Cifuentes OUT

[LCFCJohn]

This feels like the season we were relegated under Rodgers. Really poor but managed to get a win or wins when mattered to keep himself in a job longer but ultimately to our downfall. 
 

[Claudio Fannieri]

1 minute ago, Tommy Fresh said:

If that's the case that's on him though, don't pick the players who aren't following instructions 

As I have said previously I ain’t sure Marti wants to pick some of them, I think once the transfer window closed he was told to reintegrate certain players and they had to be included in the match day squad to keep them in the shop window and to retain some negotiating position for the January window. 
 

the fact they weren’t necessarily in the starting XI at the start of the season backs that up. 

[Tommy Fresh]

Just now, Claudio Fannieri said:

As I have said previously I ain’t sure Marti wants to pick some of them, I think once the transfer window closed he was told to reintegrate certain players and they had to be included in the match day squad to keep them in the shop window and to retain some negotiating position for the January window. 
 

the fact they weren’t necessarily in the starting XI at the start of the season backs that up. 

Faes is back out the side now, so that doesn't particularly add up? Other than Winks who else do you think is forcing Cifuentes to not play a certain way

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Faes is back out the side now, so that doesn't particularly add up? Other than Winks who else do you think is forcing Cifuentes to not play a certain way

Maybe because a deal has been struck?

[Tommy Fresh]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

Maybe because a deal has been struck?

So why have him around the group at all then? 

[Sly]

He hasn’t helped himself really.

 

You could make a case that we should be bottom, if the table as I’m not sure we have deserved any of the wins we have acquired. 
 

The tactics are terrible, I’m not sure what we are even trying to do half the time.

 

Players are getting worse, not better.

 

Why haven’t we changed shape? 

 

 

[Tommy Fresh]

Just now, Sly said:

He hasn’t helped himself really.

 

You could make a case that we should be bottom, if the table as I’m not sure we have deserved any of the wins we have acquired. 
 

The tactics are terrible, I’m not sure what we are even trying to do half the time.

 

Players are getting worse, not better.

 

Why haven’t we changed shape? 

 

 

Because Harry Winks told him he can't 

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, Tommy Fresh said:

So why have him around the group at all then? 

Because he is still of enough quality to warrant a place on the bench? We don`t have many CBs of the required level?

[Claudio Fannieri]

3 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Faes is back out the side now, so that doesn't particularly add up? Other than Winks who else do you think is forcing Cifuentes to not play a certain way

Faes and Winks came in pretty much straight after the window closed. VK is another who came back into the match day squad, once available. 
 

Personally I wouldn’t have had Faes, Winks, Soumare, VK or Daka anywhere near the squad this season as I don’t think any of them are committed to the cause and cannot wait to get our, however I ain’t so sure our manager is afforded the same choices by his bosses. 

[Tommy Fresh]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

Because he is still of enough quality to warrant a place on the bench? We don`t have many CBs of the required level?

But we were on about players being reintergrated after the window shut to try and get money for them in January, and it wasn't down to Marti that players like that kept getting included in matchday squads, but if he has a move agreed it would clearly be down to Marti he's still involved and why would we give game time to a bloke leaving.

[AjcW]

Proactive club deals with this now

 

Reactive club deals with it after we lose to Stoke and Southampton. 
 

[Claudio Fannieri]

5 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Because Harry Winks told him he can't 

😂😂 nobody said or is saying that however if you think the manager has carte Blanche to pick who he wants and can freeze out all the top earners at the club, especially ours where there is a history of player power and players running to the owner, then you sir are an ostrich 😂😂

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

But we were on about players being reintergrated after the window shut to try and get money for them in January, and it wasn't down to Marti that players like that kept getting included in matchday squads, but if he has a move agreed it would clearly be down to Marti he's still involved and why would we give game time to a bloke leaving.

Yes, but with regards to Faes, we are not especially blessed with CB's, our academy seems to have few yet eligible for first team consideration, so feels like to have Faes has to be around the first XI (As the Norwich game demonstrated)

 

Do feel like I may have missed the point you were making though!

[Tommy Fresh]

3 minutes ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

Faes and Winks came in pretty much straight after the window closed. VK is another who came back into the match day squad, once available. 
 

Personally I wouldn’t have had Faes, Winks, Soumare, VK or Daka anywhere near the squad this season as I don’t think any of them are committed to the cause and cannot wait to get our, however I ain’t so sure our manager is afforded the same choices by his bosses. 

Soumare and Daka can agree contracts in January to leave for free in the summer so we aren't protecting their values by playing them, it's a World Cup year, we should have been telling Faes and Kristiansen get yourself permanent or loan moves away if you want a chance of playing in it because you aren't playing here.

 

I like Marti as a person but if you want a culture reset, I think how he's dealt with all these apparent bad eggs and being told what to do from above he's probably not the guy to build it.

 

With regards to Winks, you said the style of play changed after Fiorentina so Winks and whoever else were influencing the style despite not starting? Because we looked shite in August as well.

[Tommy Fresh]

Just now, Dahnsouff said:

Yes, but with regards to Faes, we are not especially blessed with CB's, our academy seems to have few yet eligible for first team consideration, so feels like to have Faes has to be around the first XI (As the Norwich game demonstrated)

 

Do feel like I may have missed the point you were making though!

I'd of been happy with Nelson and Vestergaard with Okoli on the bench, all he's done is block Nelson from playing

[Claudio Fannieri]

3 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

But we were on about players being reintergrated after the window shut to try and get money for them in January, and it wasn't down to Marti that players like that kept getting included in matchday squads, but if he has a move agreed it would clearly be down to Marti he's still involved and why would we give game time to a bloke leaving.

These are all big earners especially for this division, Faes, Winks, VK, Soumare, Daka even with relegation deductions will be earning over £200k per week. There aren’t many businesses or owners happy to see and allow £10m in salaries to effectively be sat at home. I think he has been told once the window shut, you have to utilise the squad and in particular these expensive assets. 
 

It’s not a good look to an owner or DoF to have that level of expenditure rotting in the stands. 

[Dahnsouff]

It was interesting that in the post match interview, he specifically called out that cultural resets take longer.

This could be protecting himself, but it is a strange thing to call out if it has no evidential reason behind it.

[Claudio Fannieri]

1 minute ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Soumare and Daka can agree contracts in January to leave for free in the summer so we aren't protecting their values by playing them, it's a World Cup year, we should have been telling Faes and Kristiansen get yourself permanent or loan moves away if you want a chance of playing in it because you aren't playing here.

 

I like Marti as a person but if you want a culture reset, I think how he's dealt with all these apparent bad eggs and being told what to do from above he's probably not the guy to build it.

 

With regards to Winks, you said the style of play changed after Fiorentina so Winks and whoever else were influencing the style despite not starting? Because we looked shite in August as well.

See my below post this isn’t just about protecting values of certain players but also the optics of having big wage earners sat on their arse doing nowt. 

[Claudio Fannieri]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

It was interesting that in the post match interview, he specifically called out that cultural resets take longer.

This could be protecting himself, but it is a strange thing to call out if it has no evidential reason behind it.

100% the culture is miles away from it where it was previously. 

[Tommy Fresh]

4 minutes ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

😂😂 nobody said or is saying that however if you think the manager has carte Blanche to pick who he wants and can freeze out all the top earners at the club, especially ours where there is a history of player power and players running to the owner, then you sir are an ostrich 😂😂

Ruud froze out Winks? Or was Ruud allowed to and Marti isn't?

See my other reply to you, Marti's a nice bloke but if you think he has it in him to rebuild/implement a culture reset, when he's having everything dictated to him by those above him then good for you.

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Tommy Fresh said:

I'd of been happy with Nelson and Vestergaard with Okoli on the bench, all he's done is block Nelson from playing

Ah, but he has started to flirt with 3 CB systems, in which case that is not enough. This coupled with the fact that Ricky finally seems to be the declining force we have long feared, thereby offering less stability at the back, means further assurance form the bench is sensible.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

8 minutes ago, AjcW said:

Proactive club deals with this now

 

Reactive club deals with it after we lose to Stoke and Southampton. 
 

And we'll do it in April and wonder why we miss out on the playoffs.

[Tommy Fresh]

2 minutes ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

See my below post this isn’t just about protecting values of certain players but also the optics of having big wage earners sat on their arse doing nowt. 

You literally said its about having a good position to negotiate from in January 

[Tommy Fresh]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

Ah, but he has started to flirt with 3 CB systems, in which case that is not enough. This coupled with the fact that Ricky finally seems to be the declining force we have long feared, thereby offering less stability at the back, means further assurance form the bench is sensible.

Now he is, it doesn't explain the previous 3 months does it 

[Claudio Fannieri]

Just now, Tommy Fresh said:

Ruud froze out Winks? Or was Ruud allowed to and Marti isn't?

See my other reply to you, Marti's a nice bloke but if you think he has it in him to rebuild/implement a culture reset, when he's having everything dictated to him by those above him then good for you.

Big difference when you are in the premier league and the revenues that brings you can do this however in the championship you cannot afford to have a player on £60k per week sat in the stands.
 

and let’s be honest it didn’t end well for Ruud did it and he was pretty much calling out the piss poor standards and culture from the outset and wasn’t supported in trying to change it just moved on.