Darren Motsi

[scinnell]

2 hours ago, honeybradger said:

I genuinely believe the lack of game time for young players last season was worse for the club than relegation itself.

 

It was the best opportunity to flush the rubbish and bring back some direction into the team and we wasted it. Now young players are looking at their prospects here and realising that older players will always be prioritised.

Whilst I do agree with the majority of what you have said, I don't think a 15 year old should have exposure in the first team and be fast tracked that quickly. Promoting him to the under 21's was the correct decision, however the club needs to lay out their intentions and give him a pathway to the first team alongside this - which I highly doubt they have. The tribunal fee system is not fit for purpose and needs changing here. 

 

I do agree that Page, Nelson (earlier in the season), Monga and players further in their development should have had more first team game time and who can blame them for wanting out as older players were prioritised.

[lcfc sheff]

Why does everyone believe everything they see on twitter 

[adam]

7 minutes ago, lcfc sheff said:

Why does everyone believe everything they see on twitter 

Not true then?

[dmayne7]

59 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Our club is horrible but you can't pin not playing a 15 year old kid in the first team as a creadible reason for backing up that statement, Page Aluko Monga and Thomas have all had a decent minutes this season. 

Forgive the tone, but is this serious?

 

Page was dropped straight after signing his new contract (actually don't think he was ready at that point). He then did come back and looked so much more ready in terms of the physicality and pace of the game, and actually stood out, yet he's then immediately turfed out. barely to be seen. Worse was that it was for a player who didn't want to be here. Awful management.

 

Aluko barely played. Lack of decent options at full back and those who had played were absolutely shocking all season long. Finally drafted in for probably the hardest game all season, gets sent off and then barely seen again. Awful management.

 

Monga plays in a position(s) where there has basically been a starting player and that's it. One of those was bailing us out for the first half of the season, then very poor after that so there's at least a reason why he wasn't played. The other one, has delivered what was categorically, the worst season from an attacking player I've ever seen yet was absolutely undroppable. Monga never got any run of games of even given the chance yet their numbers are pretty close despite him having a fraction of Mavididi's minutes. He's sat rotting on the bench time after time when we needed to change the game. His confidence and value has tanked as a result. Awful management.

 

Assuming you meant Silko, he's played probably more than he deserved so certainly can't accuse him of bot getting a chance 

 

All in all, the opportunity wasn't just there, it was absolutely necessary for the team that these guys were at least given a decent run at it, and they simply weren't. Not that I'm disagreeing re Motsi, but we have always been, and probably already will be, the absolute pits at giving young players a chance.

[Fear Of The Fox]

2 hours ago, Nalis said:

There needs to be a fairer system when it comes to bigger clubs poaching academy talent

It's called draft/salary cap but the corrupted Europe doesn't want to implement any good ideas from USA here. 

[dmayne7]

20 minutes ago, ceebeefox said:

You can’t play 3 or 4 15/16 year olds in the first team. You need proper rules that prohibit this robbery of talent, or at the very least get good fees. I may have missed it but have we had a fee off them for the other kid who has had no better a pathway than we would have given him?

 

Has had a much better pathway than we'd have given him. Just look at the amount of games we've given to teenagers over recent years (probably a lot longer), and compare it to how much he's been involved. Better than almost anyone we've had, Monga and Page aside. And that's whilst playing for PL champions and being surrounded by world class players so he's developing better. His career is in a much better place being a bit part player for Liverpool than doing the same for Leicester. If we'd shown that we can make these youngsters key members of the team, then that might not be the case but if things go wrong for him at Liverpool, he'll still get a decent move. Go wrong for him here and he's done.

[sdb]

I'd argue he'd be better staying here but we aren't exactly selling ourselves these days. The system is very broken though and it's a shame these youngsters can be snapped up so easily and cheaply 

[LCFCJohn]

14 minutes ago, ceebeefox said:

He’d play first team here long before he starts his bit part career with them. It’s about big wages, quick.

Not sure I agree. He’s at least 2 years off being given a sniff here. He won’t get Liverpool’s first team quickly but he could go there and get loan experience at a higher level than we are currently playing. Or even a loan to League 1 or 2 would be better for his development than playing kids football for that time with us. 
 

Normally I’d say it’s about money and agree with you. But anyone with any sense should sadly be looking to get away from us. We’re not a normal EFL club where many players benefit from getting that early experience/development.

[st albans fox]

Need to face it 

we’re not even a second rate club now 

who wants to develop here when you can be at a Liverpool where you’ll get first team exposure in the carrabao at 16/17 and in Europe at 17/18. 

 

I mean who would choose a much bigger wage and an away day in Milan when you could be in the Johnson’s paint at Grimsby ……

[Spanner73]

1 hour ago, ceebeefox said:

He’d play first team here long before he starts his bit part career with them. It’s about big wages, quick.

A Calm,hardworking,professional set up Versus A chaotic, ramshackled Mickey Mouse clown set up 

 

it’s not a different choice 

[em9999]

Hes not gonna say no to Liverpool let's not be silly they are still one of the biggest clubs in world football .

 

 

[ceebeefox]

19 minutes ago, em9999 said:

Hes not gonna say no to Liverpool let's not be silly they are still one of the biggest clubs in world football .

 

 

Yes, and because they have the pick o the world he probably won’t progress.

[Manwell Pablo]

1 hour ago, dmayne7 said:

Forgive the tone, but is this serious?

 

Page was dropped straight after signing his new contract (actually don't think he was ready at that point). He then did come back and looked so much more ready in terms of the physicality and pace of the game, and actually stood out, yet he's then immediately turfed out. barely to be seen. Worse was that it was for a player who didn't want to be here. Awful management.

 

Aluko barely played. Lack of decent options at full back and those who had played were absolutely shocking all season long. Finally drafted in for probably the hardest game all season, gets sent off and then barely seen again. Awful management.

 

Monga plays in a position(s) where there has basically been a starting player and that's it. One of those was bailing us out for the first half of the season, then very poor after that so there's at least a reason why he wasn't played. The other one, has delivered what was categorically, the worst season from an attacking player I've ever seen yet was absolutely undroppable. Monga never got any run of games of even given the chance yet their numbers are pretty close despite him having a fraction of Mavididi's minutes. He's sat rotting on the bench time after time when we needed to change the game. His confidence and value has tanked as a result. Awful management.

 

Assuming you meant Silko, he's played probably more than he deserved so certainly can't accuse him of bot getting a chance 

 

All in all, the opportunity wasn't just there, it was absolutely necessary for the team that these guys were at least given a decent run at it, and they simply weren't. Not that I'm disagreeing re Motsi, but we have always been, and probably already will be, the absolute pits at giving young players a chance.

Monga alone has 34 appearances he’s 16

Edited Sunday at 17:11 by Manwell Pablo

[DezFox]

2 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Our club is horrible but you can't pin not playing a 15 year old kid in the first team as a creadible reason for backing up that statement, Page Aluko Monga and Thomas have all had a decent minutes this season. 

I’m not suggesting for a second that a 15-year-old should be playing first-team football right now. The point is what he’ll be seeing around him every day.

He’ll see players like Nelson and Braybrooke having to wait years for opportunities, while Alves still hasn’t been given a genuine chance despite the state of the team. He’ll see Monga get dropped while Stephy started virtually every game despite being one of the poorest performers in the Championship. He’ll see Page looking promising, only to be replaced by a loanee who, after a decent start, struggled badly himself. He’ll see Aluko barely getting a look in while our full-backs consistently underperformed. He’ll see Evans still waiting for opportunities. And he’ll see all of this in a team that could barely score goals and was one of the worst sides in the division.

Even after relegation, when there was less to lose and a perfect opportunity to start building for the future, the approach didn’t really change.

My point isn’t about Motsi specifically. It’s about perception. Young players will look at what’s happening under multiple managers and ask themselves a simple question: where is the pathway? Because from the outside, there doesn’t appear to be a clear, consistent route from the academy to the first team.

If you’re a top young prospect and you don’t see players ahead of you getting opportunities even when the team is struggling badly, why would you believe your chances will be any different? At that point, you may as well go somewhere like Liverpool.

[DezFox]

2 hours ago, OnlyOneCity said:

Ah yes. That boring mantra from anti City fans. “You’re part of the problem” The club is in a desperate and dire situation and the removal of the owner and Rudkin is paramount to any improvement of the situation. Fans can still love the club they have done for however long or short a time, without supporting King Power. Yes, Top’s name may be over the door, but as far as I’m concerned, Leicester City is MY club and always will be. So stick your mantra and you get a grip.

I’m literally on a forum to talk about my club. I’m not sure you can suggest I don’t love the club. I can still admit it’s horrible. Not calling them out will make it worse.

 

I also wasn’t suggesting we play a 15 year old, my rationale is in another post.
 

[DezFox]

21 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

Monga alone has 34 appearances he’s 16

Unfortunately, then got dropped for potentially the worst player in the championship this season. 

[Manwell Pablo]

3 minutes ago, DezFox said:

Unfortunately, then got dropped for potentially the worst player in the championship this season. 

 

You can't play a 16 year old week in week out. It's just not feasible. Like I say he has 34 games for the club, I'm pretty sure Rooney was close to his 17th birthday when he made his debut and I'll be shocked if Walcott had 34 games (or anything close tbh) before his 17th birthday.......

 

Simple footballing logistics. The idea is to give them minutes at that age, not rely on them to drag us out of a relegation battle as it's not going to work, the famous quote "You can't win anything with kids" has been proven to be incorrect when referencing players in their early twenties, possible late teens if very talanted, thinking 16 17 year olds are going to get you out of a hole in the Championship just isn't happening. 

[DezFox]

3 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

You can't play a 16 year old week in week out. It's just not feasible. Like I say he has 34 games for the club, I'm pretty sure Rooney was close to his 17th birthday when he made his debut and I'll be shocked if Walcott had 34 games (or anything close tbh) before his 17th birthday.......

 

Simple footballing logistics. The idea is to give them minutes at that age, not rely on them to drag us out of a relegation battle as it's not going to work, the famous quote "You can't win anything with kids" has been proven to be incorrect when referencing players in their early twenties, possible late teens if very talanted, thinking 16 17 year olds are going to get you out of a hole in the Championship just isn't happening. 

Ok so we rely on our proven players week in, week out! How did that go? Week in, week out. I think I’ll leave it there. 

[Manwell Pablo]

3 hours ago, lfu said:

You can't say "all had decent minutes" when Page was relegated to the bench or not being in the squad in the second half of the season, Monga was perenially overlooked in favour of a Mavididi who stunk the house out and Aluko was barely given a chance despite Ricardo being completely past it and Hamza being useless. How many minutes did e.g. Mirsad Ali play in first team fixtures? Logan Briggs? Otchere and Hutchinson who were scoring for fun in the youth teams?

Nobody is saying a 15 year old needs to start every match, or even be in the squad for every match, but when we have such a talented crop of youngsters who aren't being shown the suitable path to the first team – when said first team players are performing so poorly – then it just makes it harder for us to attract and keep talented youth players.

 

Nah, Sorry.

 

Most lads around 16 17 are more than happy getting playing 34 and 18 games respectively. 

 

The club has a lot of problems but that's really not one of them.

 

If you think we are losing talent to Liverpool because of that it's just a backwards arguement. They wont get a kick at Liverpool unless they are out on loan. 

[Manwell Pablo]

1 minute ago, DezFox said:

Ok so we rely on our proven players week in, week out! How did that go? Week in, week out. I think I’ll leave it there. 

 

Strawman arguement that doesn't actually address the issue being raised. 

 

You can't rely on either, because the clubs so badly run.

 

 

[DezFox]

Just now, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Strawman arguement that doesn't actually address the issue being raised. 

 

You can't rely on either, because the clubs so badly run.

 

 

Great we agree, and unfortunately, so does Darren Motsi. 

[Manwell Pablo]

Just now, DezFox said:

Great we agree, and unfortunately, so does Darren Motsi. 

 

Darren Motsi isn't moving on due to a lack of first team opportunties, nor is he moving on as  see's himself getting first team football at Liverppol. That's the difference in the arguement.

 

He's moving on because a Champions League Club is in for him as opposed to a League One club who have been run like a car crash, very simple. If he wanted first team football, he wouldn't be going to Liverpool would he. 

[DezFox]

1 hour ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Darren Motsi isn't moving on due to a lack of first team opportunties, nor is he moving on as  see's himself getting first team football at Liverppol. That's the difference in the arguement.

 

He's moving on because a Champions League Club is in for him as opposed to a League One club who have been run like a car crash, very simple. If he wanted first team football, he wouldn't be going to Liverpool would he. 

The fact there is no clear, consistent pathway to regular first team football will not helped, and you know it, not sure why you are arguing. 

[dmayne7]

1 hour ago, Manwell Pablo said:

Monga alone has 34 appearances he’s 16

Yep. I've also won the ballon d'Or the same amount of times as Harry Kane so I guess we're equally as good at football? Obviously not hence the need for context

 

So when you put it against the context that I provided above and you randomly ignored, Monga played about 20% of the minutes he was available, for so a complete bit part player when he should have been starting a lot of games.

[Manwell Pablo]

19 minutes ago, dmayne7 said:

Yep. I've also won the ballon d'Or the same amount of times as Harry Kane so I guess we're equally as good at football? Obviously not hence the need for context

 

So when you put it against the context that I provided above and you randomly ignored, Monga played about 20% of the minutes he was available, for so a complete bit part player when he should have been starting a lot of games.

I’m sorry, you are comparing yourself and Harry Kane never winning the ballon d’or to Jeremy Monga playing 34 games before the age of 17, just so I’m clear. Just before my point needs further embellishment.  
 

Excuse the tone. 

Edited Sunday at 19:26 by Manwell Pablo