. Both himself and the club messed up in the summer 2021 window and financially in other areas and we had to pay the price last summer as a result. I'm not surprised that he was frustrated when teams of a similar stature, like West Ham and Villa, were splashing the cash. He did say he "wouldn't go to war" with the club over it, which he didn't, and got on with it - it's fine for him to acknowledge that the window was a frustrating one, is it not? We all felt the same way as fans.

 

He speaks highly of Top and the board, and in January praised the club for getting Souttar, Tete and Kristiansen in. I don't think over-analysing his comments does anyone any good. 

Edited 23 March 2023 by Pete52

[don_danbury]

looking on reddit, it's shocking how many people are brendan IN. what is wrong with these people?

[Silva Fox]

5 minutes ago, don_danbury said:

looking on reddit, it's shocking how many people are brendan IN. what is wrong with these people?

What's reddit? Sounds like a place to avoid!

[lfu]

21 hours ago, Pete52 said:

Iheanacho is definitely a much better player than he was. He was terrible under Puel and is now probably our best striker (partly down to Vardy’s drop off, of course).

Puel was striker cryptonite in fairness.

[LCFCJohn]

2 hours ago, Pete52 said:

There's a difference between player progression and form. I'd say both are better players overall, even if at times they have dips in form, just like every other footballer. 

 

I don't know with Soyuncu - I don't know all the ins and outs as to why it is different from Tielemans. Hence why I said it would be a minor benefit of the doubt and that I agreed that Rodgers should have got more out of Soyuncu. You should re-read that part of my post mate. 

 

No, I wouldn't agree that we were a side that were happy to just avoid relegation when he came in. That was just one thing that he said, again, why I said "nearly all of the time" he comes across well, and not "there is nothing that he ever says that is wrong". I also don't think he constantly infers that he hasn't been backed. It is fair to say that last summer wasn't good for Rodgers in terms of backing him. Both himself and the club messed up in the summer 2021 window and financially in other areas and we had to pay the price last summer as a result. I'm not surprised that he was frustrated when teams of a similar stature, like West Ham and Villa, were splashing the cash. He did say he "wouldn't go to war" with the club over it, which he didn't, and got on with it - it's fine for him to acknowledge that the window was a frustrating one, is it not? We all felt the same way as fans.

 

He speaks highly of Top and the board, and in January praised the club for getting Souttar, Tete and Kristiansen in. I don't think over-analysing his comments does anyone any good. 

I don’t want to seem like I I’m having a dig by the way. Even if our views differ, I respect anyone who has genuine points to make about how they see things rather than just the ‘who would we get instead’ or ‘he won the cup’ people.

Fair point regarding form. I suppose I’d say where do you draw the line between a dip in form and genuine stagnation/regression. It will be one for opinions with probably no right or wrong answer. Similar to Maddison. I’d say he would have reached his heights with our without Rodgers as he’s a gifted player. I realise that is not fact though and just my opinion whereas someone who appreciate Rodgers, will probably credit him. 
 

Fair point re Soyuncu. Of course we don’t know the ins and outs but sounds like we agree we’d like to see him given a chance. 
 

The section about his comments. Fair enough that you have agreed about certain bits. Regarding the backing issues, I think it is a case of short memory from the previous summer but yes fans were disappointed too but I personally just think he hasn’t ‘got on with it’ and been quite negative whether openly or with undertone.

[pmcla26]

10 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said:

I don’t want to seem like I I’m having a dig by the way. Even if our views differ, I respect anyone who has genuine points to make about how they see things rather than just the ‘who would we get instead’ or ‘he won the cup’ people.

Fair point regarding form. I suppose I’d say where do you draw the line between a dip in form and genuine stagnation/regression. It will be one for opinions with probably no right or wrong answer. Similar to Maddison. I’d say he would have reached his heights with our without Rodgers as he’s a gifted player. I realise that is not fact though and just my opinion whereas someone who appreciate Rodgers, will probably credit him. 
 

Fair point re Soyuncu. Of course we don’t know the ins and outs but sounds like we agree we’d like to see him given a chance. 
 

The section about his comments. Fair enough that you have agreed about certain bits. Regarding the backing issues, I think it is a case of short memory from the previous summer but yes fans were disappointed too but I personally just think he hasn’t ‘got on with it’ and been quite negative whether openly or with undertone.

Me neither! Hope I didn’t come across bad in my response either, it’s good to find some middle ground with someone with differing views to my own on Rodgers, instead of the polar opposites of, like you say: ‘he won us the cup’ and ‘Rodgers out! He’s destroying our club’. Shows that both sides can discuss and agree on certain things, whilst still disagreeing on others. 
 

Good debate  

[420Hashish]

On 21/03/2023 at 12:14, TamworthFoxes said:

I see the fan base split in to 2 groups:

 

1) Those that are compos mentis, are not partially sighted/fully blind and can see we are going to be relegated 

2) Anybody who thinks Brendan should stay.

 

 

Duality of Foxestalk

[Chrysalis]

On 21/03/2023 at 15:56, Foxxed said:

I'm not suggesting these ideas can't co-exist: but they seem to be framed this way

Some say we should be grateful that we're playing a high level and we should support Rodgers.

Others say we the club should aim higher than our current level.

Is this how you see the fanbase split?

I am neither right now, I think we need to go back to basics, get the team doing that stuff right before we try to play fancy football and dream of Europe again.

 

Its also showing that our previous ambition is not manageable without owners with either better financial management or deeper pockets.

We have only had one proper relegation battle under KP, we stuck with Pearson and stayed up, that may be having a factor on this season.

[LCFCJohn]

7 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

I am neither right now, I think we need to go back to basics, get the team doing that stuff right before we try to play fancy football and dream of Europe again.

 

Its also showing that our previous ambition is not manageable without owners with either better financial management or deeper pockets.

We have only had one proper relegation battle under KP, we stuck with Pearson and stayed up, that may be having a factor on this season.

The only bit here I’d question is the bolded bit. When in the season are you in a relegation battle?

 

In 2017 we lost dropped into the bottom 3 in February on a losing run and Ranieri was gone. Possibly the quick upturn and pull away from danger made that seem like it wasn’t a relegation battle but only because Vichai acted quickly.

 

So we have evidence of one either way I would say. One stick, one twist. Both had the desired outcome. 

[The Horse's Mouth]

This was the case last season I think, I think the people on the in side still maybe subscribe to that but they’re completely oblivious to how ****ed we actually are 

[Motty]

is it black and white

 

we finished 5th twice one opinion we failed to finish 4th twice one opinion

 

our first Fa cup. big plus  also the Charity sheild

they are history

 

Not backed no refresh key player injuries

under performing poor training methods causing injuries

 

i think most people seem unhappy at the style of play to much back and sideways passing

 

not sure any replacement would be better

anyone would be better

 

at the last home game there was not the same disdain at the rogers out chants and a large number of early leavers

its coming to its end unless there is a massive improvement immediately i suggest