Rodgers out? Being grateful versus being ambitious

[Pliskin]

There’s no other alternative. Brendan HAS to be sacked. I genuinely can’t understand anyone who doesn’t think this, and if they do, they’ve clearly been enchanted by his bollocks. 
 

Any shred of respect I had for the man dissipated a long time ago. Him staying here has just destroyed the bloke and he knows it, which is why he was on the self defence for so long, now, I just think he’s downright depressed and is waiting for the nightmare to end. 
 

The problem is, it will end with relegation, and we will be in some serious shite.

[winteriscoming]

I know a lot wanted him gone before but he should of gone after the Forest debacle last season. New manager in with 10+ games, pre season and started this season. We wouldn’t be in this position with someone new in charge and having that time period to bed in. Imo we’d be comfortably mid table. 

[Daggers]

1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

There’s no other alternative. Brendan HAS to be sacked. I genuinely can’t understand anyone who doesn’t think this, and if they do, they’ve clearly been enchanted by his bollocks. 
 

Bending down that low is certain to produce long term back issues. 

[smudgerfox]

9 hours ago, winteriscoming said:

I know a lot wanted him gone before but he should have gone after the Forest debacle last season. New manager in with 10+ games, pre season and started this season. We wouldn’t be in this position with someone new in charge and having that time period to bed in. Imo we’d be comfortably mid table. 

Agree with this. That was a stupendously pathetic Cup exit when we were defending the trophy. His response? To turn on the squad and to say roughly a third were either not good enough or committed enough, or both. A fair few of them players he’d signed!  They needed to go and be replaced. But he never had the means to make them go - you can’t force a contracted player to leave - and selling them is all the more difficult when you’ve told the world how useless they are. Without sales there’s no room for the new blood he so craved - so the refresh became a non starter.

 

So he went into this season with a demotivated squad - Soyuncu sidelined , Praet  and Vestergaard missing out on a World Cup, captain and keeper plus the key defender sold on in the last knockings of the transfer window.

 

After being trashed so comprehensively by Forest and his reaction to it there really was no point in carrying on with him. We will pay a heavy price for doing so. 

[pmcla26]

I think it's a tough one, tbh. A lot tougher than a lot of the staunch "Rodgers Out-ers" make it sound. 

 

You have a manager who is clearly very good in most aspects, but has certain flaws that he doesn't seem to make much progress on improving.

 

The main one being his inability to organise a team defensively, unless he has quality individuals like in most of 19/20 and 20/21. His substitutions leave something to be desired at times, too, and he also sometimes persists with certain players for too long (Daniel Amartey, Danny Ward and Luke Thomas being the main 3 - although Thomas was more out of necessity. Some could argue Ayoze Perez, too, but he's actually been our best RW in Rodgers time here so far, unless you count Maddison's run their at the start of the season or Lookman, but I'd argue their positions are behind the striker and on the left). His transfers (if they were his transfers) haven't been good enough either, but I also blame the club for allowing him that control and also for handing out the contracts that have made them so hard to to move on - we would have said bye to Vestergaard and Bertrand by now if they weren't on so much money. The injuries are also concerning, but without knowing Rodgers training methods and what goes on behind the scenes, it's hard to appropriate the blame to anyone in particular, although I imagine it's a little more than coincidence. 

 

Off of the pitch, personally I don't think he's ever said much that wrong (the rebuild comments probably the main thing, was too early to say that + the expectations about "being happy to stay in the league" being wrong, apart from that I think he talks quite well and is level-headed, doesn't often lose his composure in the media), but he has sometimes been a bit too honest in the public eye (please don't come for me, I know a lot of you don't agree and have read your reasons why) which hasn't sold himself to certain sections of the fan base who maybe feel they have been let down on us building upon our success of the first few years under Rodgers (which is fair enough, I'm disappointed we didn't capitalise on it too, however it was always going to be difficult), then there are a few who have an ever so slightly inflated idea of where we are at as a club in the context of teams surrounding us in the Premier League and some who just haven't warmed to him ever, for personal reasons that I just don't understand, to be quite honest. I don't think he seems a bad bloke.

 

In terms of what he does well, he's clearly a very good coach. A lot of our players have improved, particularly the young English lads (KDH, Maddison, Barnes, JJ - although injuries have hurt his progress, Thomas and Choudhury being the two outliers but there is still time for Thomas and Choudhury just isn't a top-half Premier League footballer I don't think). They also seem to get on really well with him and his man-management seems to be a plus point from what those who have spoke about him in the media have said, besides Vestergaard, but he's crap anyway. Not just that, but when he has the players to suit his system, he really can optimise the results that they achieve and the football that they play. The problem is, he doesn't have all the necessary components right now to play the best football we can. We inhibit and restrict ourselves due to a lack of trust in the defence. We aren't able to press in the same manner as previously or commit bodies forward in possession in the same way, as the defensive part of the team can't be trusted to mop up behind the same way that Schmeichel, Cags (19/20), Evans, Fofana and Ndidi could be previously. Ward/Iverson, Amartey, Faes, Souttar and Mendy/Soumare/post-injury Ndidi (although very good on Saturday) is a monumental drop off in quality that I find it hard to blame Rodgers for. That part of the team needs at least a goalkeeper and centre-back signing in the summer to hopefully allow some of the shackles to be loosened again on the more offensive players in the team. Equally, a manager of his quality should have found a better solution to this problem than what we are currently seeing, and for that I do lay the blame at Rodgers' door. 

 

I think from the club's perspective, they don't see a much better option out there as they'll be shelling out millions of pounds to sack Rodgers and replace him with a second-rate manager like Marsch, Lampard or Gerrard. There aren't many decent options available. I know people will say foreign names from abroad, but we know that they favour some PL managerial experience, even if you disagree with this approach I can't see them changing that right now. Furthermore, I don't think they'll hire someone without that experience in our current position, but if they were to do so, it would be in a summer window where they can give them time to settle and get their own players in.

 

Overall, I think sacking Rodgers right now wouldn't be good timing. Previously, there may have been better chances to do so, and also, the summer may be a better chance to part ways. I'm pretty comfortable with the idea that we'll stay up and don't really have many concerns on that front, even if the table doesn't look pretty. I think if we're really in the shit towards the end then Maddison and Barnes will turn it on and get us out of it, anyway. The most likely scenario, IMO, is that we stay up this season, Rodgers stays on, Glover and co. handle the transfer business (not Rodgers and Congerton) and we sign some decent players and have a better season next season around mid-table. I do understand the anxiety and concern that many have, and that some just don't like Rodgers (fair enough), but I honestly think we will be fine and this will just have to go down as a bad season due to numerous circumstances, when we look back at it in years to come. 

[Guest Mickyblueeyes]

Its not ambition motivating calls for Brendan Rodgers to be sacked. His team have been unable to consistently defend a corner for what is now 2 years. The basics under him are not right. Nor are they right above him. 

 

Its common sense that change is needed and fast. 

[Vazman]

8 minutes ago, Pete52 said:

I think it's a tough one, tbh. A lot tougher than a lot of the staunch "Rodgers Out-ers" make it sound. 

 

You have a manager who is clearly very good in most aspects, but has certain flaws that he doesn't seem to make much progress on improving.

 

The main one being his inability to organise a team defensively, unless he has quality individuals like in most of 19/20 and 20/21. His substitutions leave something to be desired at times, too, and he also sometimes persists with certain players for too long (Daniel Amartey, Danny Ward and Luke Thomas being the main 3 - although Thomas was more out of necessity. Some could argue Ayoze Perez, too, but he's actually been our best RW in Rodgers time here so far, unless you count Maddison's run their at the start of the season or Lookman, but I'd argue their positions are behind the striker and on the left). His transfers (if they were his transfers) haven't been good enough either, but I also blame the club for allowing him that control and also for handing out the contracts that have made them so hard to to move on - we would have said bye to Vestergaard and Bertrand by now if they weren't on so much money. The injuries are also concerning, but without knowing Rodgers training methods and what goes on behind the scenes, it's hard to appropriate the blame to anyone in particular, although I imagine it's a little more than coincidence. 

 

Off of the pitch, personally I don't think he's ever said much that wrong (the rebuild comments probably the main thing, was too early to say that + the expectations about "being happy to stay in the league" being wrong, apart from that I think he talks quite well and is level-headed, doesn't often lose his composure in the media), but he has sometimes been a bit too honest in the public eye (please don't come for me, I know a lot of you don't agree and have read your reasons why) which hasn't sold himself to certain sections of the fan base who maybe feel they have been let down on us building upon our success of the first few years under Rodgers (which is fair enough, I'm disappointed we didn't capitalise on it too, however it was always going to be difficult), then there are a few who have an ever so slightly inflated idea of where we are at as a club in the context of teams surrounding us in the Premier League and some who just haven't warmed to him ever, for personal reasons that I just don't understand, to be quite honest. I don't think he seems a bad bloke.

 

In terms of what he does well, he's clearly a very good coach. A lot of our players have improved, particularly the young English lads (KDH, Maddison, Barnes, JJ - although injuries have hurt his progress, Thomas and Choudhury being the two outliers but there is still time for Thomas and Choudhury just isn't a top-half Premier League footballer I don't think). They also seem to get on really well with him and his man-management seems to be a plus point from what those who have spoke about him in the media have said, besides Vestergaard, but he's crap anyway. Not just that, but when he has the players to suit his system, he really can optimise the results that they achieve and the football that they play. The problem is, he doesn't have all the necessary components right now to play the best football we can. We inhibit and restrict ourselves due to a lack of trust in the defence. We aren't able to press in the same manner as previously or commit bodies forward in possession in the same way, as the defensive part of the team can't be trusted to mop up behind the same way that Schmeichel, Cags (19/20), Evans, Fofana and Ndidi could be previously. Ward/Iverson, Amartey, Faes, Souttar and Mendy/Soumare/post-injury Ndidi (although very good on Saturday) is a monumental drop off in quality that I find it hard to blame Rodgers for. That part of the team needs at least a goalkeeper and centre-back signing in the summer to hopefully allow some of the shackles to be loosened again on the more offensive players in the team. Equally, a manager of his quality should have found a better solution to this problem than what we are currently seeing, and for that I do lay the blame at Rodgers' door. 

 

I think from the club's perspective, they don't see a much better option out there as they'll be shelling out millions of pounds to sack Rodgers and replace him with a second-rate manager like Marsch, Lampard or Gerrard. There aren't many decent options available. I know people will say foreign names from abroad, but we know that they favour some PL managerial experience, even if you disagree with this approach I can't see them changing that right now. Furthermore, I don't think they'll hire someone without that experience in our current position, but if they were to do so, it would be in a summer window where they can give them time to settle and get their own players in.

 

Overall, I think sacking Rodgers right now wouldn't be good timing. Previously, there may have been better chances to do so, and also, the summer may be a better chance to part ways. I'm pretty comfortable with the idea that we'll stay up and don't really have many concerns on that front, even if the table doesn't look pretty. I think if we're really in the shit towards the end then Maddison and Barnes will turn it on and get us out of it, anyway. The most likely scenario, IMO, is that we stay up this season, Rodgers stays on, Glover and co. handle the transfer business (not Rodgers and Congerton) and we sign some decent players and have a better season next season around mid-table. I do understand the anxiety and concern that many have, and that some just don't like Rodgers (fair enough), but I honestly think we will be fine and this will just have to go down as a bad season due to numerous circumstances, when we look back at it in years to come. 

I get your points, some are valid, but there is just too much in your post that you have highlighted about him, that would lead to a dismissal at any other club; "inability to organise a defence" this alone has cost us so many points, his persistence on playing certain "players" no doubt has cost us points, I am not demeaning your post, just that at what point does a persistent failing not call for a dismissal, or change, he should have gone after the Forest Cup match, it was a disgrace, one of many we have witnessed, and not just this season.

[Simoken]

12 hours ago, Pliskin said:

There’s no other alternative. Brendan HAS to be sacked. I genuinely can’t understand anyone who doesn’t think this, and if they do, they’ve clearly been enchanted by his bollocks. 
 

Any shred of respect I had for the man dissipated a long time ago. Him staying here has just destroyed the bloke and he knows it, which is why he was on the self defence for so long, now, I just think he’s downright depressed and is waiting for the nightmare to end. 
 

The problem is, it will end with relegation, and we will be in some serious shite.

No matter how many times you think changing the manager will help long term, it wont.. you cant polish a turd. I fully blame the players here, we need a refresh. BR will bring us back to glory!!!!! #4moreyears!!!!

 

Edited 22 March 2023 by Simoken

[Pliskin]

7 minutes ago, Simoken said:

No matter how many times you think changing the manager will help long term, it wont.. you cant polish a turd. I fully blame the players here, we need a refresh. BR will bring us back to glory!!!!! #4moreyears!!!!

 

The only glory Brendan will bring is the hole he will cut out in his toilet cubical door! 

[Simoken]

11 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

The only glory Brendan will bring is the hole he will cut out in his toilet cubical door! 

Can we keep this strictly football? and not based off your pornhub search history.

 

[Pliskin]

1 hour ago, Simoken said:

Can we keep this strictly football? and not based off your pornhub search history.

 

What hub? How dare you, I nearly choked during my communion! 

Edited 22 March 2023 by Pliskin

[smudgerfox]

7 hours ago, Pete52 said:

In terms of what he does well, he's clearly a very good coach. A lot of our players have improved, particularly the young English lads (KDH, Maddison, Barnes, JJ -

Is he ? 
 

He’s improved Maddison. No question. Youri is a more complete player than when he arrived. 
 

Barnes? He arrived (from loan at West Brom) as a marauding all purpose forward who could score and assist right across the forward line. An England call up seemed a certainty.

 

Now he plays in a twenty yard wide corridor  down one side of the pitch, receiving identical  passes over and over again and trying to score the exact same goal over and over again. 
 

KDH is beginning to look stuck in a similar rut and I can’t see any improvement in JJ (when fit) that you couldn’t put down to age and experience.

 

The squad is full of coaching failures (unexploited, unimproved talent) - Soyuncu, Amartey, Praet, Perez, Soumare, Mendy, Ihenacho, Daka). You could add in the failure to prepare for kaspers departure and to find useful roles for Vardy and Albrighton as a sign of lack of forward thinking. 
 

But surely the most telling coaching inadequacies:

failure to establish a reliable defence ;

failure to defend set pieces (repeatedly); 

concession of late goals and at other psychologically significant moments;

inability to fight back after falling behind;

huge injury list;

inability to use subs to change game momentum. 
 

 

 

 

 

[ceebeefox]

1 minute ago, smudgerfox said:

Is he ? 
 

He’s improved Maddison. No question. Youri is a more complete player than when he arrived. 
 

Barnes? He arrived (from loan at West Brom) as a marauding all purpose forward who could score and assist right across the forward line. An England call up seemed a certainty.

 

Now he plays in a twenty yard wide corridor  down one side of the pitch, receiving identical  passes over and over again and trying to score the exact same goal over and over again. 
 

KDH is beginning to look stuck in a similar rut and I can’t see any improvement in JJ (when fit) that you couldn’t put down to age and experience.

 

The squad is full of coaching failures (unexploited, unimproved talent) - Soyuncu, Amartey, Praet, Perez, Soumare, Mendy, Ihenacho, Daka). You could add in the failure to prepare for kaspers departure and to find useful roles for Vardy and Albrighton as a sign of lack of forward thinking. 
 

But surely the most telling coaching inadequacies:

failure to establish a reliable defence ;

failure to defend set pieces (repeatedly); 

concession of late goals and at other psychologically significant moments;

inability to fight back after falling behind;

huge injury list;

inability to use subs to change game momentum. 
 

 

 

 

 

Agree with you on Harvey, why on earth don’t him and Tete ever switch? They never rotate. How easy must it be to keep them quiet? And who knows a left footer playing on the left, and right footer on the right, we might start to see quality balls in to Vardy or Daka to attack and do what they do best. I’m not sure Vardy is done yet, if he got balls in from out wide.

The lack of switching round up top and not leaving men up from an opposition corner shows Brendan up for what he is.

[LCFCJohn]

1 hour ago, smudgerfox said:

Is he ? 
 

He’s improved Maddison. No question. Youri is a more complete player than when he arrived. 
 

Barnes? He arrived (from loan at West Brom) as a marauding all purpose forward who could score and assist right across the forward line. An England call up seemed a certainty.

 

Now he plays in a twenty yard wide corridor  down one side of the pitch, receiving identical  passes over and over again and trying to score the exact same goal over and over again. 
 

KDH is beginning to look stuck in a similar rut and I can’t see any improvement in JJ (when fit) that you couldn’t put down to age and experience.

 

The squad is full of coaching failures (unexploited, unimproved talent) - Soyuncu, Amartey, Praet, Perez, Soumare, Mendy, Ihenacho, Daka). You could add in the failure to prepare for kaspers departure and to find useful roles for Vardy and Albrighton as a sign of lack of forward thinking. 
 

But surely the most telling coaching inadequacies:

failure to establish a reliable defence ;

failure to defend set pieces (repeatedly); 

concession of late goals and at other psychologically significant moments;

inability to fight back after falling behind;

huge injury list;

inability to use subs to change game momentum. 
 

 

 

 

 

It’s questionable about Maddison too. He’s the only player to have progressed and not gone backwards in the whole squad, but surely that was his natural trajectory anyway? He’s a very gifted player and would probably be so with Rodgers, Puel or even Shakespeare. 

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, LCFCJohn said:

It’s questionable about Maddison too. He’s the only player to have progressed and not gone backwards in the whole squad, but surely that was his natural trajectory anyway? He’s a very gifted player and would probably be so with Rodgers, Puel or even Shakespeare. 

...you would say that Shakey coached the Premier winning squad!!!

 We certainly need his input once again. As a resident coach, who is not tied to any new manager, it would be a great way to keep up a level of coaching. The only problem would be any incoming manager who is prepared to accept this.

[pmcla26]

2 hours ago, smudgerfox said:

Is he ? 
 

He’s improved Maddison. No question. Youri is a more complete player than when he arrived. 
 

Barnes? He arrived (from loan at West Brom) as a marauding all purpose forward who could score and assist right across the forward line. An England call up seemed a certainty.

 

Now he plays in a twenty yard wide corridor  down one side of the pitch, receiving identical  passes over and over again and trying to score the exact same goal over and over again. 
 

KDH is beginning to look stuck in a similar rut and I can’t see any improvement in JJ (when fit) that you couldn’t put down to age and experience.

 

The squad is full of coaching failures (unexploited, unimproved talent) - Soyuncu, Amartey, Praet, Perez, Soumare, Mendy, Ihenacho, Daka). You could add in the failure to prepare for kaspers departure and to find useful roles for Vardy and Albrighton as a sign of lack of forward thinking. 
 

But surely the most telling coaching inadequacies:

failure to establish a reliable defence ;

failure to defend set pieces (repeatedly); 

concession of late goals and at other psychologically significant moments;

inability to fight back after falling behind;

huge injury list;

inability to use subs to change game momentum. 
 

 

 

 

 

I’d say the four English lads I listed in my first post are all better players than they were before Rodgers started working with them. 
 

Iheanacho is definitely a much better player than he was. He was terrible under Puel and is now probably our best striker (partly down to Vardy’s drop off, of course). Could probably get more out of him, though. Don’t know if that’s a Rodgers thing or just that Iheanacho is wildly inconsistent and always will be. 
 

The others I would agree with. Daka still has time to come good. I think Soyuncu’s drop off is mostly down to a desire from him to be elsewhere. 
 

Albrighton and Vardy I would say is a natural decline. 
 

Can’t argue with the other things on the list. The only one you could slightly make a case for is the fact Knudsen was bought in and seems to have improved a lot of the set-piece issues, but they’re still not perfect. 
 

Like I said in my post, Rodgers has flaws but think any manager we could realistically attract will probably have just as many, if not more. 

[pmcla26]

2 hours ago, ceebeefox said:

Agree with you on Harvey, why on earth don’t him and Tete ever switch? They never rotate. How easy must it be to keep them quiet? And who knows a left footer playing on the left, and right footer on the right, we might start to see quality balls in to Vardy or Daka to attack and do what they do best. I’m not sure Vardy is done yet, if he got balls in from out wide.

The lack of switching round up top and not leaving men up from an opposition corner shows Brendan up for what he is.

I think it’s quite obvious that Barnes would be pretty meh on the right. His dribbling and his crossing is average. I think it’s best just to leave him to do what he’s one of the best in the league in that position at, which is cut in and score goals. I don’t think Barnes’ position is an issue in our team - it’s probably one of our strongest having him there, in fact. Maybe wouldn’t hurt to try swapping him and Tete for 10 minutes here and there to keep opposition guessing, but can’t see it working effectively, personally. 
 

Up front on the left side of a striking pairing in a 3-5-2 with Iheanacho may be a better option, though? Both can then play in those half spaces between centre-halves and full-backs cutting in on their strong foot, which they are both very good at. I suppose that the only thing is that currently we have Vardy and Daka who would be ahead of the queue before Barnes in the striking role, and that would probably upset both of their confidence going into this end of the season were he to start ahead of them both. 

 

Also, not sure now is the time to start trying players in new positions - maybe something to think about next season, though. 

[filbertway]

Rodgers credited with improving Kel is one of the funniest things I've read on here

 

Fair play

[dmayne7]

12 hours ago, Pete52 said:

I think it's a tough one, tbh. A lot tougher than a lot of the staunch "Rodgers Out-ers" make it sound. 

 

You have a manager who is clearly very good in most aspects, but has certain flaws that he doesn't seem to make much progress on improving.

 

The main one being his inability to organise a team defensively, unless he has quality individuals like in most of 19/20 and 20/21. His substitutions leave something to be desired at times, too, and he also sometimes persists with certain players for too long (Daniel Amartey, Danny Ward and Luke Thomas being the main 3 - although Thomas was more out of necessity. Some could argue Ayoze Perez, too, but he's actually been our best RW in Rodgers time here so far, unless you count Maddison's run their at the start of the season or Lookman, but I'd argue their positions are behind the striker and on the left). His transfers (if they were his transfers) haven't been good enough either, but I also blame the club for allowing him that control and also for handing out the contracts that have made them so hard to to move on - we would have said bye to Vestergaard and Bertrand by now if they weren't on so much money. The injuries are also concerning, but without knowing Rodgers training methods and what goes on behind the scenes, it's hard to appropriate the blame to anyone in particular, although I imagine it's a little more than coincidence. 

 

Off of the pitch, personally I don't think he's ever said much that wrong (the rebuild comments probably the main thing, was too early to say that + the expectations about "being happy to stay in the league" being wrong, apart from that I think he talks quite well and is level-headed, doesn't often lose his composure in the media), but he has sometimes been a bit too honest in the public eye (please don't come for me, I know a lot of you don't agree and have read your reasons why) which hasn't sold himself to certain sections of the fan base who maybe feel they have been let down on us building upon our success of the first few years under Rodgers (which is fair enough, I'm disappointed we didn't capitalise on it too, however it was always going to be difficult), then there are a few who have an ever so slightly inflated idea of where we are at as a club in the context of teams surrounding us in the Premier League and some who just haven't warmed to him ever, for personal reasons that I just don't understand, to be quite honest. I don't think he seems a bad bloke.

 

In terms of what he does well, he's clearly a very good coach. A lot of our players have improved, particularly the young English lads (KDH, Maddison, Barnes, JJ - although injuries have hurt his progress, Thomas and Choudhury being the two outliers but there is still time for Thomas and Choudhury just isn't a top-half Premier League footballer I don't think). They also seem to get on really well with him and his man-management seems to be a plus point from what those who have spoke about him in the media have said, besides Vestergaard, but he's crap anyway. Not just that, but when he has the players to suit his system, he really can optimise the results that they achieve and the football that they play. The problem is, he doesn't have all the necessary components right now to play the best football we can. We inhibit and restrict ourselves due to a lack of trust in the defence. We aren't able to press in the same manner as previously or commit bodies forward in possession in the same way, as the defensive part of the team can't be trusted to mop up behind the same way that Schmeichel, Cags (19/20), Evans, Fofana and Ndidi could be previously. Ward/Iverson, Amartey, Faes, Souttar and Mendy/Soumare/post-injury Ndidi (although very good on Saturday) is a monumental drop off in quality that I find it hard to blame Rodgers for. That part of the team needs at least a goalkeeper and centre-back signing in the summer to hopefully allow some of the shackles to be loosened again on the more offensive players in the team. Equally, a manager of his quality should have found a better solution to this problem than what we are currently seeing, and for that I do lay the blame at Rodgers' door. 

 

I think from the club's perspective, they don't see a much better option out there as they'll be shelling out millions of pounds to sack Rodgers and replace him with a second-rate manager like Marsch, Lampard or Gerrard. There aren't many decent options available. I know people will say foreign names from abroad, but we know that they favour some PL managerial experience, even if you disagree with this approach I can't see them changing that right now. Furthermore, I don't think they'll hire someone without that experience in our current position, but if they were to do so, it would be in a summer window where they can give them time to settle and get their own players in.

 

Overall, I think sacking Rodgers right now wouldn't be good timing. Previously, there may have been better chances to do so, and also, the summer may be a better chance to part ways. I'm pretty comfortable with the idea that we'll stay up and don't really have many concerns on that front, even if the table doesn't look pretty. I think if we're really in the shit towards the end then Maddison and Barnes will turn it on and get us out of it, anyway. The most likely scenario, IMO, is that we stay up this season, Rodgers stays on, Glover and co. handle the transfer business (not Rodgers and Congerton) and we sign some decent players and have a better season next season around mid-table. I do understand the anxiety and concern that many have, and that some just don't like Rodgers (fair enough), but I honestly think we will be fine and this will just have to go down as a bad season due to numerous circumstances, when we look back at it in years to come. 

A long post so I don't want to pick loads of holes in it but it's as though you're writing about him as he was 2 years ago. All the good he's done has been undone with his incompetence on many levels. Anyone who tells you he's a crap manager is talking rubbish as he's done plenty of good work in his career just as he did for his first 2 years. But his track record is exactly that; good for a couple of years (which is like many managers in the modern game) but then utter disaster on the horizon after that (which is not necessarily like other managers). He'll go elsewhere and do really well for a bit before the cycle repeats.

 

No matter how many people want to downplay the ability we had in the squad and off the field to an extent, we really did have a crack at changing the narrative of this club for the next 10-20 years as a club that consistently challenges for European places, with maybe the odd Champions League campaign but also the odd season of finishing 14th. For as much as a gap as there is between us and the 'top 6', there was also a pretty big chasm to the others, West Ham excluded. Now, he has to take some credit for us being in that position of course but he's utterly destroyed that. He has played the key role in ruining our chances of being an established top 8 team with what he's done on and off the pitch. He's gone from hero to zero. He's utterly incompetent and the moment and the most arrogant manager around. Even guys that you'd perceive as arrogant; Mourinho, Klopp, Pep, they all suck up their pride when they need to and deviate from their plan when they need to. You never get that from Rodgers.

 

And the timing to sack him now would be silly but had we done it at any point in the first 20-25 games of the season, I'd share your complete optimism that we'd be fine. Way too many good players in this team for that to not get a few wins when just sent out there to do the business (a good manager then hones that into added tactical nous).

 

The saddest part is that it's really turned fans against each other. It's no longer contrasting opinions; it's awareness of the situation Vs blind faith. The fact you say Rodgers has been too honest when he's been as far away from that as possible, and said far worse than anyone like Conte or Parker ever said then paid the price for it, is just an example of his media mastery working. If you cannot see the utter destruction he has left in his path and what he is doing to this football club then I just feel really sorry for you and even more sad at the whole situation.

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, filbertway said:

Rodgers credited with improving Kel is one of the funniest things I've read on here

 

Fair play

.. it is probably the reason why we are so split in this fanbase!!!

 People crediting Rodgers with so much, in respect of developement of players, where they have all gone backwards under him.

 Apart from Maddison who is a standout this season,  everyone is pretty underpowered. 

  Your Barnes and KDH developed away from our club, JJ came to us and impressed.

Edited 22 March 2023 by sacreblueits442
Spelling error.

[LCFCJohn]

7 hours ago, dmayne7 said:

A long post so I don't want to pick loads of holes in it but it's as though you're writing about him as he was 2 years ago. All the good he's done has been undone with his incompetence on many levels. Anyone who tells you he's a crap manager is talking rubbish as he's done plenty of good work in his career just as he did for his first 2 years. But his track record is exactly that; good for a couple of years (which is like many managers in the modern game) but then utter disaster on the horizon after that (which is not necessarily like other managers). He'll go elsewhere and do really well for a bit before the cycle repeats.

 

No matter how many people want to downplay the ability we had in the squad and off the field to an extent, we really did have a crack at changing the narrative of this club for the next 10-20 years as a club that consistently challenges for European places, with maybe the odd Champions League campaign but also the odd season of finishing 14th. For as much as a gap as there is between us and the 'top 6', there was also a pretty big chasm to the others, West Ham excluded. Now, he has to take some credit for us being in that position of course but he's utterly destroyed that. He has played the key role in ruining our chances of being an established top 8 team with what he's done on and off the pitch. He's gone from hero to zero. He's utterly incompetent and the moment and the most arrogant manager around. Even guys that you'd perceive as arrogant; Mourinho, Klopp, Pep, they all suck up their pride when they need to and deviate from their plan when they need to. You never get that from Rodgers.

 

And the timing to sack him now would be silly but had we done it at any point in the first 20-25 games of the season, I'd share your complete optimism that we'd be fine. Way too many good players in this team for that to not get a few wins when just sent out there to do the business (a good manager then hones that into added tactical nous).

 

The saddest part is that it's really turned fans against each other. It's no longer contrasting opinions; it's awareness of the situation Vs blind faith. The fact you say Rodgers has been too honest when he's been as far away from that as possible, and said far worse than anyone like Conte or Parker ever said then paid the price for it, is just an example of his media mastery working. If you cannot see the utter destruction he has left in his path and what he is doing to this football club then I just feel really sorry for you and even more sad at the whole situation.

I think I’d use terms such as limited or short term to describe him. The post you have quoted saying he’s ‘very good’ at ‘most things’ is incorrect as we have so many flaws that he has repeatedly shown.

 

I am as Rodgers out as anyone and he is crap and a bad manager now. However, what he does do well he does very well (taking over a set to go team and riding that wave). So yeah I’d saying he’s limited but makes a name out of milking his limitations if that makes sense.

[HighPeakFox]

I accept just about every anti/pro-BR angle posted here, but could really do without the 'if you disagree with me over this, you're mentally ill' argument, which is just insufferably arrogant.

[fuchsntf]

4 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

I accept just about every anti/pro-BR angle posted here, but could really do without the 'if you disagree with me over this, you're mentally ill' argument, which is just insufferably arrogant.

It’s become the arrogant ,bullying toxic posting norm of the day…

The Asbos have slowly taken over…Ruining a damn good Forum,and taken over all Rhetoric, Banter, over any topic debate…

It’s forged such a command & shadow,that an easy pastime of discussion,over one’s football club ruins every weekend..Worse than our clubs football predicament,and worse than anything Rodgers does…Where also many lies clickbait fan statements on POV and assumption are concocted,then repeated later has some fans collective fact, to help their cause…

They have become a minority with the loudest voice…

I like others come on here, ( like yourself) not to be brow-beaten,or hold a balance.

 

I like the  balanced poster know, we also can, and will be wrong on POV,or just come for the football Banter,or World perspectives & exchange thereof..

 

I have no idea how many of the rest of the fanbase want him out,

just on (and only) his lack of delivering,just this season…

People who would sell their grandma to get him out

Posters who don’t like this last 18 months but happy he stays..

 

Polls with 300-1000 max,voters is no measuring stick,from 38k+ fans.

So using % is crap..
 

learning opposite perspectives,doesn’t see a strength on this forum,but then again,it might be only 300-1000 that have this difficulty..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gerard]

On 22/03/2023 at 10:05, Pete52 said:

I think it's a tough one, tbh. A lot tougher than a lot of the staunch "Rodgers Out-ers" make it sound. 

 

You have a manager who is clearly very good in most aspects, but has certain flaws that he doesn't seem to make much progress on improving.

 

The main one being his inability to organise a team defensively, unless he has quality individuals like in most of 19/20 and 20/21. His substitutions leave something to be desired at times, too, and he also sometimes persists with certain players for too long (Daniel Amartey, Danny Ward and Luke Thomas being the main 3 - although Thomas was more out of necessity. Some could argue Ayoze Perez, too, but he's actually been our best RW in Rodgers time here so far, unless you count Maddison's run their at the start of the season or Lookman, but I'd argue their positions are behind the striker and on the left). His transfers (if they were his transfers) haven't been good enough either, but I also blame the club for allowing him that control and also for handing out the contracts that have made them so hard to to move on - we would have said bye to Vestergaard and Bertrand by now if they weren't on so much money. The injuries are also concerning, but without knowing Rodgers training methods and what goes on behind the scenes, it's hard to appropriate the blame to anyone in particular, although I imagine it's a little more than coincidence. 

 

Off of the pitch, personally I don't think he's ever said much that wrong (the rebuild comments probably the main thing, was too early to say that + the expectations about "being happy to stay in the league" being wrong, apart from that I think he talks quite well and is level-headed, doesn't often lose his composure in the media), but he has sometimes been a bit too honest in the public eye (please don't come for me, I know a lot of you don't agree and have read your reasons why) which hasn't sold himself to certain sections of the fan base who maybe feel they have been let down on us building upon our success of the first few years under Rodgers (which is fair enough, I'm disappointed we didn't capitalise on it too, however it was always going to be difficult), then there are a few who have an ever so slightly inflated idea of where we are at as a club in the context of teams surrounding us in the Premier League and some who just haven't warmed to him ever, for personal reasons that I just don't understand, to be quite honest. I don't think he seems a bad bloke.

 

In terms of what he does well, he's clearly a very good coach. A lot of our players have improved, particularly the young English lads (KDH, Maddison, Barnes, JJ - although injuries have hurt his progress, Thomas and Choudhury being the two outliers but there is still time for Thomas and Choudhury just isn't a top-half Premier League footballer I don't think). They also seem to get on really well with him and his man-management seems to be a plus point from what those who have spoke about him in the media have said, besides Vestergaard, but he's crap anyway. Not just that, but when he has the players to suit his system, he really can optimise the results that they achieve and the football that they play. The problem is, he doesn't have all the necessary components right now to play the best football we can. We inhibit and restrict ourselves due to a lack of trust in the defence. We aren't able to press in the same manner as previously or commit bodies forward in possession in the same way, as the defensive part of the team can't be trusted to mop up behind the same way that Schmeichel, Cags (19/20), Evans, Fofana and Ndidi could be previously. Ward/Iverson, Amartey, Faes, Souttar and Mendy/Soumare/post-injury Ndidi (although very good on Saturday) is a monumental drop off in quality that I find it hard to blame Rodgers for. That part of the team needs at least a goalkeeper and centre-back signing in the summer to hopefully allow some of the shackles to be loosened again on the more offensive players in the team. Equally, a manager of his quality should have found a better solution to this problem than what we are currently seeing, and for that I do lay the blame at Rodgers' door. 

 

I think from the club's perspective, they don't see a much better option out there as they'll be shelling out millions of pounds to sack Rodgers and replace him with a second-rate manager like Marsch, Lampard or Gerrard. There aren't many decent options available. I know people will say foreign names from abroad, but we know that they favour some PL managerial experience, even if you disagree with this approach I can't see them changing that right now. Furthermore, I don't think they'll hire someone without that experience in our current position, but if they were to do so, it would be in a summer window where they can give them time to settle and get their own players in.

 

Overall, I think sacking Rodgers right now wouldn't be good timing. Previously, there may have been better chances to do so, and also, the summer may be a better chance to part ways. I'm pretty comfortable with the idea that we'll stay up and don't really have many concerns on that front, even if the table doesn't look pretty. I think if we're really in the shit towards the end then Maddison and Barnes will turn it on and get us out of it, anyway. The most likely scenario, IMO, is that we stay up this season, Rodgers stays on, Glover and co. handle the transfer business (not Rodgers and Congerton) and we sign some decent players and have a better season next season around mid-table. I do understand the anxiety and concern that many have, and that some just don't like Rodgers (fair enough), but I honestly think we will be fine and this will just have to go down as a bad season due to numerous circumstances, when we look back at it in years to come. 

 

If you're going to give Rodgers credit for Maddison's improvement then it's only right he takes criticism for the downward trajectory of Soyuncu, Thomas, Ndidi, Tielemans and Barnes.

 

By the end of his first year here he had done a brilliant job and we were arguably the best team in the country outside of Man City and Liverpool. More than half our team were players in the 21-22 age bracket and without exaggeration were some of the best half a dozen at one club crop of young players in world football. He has totally mismanaged the excellent conditions he had this time three years ago and has only sold Chilwell, Maguire and Fofana of note whilst spending £250m in his time here.

 

His attitude is appalling as well, akin to a spoilt child blaming everything but himself. It's very likely that he has already mentally checked out of the job months ago and just waiting to part ways, has to go in the summer relegated or not.

[fuchsntf]

On 22/03/2023 at 11:17, Mickyblueeyes said:

Its not ambition motivating calls for Brendan Rodgers to be sacked. His team have been unable to consistently defend a corner for what is now 2 years. The basics under him are not right. Nor are they right above him. 

 

Its common sense that change is needed and fast. 

Such points are valid and make for decent posts exchange..

 

On my opinion alone this is the only basic and major reason, I want him to go,the natural failing step on where normally the descision is made...The rest is just noise, & OTT letting loose weekly frustrations....Outside opinions mostly clickbait media,after reading fanbase discussions.No ITKs..subversions.

 

Why the club are holding on this,we are all clueless, but there might be a situation,where club and manager have put down promises,and club are not ready to jump.

 

Edited 23 March 2023 by fuchsntf