It's just beginning to sink in isn't it?

[Jon the Hat]

First off I'd start repairing the damage done by the current board and I'd find out why so many Leicester fans view the FT as a Club mouthpiece.

Secondly, I would then start to repair the failings of the FT and push for new members and new funds, because without the majority of fans you are nothing and the Club know it. Not sure why the FT can't see that just now?

Thirdly, I would start communicating and getting under the Clubs skin. It's okay to do that, it doesn't make you a trouble maker or disloyal.

Easy! Go on then. What's stopping you? There no point just talking about it.

[Jon the Hat]

But you have to ask why Andrew Taylor can bowl up with 250k and get a seat on the board

This is an easy one. He is an experience executive and Tim needs some help. And he's invested enough in the club to cover his wages for a year or two I expect.

I don't imagine anyone on the FT has this kind of experience. Apologies if they do.

[harpendenfox]

Feels to me that a large quantity of chill pills need to be distributed. We're no worse off than most parachute payment-less clubs in the championship. Our form since the end of January has been top sixish. It could be be better, but I for one am much more hopeful than I have been for two to three years.

In days gone by you wouldn't be surprised to see just one, two or three new arrivals every summer. It's only in recent years we've seen mass change. I wouldn't be surprised if one or two players attract interest this summer, but that's a good thing. People like Hume, Fryatt, Stearman, McCarthy would all be worth well over a million by now. I hope they don't go, but at least it shows we're developing a half decent squad. You can't have it both ways.

We also have some spirit now, and we have a manager who seems honest, by which I mean he calls it as he sees it, and I believe he'll put his hands up when we play badly rather than saying:

"that wasn't a Micky Adams team out there" or

" we were so unlucky today - they luckily scored two screaming goals, we unluckily missed 23 chances."

I think we need a left back, as I haven't seen Sheehan enough to make a judgement. I think we need a right winger/ wide player, leaving 2 from Hughes/ Williams /Weso to play in the middle. Yes Tiatto is touched by madness, but I'd try and keep him for one more year. I just feel that continuity is key. Thus I'd try and bring in just two players, which hopefully will work within our restricted finances.

It's desperately easy to criticise the management, but they have few sources of income, other than sponsorship, and I'd have though Alliance & Leicester is a good deal, and us, ie season tickets and on the day supporters. People talk about investment. Nonsense. Investors expect a return. We need people who adore the Club and are loaded ie able to give £ 5 million without noticing, and who don't mind not getting it back. There are few people like this.

I've felt disillusioned over the years. I bought shares when we floated out of love rather than as an investment. Slightly frustrated that my £500 investment was completely lost, but there you go. And I'm getting season tickets again for next season for me, my son and my Dad after taking this season off, pretty much out of boredom with the pathetic standard of football we were playing. I'm not really expecting us to make the play offs next season, but if we get a half decent start, you never know. I reckon most of the teams will be pretty similar in standard. The relegated Prem teams aren't bouncing back so easily these days, the promoted teams don't look too daunting. I hope Preston get promoted cos they might do a Reading next season if they don't.

Come early August we'll have as good a chance as anyone. Use these months to dream a little. Our time will come again.

[Monk]

harpendenfox - the most level headed post I've seen in this thread. Thank you. I agree with what you said - a couple of players is what we need and we need to keep the stability we have built recently.

[BartonFox]

Easy! Go on then. What's stopping you? There no point just talking about it.

Do you really need an answer to that?

[BartonFox]

But you have to ask why Andrew Taylor can bowl up with 250k and get a seat on the board

This is an easy one. He is an experience executive and Tim needs some help. And he's invested enough in the club to cover his wages for a year or two I expect.

I don't imagine anyone on the FT has this kind of experience. Apologies if they do.

So what? What experience does he have running a football Club? McDonalds is a fast food franchise, perhaps he is here to improve the catering for our matchday experience.

[Thracian]

Under Trust rules there is only one per club allowed. This became a hot topic when Supporters Direct aided the setting up of the Wimbledon Trust - they then became a major part of AFC Wimbledon. so when MK Dons applied to set up a Trust it was refused, as a Trust had already been set up for the original club.

If you want to change how the FT works you need to become a member, stand for election to tha board & influence the future direction.

Tell me I'm wrong but I imagine all the officers have strong quorums of established support. Even if they have to retire in rotation (and I'm not a member so I wouldn't know) I'd imagine any new candidates would also have their pals.

The point I'm making is that I cannot imagine it as a route which encourages new blood or new ideas. Someone might have ideas or skills to offer but unless you're one of the in-crowd, so to speak, I imagine it's like our first team really, a bit difficult to make any inroads or progress.

But that's a question really rather than a statement. Can you persuade me that my impressions are misguided?.

Nor is this a veiled dig at the FT. I think what they do seems to be well meant.

That said I didn't find it easy to even discusss joining as the representatives on hand when I called seemed more concerned with continuing what appeared to be nothing more than a social pow-wow but maybe we caught each other on the wrong day.

Ironically, the sort of people who probably should be helping to fly the FT flag are the last people to get elected because they are the sort of people who don't easily accept compromise and don't court popularity but instead ask awkward questions and make people feel uncomfortable.

[BartonFox]

Use these months to dream a little. Our time will come again.

That's the trouble, right there.

[harpendenfox]

That's the trouble, right there.

I disagree. My point is that for clubs like us, success is cyclical. We have always had low periods and high periods, and we always will. Even clubs like Bolton and Charlton, currently a fixture in the prem, will undoubtedly struggle when they have a change of management.

I'm not a dreamer, I'm a realist

[dynamite foxes]

Do you not think the figures were tounge-in-cheek? But you have to ask why Andrew Taylor can bowl up with 250k and get a seat on the board and the 'fans body' has to find double that, do you not think that sends a very strong message? Perhaps they don't won't your involvement. Lip service is all they pay to you.

I'm sorry, you yourself said either on here on on The Fox that there were budgets in place for not going up, clearly they weren't and you know full well troublelies ahead, but it's one of those 'things you can't tell your members', because the Club sensor you.

Ah here we go, once again you refuse to comment on the performance of the board and the CEO. Please for once can you explain to me and perhaps the rest on here who are interested, what benefit do the Club get from Tim Davies? Unless I am mistaken under his guidance off the field we have fallen from the Premiership to our worst season in 15 years and he is now scrabbling round with pathetic marketing gimmicks and new employees who, lets face it, if they were any good wouldn't be at this sinking ship.

Yes Mace went and it has taken how long to get another non football Executive in place to arrest the situation?

First off I'd start repairing the damage done by the current board and I'd find out why so many Leicester fans view the FT as a Club mouthpiece.

Secondly, I would then start to repair the failings of the FT and push for new members and new funds, because without the majority of fans you are nothing and the Club know it. Not sure why the FT can't see that just now?

Thirdly, I would start communicating and getting under the Clubs skin. It's okay to do that, it doesn't make you a trouble maker or disloyal.

Finally, can you let us know if the FT are happy with the performance of the Club's Board and Executives over the last 36 months or so?

I totally agree with you and said this a few months ago and got denounced for it. Mace was a very good commercial director and very good at dealing with the press. Davies should go he is not a football person and waited far too long to sack Levein when he should have gone earlier. Then, he goes round off the job to every Tom. Dick and Harry on earth. Barton fox...I salute you.

[BartonFox]

I disagree. My point is that for clubs like us, success is cyclical. We have always had low periods and high periods, and we always will. Even clubs like Bolton and Charlton, currently a fixture in the prem, will undoubtedly struggle when they have a change of management.

I'm not a dreamer, I'm a realist

But in those years we didn't have a million quid a year to fork out in intrest payments on Filbert Street, before we even start repaying our debt.

[Harpenden Fox]

But in those years we didn't have a million quid a year to fork out in intrest payments on Filbert Street, before we even start repaying our debt.

But surely those problems are the legacy of a set of circumstances around 2001, namely:

Taylor squandering the Heskey money on Scowcroft, Panicbuy, Benjy and Rowett

Signing admittedly good players like Izzet and Elliot on longer term contracts of around 30k per week

Building a new stadium, which most people felt we needed if we were to grow

Then just as we got our new stadium, we get relegated

Then the ITV Digital deal going pear shaped which meant Championship Clubs suddenly had far less money than they had justifiably budgeted for.

That's an appalling set of circumstances which has hurt the Club fiscally big time, and which may well take a long time to recover from. Frankly I don't know if the current executive management team is any good or not. What I'm pretty sure of, though, is that they've got one hell of a difficult job.

We're not in great shape, but as I said, I think there's more than a glimmer of hope right now, and i'm happy to back that. You can remind of that come early December if we're bottom three!

[BartonFox]

But surely those problems are the legacy of a set of circumstances around 2001, namely:

Taylor squandering the Heskey money on Scowcroft, Panicbuy, Benjy and Rowett

Signing admittedly good players like Izzet and Elliot on longer term contracts of around 30k per week

Building a new stadium, which most people felt we needed if we were to grow

Then just as we got our new stadium, we get relegated

Then the ITV Digital deal going pear shaped which meant Championship Clubs suddenly had far less money than they had justifiably budgeted for.

That's an appalling set of circumstances which has hurt the Club fiscally big time, and which may well take a long time to recover from. Frankly I don't know if the current executive management team is any good or not. What I'm pretty sure of, though, is that they've got one hell of a difficult job.

We're not in great shape, but as I said, I think there's more than a glimmer of hope right now, and i'm happy to back that. You can remind of that come early December if we're bottom three!

Forget all that Taylor spent, the problem is the Stadium we can't afford to pay for or the stadium that will be a dragging us down for years to come.

The Club have to demonstrate that they want the fans to be part of the Club and not just as a source of cash, until they do that people will remain suspect and choose to do something else on a Saturday afternoon.

Sadly I don't think the future is bright, we can't rely on 12 players to get us through next season and when injuries and Paddy McCarthey's suspensions build up we'll be scunnered.

[morris1234]

Am i wrong or are we not just leasing the stadium from the bank who are the actual owners of the stadium?OK so we are'nt better off doing this but we are only tied to a lease rather than 'servicing interest' on the debt

[Nationwider]

People talk about investment. Nonsense. Investors expect a return.

Halle-bloody-lujah.

The "I" word is used far too fast and loose for my liking. Everytime some gimp pipes up with the "there must be a rich Leicester-based businessman willing to invest £stupidmillionsin LCFC", I just want to vomit.

How the faq do you invest in a football club like LCFC?

Some quality debate from Barton, Jon, Harpendon, Mr T, Trusto et seq, btw.

[Foxes_Trust]

I totally agree with you and said this a few months ago and got denounced for it. Mace was a very good commercial director and very good at dealing with the press. Davies should go he is not a football person and waited far too long to sack Levein when he should have gone earlier. Then, he goes round off the job to every Tom. Dick and Harry on earth. Barton fox...I salute you.

Mace

- a good Commercial Director - you got to be joking ????

- good at dealing with the press - yes, no arguement, he handled the La Manga saga very well & we stated so at the time. That is his strength, but none of the other elements of the commercial role.

What is the obsession with being a 'football person'

Was Roman A, was Al Fayed at Fulham, was Martin George prior to joining LCFC, it's a total red herring.

Do you want ex players running the club, who are used to have high spending power in their own lives, so would be highly unlikely to steer a club through choppy financial waters.

[BartonFox]

Mace

- a good Commercial Director - you got to be joking ????

- good at dealing with the press - yes, no arguement, he handled the La Manga saga very well & we stated so at the time. That is his strength, but none of the other elements of the commercial role.

Yeah that made me laugh as well, he wasn't very good at all. We can agree on some things

However,

What is the obsession with being a 'football person'

Was Roman A, was Al Fayed at Fulham, was Martin George prior to joining LCFC, it's a total red herring.

Do you want ex players running the club, who are used to have high spending power in their own lives, so would be highly unlikely to steer a club through choppy financial waters.

Once again you demonstrate your lack of knowledge about football and what is going on. The people you mention are all owners they don't run the Club so your comparison is futile.

That said -

Abramovich doesn't run Chelsea, he has Peter Kenyon, Frank Aarnsen (sp) and David Barnard (all football people by the way) running the show. Abramovich signs the cheques for the players everything else is PK & DB.

Same with Al Fayed, he has people who understand the game looking after Fulham.

As for Martin George he presided over the Clubs renaissance so he is exempt from the sdlightest criticism.

Then you take our Board and Executives, lets look at the role of shame:

La Manga - refused to accept MA's resignation then refused to release the report in to the investigation, despite saying "there will be no whitewash!"

Pepsi Max Tourne - what a flop, although Mace did fall for that, but no one took responsibility for hiring him.

Micky Adams - refusing his resignation again.

Craig Levein - they really got that right didn't they. They got him in, I believe he was the best man for the job but instantly undermined him by bringing in their man to assist him, that doesn't work. Then when it wasn't working the delayed getting shot of him despite TD publicly stating he was happy with CL's long term plan. So how come those that selected him are still here?

One Year Kit Cycle - talk about shafting the very lifeblood of the Club and isn't that against recommendations from the OFT?

Ticket prices - fiasco and sheer arrogance.

Stewarding and the SAG - spineless and disorganised, they let them ride roughshod over the home support.

Groundshare - public statements then nothing materialises.

Fans Surveys - apparently everything is rosy amongst the support - yeah right.

Birchgate - you know that subject you aren't allowed to talk about but every single Leicester fan knows was true, but you stayed remarkably quiet on.

We're in it together - are we bollox, we're in it because of their ineptitude and now they need us big time.

No money reports - ooops the Mirror has started arses twitching at the Club and amongst our current creditors.

Worst season in 15 years - be interested to know how those that oversaw this season are still considered good enough to take this Club forward?

So once again, and I'll keep on asking, are the FT happy with the performance Board and CEO over the last 3 years? (to help you out I think your continual avoidance in answering suggests you think they are not good enough, but saying so publicly would mean you lose your privalages on Matchdays. No more free tea and sandwiches and that just wouldn't do now would it?)

[Guest]

Fans Surveys - apparently everything is rosy amongst the support - yeah right.

The latest City survey did not address the issues you raised, it was designed to gauge opinion on smoking, Henry, seating etc. The response was poor, to say the least.

There has been the FL's own survey, but this was conducted throughout the entire FL, and Leicester supporters did not exactly respond in great numbers. The apathy certainly tells more than the few who did respond to both of these surveys.

I think that apathy is the main problem here. Whenever there is an opportunity for our supporters to go along to voice whatever concerns they have, they never take it up. Whatever the reasons are, and they are numerous, I don't think that what goes on behind the scenes figures on many fans priorities.

[davieG]

The latest City survey did not address the issues you raised, it was designed to gauge opinion on smoking, Henry, seating etc. The response was poor, to say the least.

There has been the FL's own survey, but this was conducted throughout the entire FL, and Leicester supporters did not exactly respond in great numbers. The apathy certainly tells more than the few who did respond to both of these surveys.

I think that apathy is the main problem here. Whenever there is an opportunity for our supporters to go along to voice whatever concerns they have, they never take it up. Whatever the reasons are, and they are numerous, I don't think that what goes on behind the scenes figures on many fans priorities.

I don't doubt that apathy played a part in the poor response to the surveys, but LCFC should have know this to be the case and made better effort to ensure everyone was aware of and had easy access to it. I for one did not vote as the only way I came across access to vote was by down loading from the Internet and posting it. Not acceptable in my view, especially when I’m a season ticket holder and go to every game.

I then believe they showed their bias by having a second vote on the smoking issue, which was a forgone conclusion but not on the swapping of the kop which was more of an unkonwn quantity and likely to cause embarrassment and problems if the vote turned out to be a yes.

To my mind they are still totally amateurish, incompetent and possible afraid of ascertaining and then delivering what the fans want.

[Guest]

I don't doubt that apathy played a part in the poor response to the surveys, but LCFC should have know this to be the case and made better effort to ensure everyone was aware of and had easy access to it. I for one did not vote as the only way I came across access to vote was by down loading from the Internet and posting it. Not acceptable in my view, especially when I'm a season ticket holder and go to every game.

It was suggested that boxes could be placed on the concourse or the megastore and ticket office to post your quesionnaires into, I didn't see one anywhere.

The question of polling all STH's and members was asked as if a pre-paid envelope was included there would be a higher response rate, but we were told that the cost would be too much. There is an annual survey conducted by a third party, I don't see why questions like this can't be included, but it doesn't look likely to me.

I then believe they showed their bias by having a second vote on the smoking issue, which was a forgone conclusion but not on the swapping of the kop which was more of an unkonwn quantity and likely to cause embarrassment and problems if the vote turned out to be a yes.

To my mind they are still totally amateurish, incompetent and possible afraid of ascertaining and then delivering what the fans want.

I don't know why they put the smoking issue to the vote. I think all opinion polls show that people support bans regardless of whether it is at the football, in the pub or wherever. They seemed determined all along to have a vote on this issue, and it seemed to me that they didn't have the courage to make the decision themselves.

With regards to swapping the Kop, I think it was a huge relief the survey supported the status quo.

[harpendenfox]

La Manga - refused to accept MA's resignation then refused to release the report in to the investigation, despite saying "there will be no whitewash!"

Good point that one. Those days when our Club was the lead story on all the news programmes, and my little lad was asking me what rape is, were dreadful, and very little was said about it afterwards.

My only thought is that the player's lawyers insisted the Club said nothing for fear of reawakening things.

I remember thinking at the time that the thing that really annoyed me was that after a fairly gutless 0-0 draw with Wolves the squad was rewarded with a jolly in Spain, and what a disgrace that was.

I'm way off thread now I know, but we should have stayed up that season. We had the personnel, we had the opportunites. We just threw it away in injury time as it were

[Jon the Hat]

So what? What experience does he have running a football Club? McDonalds is a fast food franchise, perhaps he is here to improve the catering for our matchday experience.

Right. That must be it, the burgers are pretty crap. You might well be right, but the guys who own the club are mainly businessmen, so his experience clearly appeals to them.

[Jon the Hat]

Do you really need an answer to that?

Yes, as a genuine question, why do you feel you have the right to slag off the FT and make no attempt whatsoever to make a difference yourself? I'm not sayin you don't have that right, but I'm interested in why you would'nt get involved.

[Katy]

Yes, as a genuine question, why do you feel you have the right to slag off the FT and make no attempt whatsoever to make a difference yourself? I'm not sayin you don't have that right, but I'm interested in why you would'nt get involved.

The reason, to me, seems fairly clear. Its easy to slag someone off (although most of BF's points are quite valid) but to be slagged off yourself is a different kettle of fish. So while Barton is in his lofty position of slating the FT for being gutless (for want of a better word) he wouldnt want to attempt to do the job himself for fear of failure.

Am I right Barton or completely off target?

[Babylon]

I totally agree with you and said this a few months ago and got denounced for it. Mace was a very good commercial director and very good at dealing with the press. Davies should go he is not a football person and waited far too long to sack Levein when he should have gone earlier. Then, he goes round off the job to every Tom. Dick and Harry on earth. Barton fox...I salute you.

He got denounced about his comments on our search for a new manager, not on the state of the way the club is run. I believe at the time myself, rick, Katy, Louise or Lisa (i get them mixed up sometimes - sorry) And others had expressed our concerns at the way the club was run.