General News

[Lionator]

19 minutes ago, tom27111 said:

We all know Trump is an utter cvnt, but this is incredibly alarming.

 

He's had a shouting match with a guy who's country had been invaded by what is usually America's biggest enemy.

 

Seriously, what the actual fvck.

 

 

The problem is that Trump doesn’t see Russia as an enemy. He’s sees them as a much bigger financial ally than Ukraine and maybe even the rest of Europe at this point. 

[Sampson]

10 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Of course he can pour fuel onto the fire that’s already burning 

best to just let things calm down a bit 

trump has already said hes welcome back when he’s  ready to talk peace!  

trump wants the minerals in Ukraine away from the four oblasts already under Russian occupation.  I reckon trump will try and make a deal with Russia over those.  This is also about trying to separate Russia from china’s grasp. Trump sees that as a bigger threat to americas global position - he only cares for what he can get out of ukraine in a deal.   

You’re being very naive and living on previous ideals that have been smashed to pieces. Trump has repeated over and over he’s not going to give security guarantees as part of any deal so there is no  “peace deal” to talk about. What is the point of Zelensky discussing peace with the US if they aren’t going to defend them and leave them as a sitting duck for Putin a year or two in the future?

 

You’re talking about a previous world order that no longer exists where America defends western and Central Europe for ideological reasons because it believes in defending liberal democracies. Trump is very open that he doesn’t care about these things if they cost the US a single penny.

Edited 28 February by Sampson

[Lionator]

2 minutes ago, Dunge said:

Problem is, it’s not as simple as saying “Europe, unite”. What do you do about Hungary and Slovakia, for instance? What about other far-right parties across Europe who are both sympathetic toward Russia and could get into power?

Orban is going to lose in 2026 and even despite all the bluster, those countries still go along with most of the policy decisions in the EU. Hungary are still funding Ukraine for example. 

[Md9]

16 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

I think an assassination is likely given the sheer number of people he’s pissing off.

 

Mean, firing a load of FBI agents isn’t the smartest move if you’ve already had an attempt against your life.

Probably wouldn’t work they would try to blow his brains out so he would be lucky because he didn’t have any so would just go through his hollow head with no damage 

[Lionator]

A lot of people are saying that the ‘peace deal is off’, are completely misunderstanding how much Ukraine have relied on the United States. Europe cannot go this alone, our economies are not designed for it. We can let our elderly freeze or choose to massively fund and arm Ukraine. We can’t do both. Ukraine don’t have a choice, if they ‘reject’ a peace deal, then they’ll collapse. 

[ramboacdc]

57 minutes ago, Jattdogg said:

Vance trying to act like a trump tough guy makes me laugh.

 

Guy wouldn't last 10 seconds with Zelensky in a ring.

Vance is trying to impress his boss and keep the party together once Trump snuffs it. 

 

He knows the instant Trump is gone, the power vacuum will collapse the party. He is currently that yippee dog you see that shouts through the fence as you walk past, but if you open it, they roll over.

[Jattdogg]

50 minutes ago, tom27111 said:

We all know Trump is an utter cvnt, but this is incredibly alarming.

 

He's had a shouting match with a guy who's country had been invaded by what is usually America's biggest enemy.

 

Seriously, what the actual fvck.

 

 

Trump only cares about watch enriches him and his personal bank account.

[Sampson]

9 minutes ago, Lionator said:

A lot of people are saying that the ‘peace deal is off’, are completely misunderstanding how much Ukraine have relied on the United States. Europe cannot go this alone, our economies are not designed for it. We can let our elderly freeze or choose to massively fund and arm Ukraine. We can’t do both. Ukraine don’t have a choice, if they ‘reject’ a peace deal, then they’ll collapse. 

No one is misunderstanding the US economic involvement, what we are talking about is what the “peace deal” actually means. There is no “peace deal” if the US does not provide security guarantees which Trump continuously says ir won’t.

 

The “peace treaty” means the US is pulling its resources anyway in exchange for Ukraine giving it stuff and then provides absolutely nothing to enforce the peace - in fact promises the opposite - it openly signals to Putin they won’t enforce it and won’t defend any further invasion. So that Putin can have a temporary cease fire for a bit to build back up his army.

 

The “peace deal” means “oh I’m sure that Putin guy will stick to his word, let’s take some of your resources while we’re at it”.

 

It’s not a peace deal, it’s appeasement, it’s Neville Chamberlain to Czechoslovakia.

Edited 28 February by Sampson

[Dahnsouff]

The Art of the Deal

 

....and it's live!! 

[Zear0]

3 minutes ago, Sampson said:

No one is misunderstanding the US economic involvement, what you are misunderstanding is what the “peace deal” means. There is no “peace deal” if the US does not provide security guarantees which Trump continuously says ir won’t.

 

The “peace treaty” means the US id pulling its resources anyway in exchange for Ukraine giving it stuff. So that Putin can have a temporary cease fire for a bit to build back up his army.

 

The “peace deal” means “oh I’m sure that Putin guy will stick to his word, let’s take some of your resources while we’re at it”.

 

It’s not a peace deal, it’s appeasement, it’s Neville Chamberlain to Czechoslovakia.

 

Felt the mood needed lightening on this grim day.

[ajthefox]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

The Art of the Deal

 

....and it's live!! 

Would love to see the post-game analysis from Carragher and Neville...

[Jattdogg]

He must have the most punchable face ever.

[Torquay Gunner]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

I disagree

Nothing good will come from it imo

hopefully he will just keep repeating how grateful he is for the support of the USA and not allow the host to push him into more responses that will upset trump.  

No because we would n’t want little Donnie upset. 

Edited 28 February by Torquay Gunner

[Lionator]

7 minutes ago, Sampson said:

No one is misunderstanding the US economic involvement, what we are talking about is what the “peace deal” actually means. There is no “peace deal” if the US does not provide security guarantees which Trump continuously says ir won’t.

 

The “peace treaty” means the US is pulling its resources anyway in exchange for Ukraine giving it stuff and then provides absolutely nothing to enforce the peace - in fact promises the opposite - it openly signals to Putin they won’t enforce it and won’t defend any further invasion. So that Putin can have a temporary cease fire for a bit to build back up his army.

 

The “peace deal” means “oh I’m sure that Putin guy will stick to his word, let’s take some of your resources while we’re at it”.

 

It’s not a peace deal, it’s appeasement, it’s Neville Chamberlain to Czechoslovakia.

Sickening rudeness aside, Trump is just doing what Biden was afraid to say. For three years they lied and gaslighted Ukraine into thinking they could join NATO when they had absolutely no intention of that ever happening. It was a pathetic, weak policy, it was dangerous. Of course the USA is never going to fight against Russians because we all know where that leads. Yet Biden and Blinken made the Ukrainians think that that was a possibility. So while what happened today was disgusting, it is not a new issue, it is a culmination of muddled geopolitical thinking. 
 

Putin also won’t need to rebuild his army to attack Ukraine again because he’s probably going to get what he wants anyway now. A neutral Ukrainian state not in NATO. Unless of course you believe he’s Hitler pt.2 and is going to roll through Europe. 

[Sampson]

20 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Sickening rudeness aside, Trump is just doing what Biden was afraid to say. For three years they lied and gaslighted Ukraine into thinking they could join NATO when they had absolutely no intention of that ever happening. It was a pathetic, weak policy, it was dangerous. Of course the USA is never going to fight against Russians because we all know where that leads. Yet Biden and Blinken made the Ukrainians think that that was a possibility. So while what happened today was disgusting, it is not a new issue, it is a culmination of muddled geopolitical thinking. 
 

Putin also won’t need to rebuild his army to attack Ukraine again because he’s probably going to get what he wants anyway now. A neutral Ukrainian state not in NATO. Unless of course you believe he’s Hitler pt.2 and is going to roll through Europe. 

Putin has said several times he doesn’t believe Ukraine is a real nation, it’s not about territory or a “neutral” Ukraine out of NATO.. He doesn’t want a “neutral” Ukraine. He wants Ukraine to be like Belarus and essentially an obedient puppet state - this is true with the Baltics, Moldova, Georgia and other former Soviet states in the Caucasus and Balkana too. He essentially wants to rebuilt the former Soviet bloc. 
 

Yes, of course I think Putin isn’t suddenly going to stop at an “neutral Ukraine”, do you? Have you not seen the suspicious pro-Russian election results in Georgia and Romania recently?

 

Trying to spin it as  Biden “gaslighting” is an extremely Trumpian viewpoint to blame anything on anyone else in an excuse to smash things. This is deliberate policy from Trump to pull funding in foreign aid around the world literally overnight- not just from Ukraine - Jordan for example had almost 1/3rd of its national budget provided by the US in a mission of state building and was pulled almost overnight and watch it descend into a kleptocracy now.

 

Rory Stewart as former foreign minister who worked in Afghanistan laid it out very knowledgeably in his latest podcast about just what the US sudden pulling of foreign aid means to the world. 

 

Again, you’re talking like Trump is playing some kind of great diplomacy or bluffing about something between the lines when he’s being very open about what he stands for in “America first” and he continues to be open with that. It’s nothing to do with Trump trying to allow some “neutral Ukraine” - it’s that he doesn’t care one jot about Europe nor about defending liberal democratic values and will happily let Putin dominate Europe or descend into starvation so long as America doesn’t have to pay a penny into it. 

Edited 28 February by Sampson

[Dr The Singh]

My 2 pence.

 

If I was the one bank rolling my families peace and others weren't pulling there weight and 2 of them were fighting.

 

I would expect all of my family to acknowledge my dominance and give me.the respect.  The 2 fighting, if for one of them I believed they only exist because of the help I have provided and they want me to protect them, I expect that person to be basically acknowledge.my dominance and do as he/she is told or doo one.

 

I think Zelenski needs to look at himself and be alot more thankful.

[Dunge]

5 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

My 2 pence.

 

If I was the one bank rolling my families peace and others weren't pulling there weight and 2 of them were fighting.

 

I would expect all of my family to acknowledge my dominance and give me.the respect.  The 2 fighting, if for one of them I believed they only exist because of the help I have provided and they want me to protect them, I expect that person to be basically acknowledge.my dominance and do as he/she is told or doo one.

 

I think Zelenski needs to look at himself and be alot more thankful.

I think that’s fair, up to the point where the second family member has been trying to kill the first and you’re now proposing that both he and you each take one of the first’s kidneys.

[Lionator]

21 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Putin has said several times he doesn’t believe Ukraine is a real nation, it’s not about territory or a “neutral” Ukraine out of NATO.. He doesn’t want a “neutral” Ukraine. He wants Ukraine to be like Belarus and essentially an obedient puppet state - this is true with the Baltics, Moldova, Georgia and other former Soviet states in the Caucasus and Balkana too. He essentially wants to rebuilt the former Soviet bloc. 
 

Yes, of course I think Putin isn’t suddenly going to stop at an “neutral Ukraine”, do you? Have you not seen the suspicious pro-Russian election results in Georgia and Romania recently?

 

Trying to spin it as  Biden “gaslighting” is an extremely Trumpian viewpoint to blame anything on anyone else in an excuse to smash things. This is deliberate policy from Trump to pull funding in foreign aid around the world literally overnight- not just from Ukraine - Jordan for example had almost 1/3rd of its national budget provided by the US in a mission of state building and was pulled almost overnight and watch it descend into a kleptocracy now.

 

Rory Stewart as former foreign minister who worked in Afghanistan laid it out very knowledgeably in his latest podcast about just what the US sudden pulling of foreign aid means to the world. 

 

Again, you’re talking like Trump is playing some kind of great diplomacy or bluffing about something between the lines when he’s being very open about what he stands for in “America first” and he continues to be open with that. It’s nothing to do with Trump trying to allow some “neutral Ukraine” - it’s that he doesn’t care one jot about Europe nor about defending liberal democratic values and will happily let Putin dominate Europe or descend into starvation so long as America doesn’t have to pay a penny into it. 

I don’t care for Trump, he’s a lunatic.

 

My discomfort is with the last administration. Frankly there’s two ways to view the world, the first is that there is a right and wrong way to be ie liberal democratic values good, everything else bad (even as a Liberal Democrat myself), the second is the Kissinger style real politik. A cynical, disgusting world where everything is transactional. Unfortunately the last administration gaslighted Zelenskyy into thinking the first one is reality, when as we see now, and have seen since 1945, it’s the second. 
 

And yes maybe this will bite me on the arse, but Putin the loser hasn’t been able to take a fifth of Ukraine, while destroying his economy, wiping out the next generation of Russian males and blowing all of Russia’s Soviet stockpiles. Why should I believe that he’s going to take on the whole of Europe? 

[Dunge]

2 minutes ago, Lionator said:

I don’t care for Trump, he’s a lunatic.

 

My discomfort is with the last administration. Frankly there’s two ways to view the world, the first is that there is a right and wrong way to be ie liberal democratic values good, everything else bad (even as a Liberal Democrat myself), the second is the Kissinger style real politik. A cynical, disgusting world where everything is transactional. Unfortunately the last administration gaslighted Zelenskyy into thinking the first one is reality, when as we see now, and have seen since 1945, it’s the second. 
 

And yes maybe this will bite me on the arse, but Putin the loser hasn’t been able to take a fifth of Ukraine, while destroying his economy, wiping out the next generation of Russian males and blowing all of Russia’s Soviet stockpiles. Why should I believe that he’s going to take on the whole of Europe? 

I think Putin took inspiration from Hamlet three years ago - when he went charging into Ukraine and tried to take Kyiv, nobody was quite sure whether he was mad. Even his own regime looked worried.

 

Now of course, we know that he’s not. But he is using identifiable strategies. One of those strategies is to never take a backward step. Another is that if you’re in trouble you hang in there and wait for something to happen. Both have been working for him. The other strategy that we’ve seen from him over the years is to probe at something and see what happens. He’s done it in Georgia, he did it in Ukraine multiple times before the full-scale invasion. He’ll probably do similar in the future, arming a group like the Transnistrians in Moldova or some group or other in the Baltics. Maybe go back for more in Georgia or Armenia. See what happens.

[Lionator]

It was always going to end this way by the way. People had the wool pulled over their eyes for three years. Now you’re feeling the betrayal. It’s probably better in the long run that it happened like this than a long drawn affair. The anger in Ukraine and parts of Europe will last for decades. Europe and the west is mainly led by short sighted idiots that haven’t a clue. Zelensky will always be a hero but he’s finished.

[Lionator]

2 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I think Putin took inspiration from Hamlet three years ago - when he went charging into Ukraine and tried to take Kyiv, nobody was quite sure whether he was mad. Even his own regime looked worried.

 

Now of course, we know that he’s not. But he is using identifiable strategies. One of those strategies is to never take a backward step. Another is that if you’re in trouble you hang in there and wait for something to happen. Both have been working for him. The other strategy that we’ve seen from him over the years is to probe at something and see what happens. He’s done it in Georgia, he did it in Ukraine multiple times before the full-scale invasion. He’ll probably do similar in the future, arming a group like the Transnistrians in Moldova or some group or other in the Baltics. Maybe go back for more in Georgia or Armenia. See what happens.

Georgia has a Russian friendly government now though so why would he? Armenia is in the CSTO, and has enough issues with Turkey and Azerbaijan, if anything getting strong armed by Russia would be a blessing for them. To get to Moldova, he’d need to have a path. The only genuine risk I think is militarisation of the Arctic which would be devastating for so many reasons. 

[Dunge]

1 minute ago, Lionator said:

It was always going to end this way by the way. People had the wool pulled over their eyes for three years. Now you’re feeling the betrayal. It’s probably better in the long run that it happened like this than a long drawn affair. The anger in Ukraine and parts of Europe will last for decades. Europe and the west is mainly led by short sighted idiots that haven’t a clue. Zelensky will always be a hero but he’s finished.

I’m not sure. It would’ve been interesting to see what happened if and when Russia’s economic problems properly caught up with them. Doesn’t look like that’s on the cards any more, of course. In fact it looks like America could try to actively boost them to extricate them from China.

[Dunge]

2 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Georgia has a Russian friendly government now though so why would he? Armenia is in the CSTO, and has enough issues with Turkey and Azerbaijan, if anything getting strong armed by Russia would be a blessing for them. To get to Moldova, he’d need to have a path. The only genuine risk I think is militarisation of the Arctic which would be devastating for so many reasons. 

I was mostly throwing out possibilities, but Moldova would be the obvious next step and the path would be through a future subservient Ukraine. Although I imagine the remaining population of Ukraine would hate the Russians for generations to come and Russia could have trouble controlling them.

[WigstonWanderer]

5 hours ago, Mike Oxlong said:

Regarding the Article 5 commitment Trump can't be relied on and NATO is a dead duck 

 

Time to stop appeasing the appeaser 

I actually wonder whether Putin will use nuclear weapons in Ukraine now. US deterrent simply isn’t credible.

[Barrowblue]

2 hours ago, Md9 said:

Probably wouldn’t work they would try to blow his brains out so he would be lucky because he didn’t have any so would just go through his hollow head with no damage 

Ahh, the trump card