Milan Mandaric has targeted leicester!

[Gené and Tonic]

Agreed, if you look at the prices other players have gone for at other clubs, you'd be mad to suggest O'Grady is worth 750k+

[Simon]

I simply don't see how you are able to place values on players in this way Thracian. We could not, realistically, expect to sell those players for those amounts at this moment in time. And in any case that goes completely against your argument of building a young and hungry team. Have you changed your mind on this then?

Short of an obscenely large bid coming in for one of these players we need to keep them, even Stearman. Although Kelly's signings have been less than convincing, if there is one area he knows about its the academy. He knows how to deal with younger players and he will help Stearman through whatever problems he's been having.

As for Mandaric, I would want to know about the structure of any potential deal before I decided whether or not to support it. Personally I would prefer someone linked to the club to take over, but at the moment that doesn't appear likely. We CANNOT have another season like the last one. Let alone two. Our finances could not cope. We need some investment- and quickly.

And Thrac- Hume is younger than Kisnorbo.

Kisnorbo (£2m plus extras), Fryatt (£2m plus extras), Stearman (£1m plus extras) and McCarthy (£1.25m). Total £6.25m +. A substantial portion of monies owed for the ground. In any two were sold, other than two centre-backs together, they are just about replaceable. That doesn't count any older players, like Hume.

[Thracian]

Whether or not this rumour turns out to be true the reality is that we need investment urgently.

Like it or lump it modern 21st century football requires serious amounts of money to bring lasting success which for us would mean sustained premiership survival and some good cup runs.

so-called "local" clubs are fine in essence but largely languish in the lower leagues.

As things stand can the present incumbants come up with sufficient funds to turn the club around. if not then an outside investor is the only option or we shall remain at best a mid table championship side with perhaps the odd lucky foray into the play offs.

we have a huge debt (and despite thracians thoughts) very few saleable assets certainly none worth anything like the £4 million coventry have just received.

And before anyone spouts on about Watford yes they did well last season but how long will they survive in the premiership and I seem to remember their best days were when they were backed by a certain Elton John.

And to those who say we have managed ok for the last 100 years then it is time to take a reality check. the most successful sides all over europe are cash rich or backed by wealth consortiums/individuals. the only exception is barcelona who have literally thousands of paying members. things have changed.

The £3m we got for Connolly's not so far off the £4m Coventry got so talking our player values down is not really justified but no matter...

Didn't we have some "investment" with both that money and all the parachute payments? We soon spent it.

And tell you what?. If every team gets a sugar daddy there'll still be only one that tops the League and only, say, the top six in each division will have a successful season. Which is why the top clubs forever seek more protection, more guarantees, more of a closed shop. Because the fall from such financial heights can be terminal.

Some people think that throwing money at something answers all the problems. Unfortunately it doesn't as people who remember Peter Taylor might tell you.

And the more money that's pumped into different football clubs the more that fact will become apparent. I much prefer prudence when it comes to money and wisdom when it comes to signing footballers.

But sooner or later, I suppose, the majority of fans will doubtless get their way. If not Mandaric then some other speculator will take the Leicester reins.

And then we'll see whether the modern trend is for better or worse than building steadily. Or whether it's a case of Spend, Spend Vic Nicholson all over again!

[Ultra]

We CANNOT have another season like the last one. Let alone two. Our finances could not cope. We need some investment- and quickly.

Agreed - but not at any price...

I'm not into flogging this club to any old pimp or parasite who happens to flash a chequebook at us.

[Thracian]

If you read any other posts than your own (and replies to them) you'd know the disagreements Thracian and I have had on all kinds of topics. This is probably the first time he and I have been in agreement on anything. So the suggestion that he and I might be the same person is highly amusing!

I was just about to write something similar. But it makes a pleasant change.

Man Utd and Arsenal owe over a BILLION in debt between them and yet they're in a far better position than we are, so that's not really a reliable yardstick, is it?

Have you ever heard of Robert Maxwell? Or Bill Archer? Or Rupert Lowe?

All three were "investors" who ended up running their clubs into the ground. We have been through much to let the same thing happen to us.

[Ultra]

The £3m we got for Connolly's not so far off the £4m Coventry got so talking our player values down is not really justified but no matter...

Didn't we have some "investment" with both that money and all the parachute payments? We soon spent it.

And tell you what?. If every team gets a sugar daddy there'll still be only one that tops the League and only, say, the top six in each division will have a successful season. Which is why the top clubs forever seek more protection, more guarantees, more of a closed shop. Because the fall from such financial heights can be terminal.

Some people think that throwing money at something answers all the problems. Unfortunately it doesn't as people who remember Peter Taylor might tell you.

And the more money that's pumped into different football clubs the more that fact will become apparent. I much prefer prudence when it comes to money and wisdom when it comes to signing footballers.

But sooner or later, I suppose, the majority of fans will doubtless get their way. If not Mandaric then some other speculator will take the Leicester reins.

And then we'll see whether the modern trend is for better or worse than building steadily. Or whether it's a case of Spend, Spend Spend Viv Nicholson all over again!

How very true.

It remains to be seen though whether the less enlightened elements among us do actually constitute a majority.

I remember a certain local fanzine editor, whose website attracts every piece of lobotomised lowlife within a 100-mile radius, assuring us that the majority of fans would welcome a name change to Fosse. Even now, four seasons later, I doubt whether the scars on his behind have healed!

[Steven]

Most of this would surely be sorted out before he was allowed to take control of the club, with assurances and possibly even contracts signed to that effect? If we are careful I see nothing against it... although this is mostly theoretical at the moment.

Has that percentage changed?

[nhfox]

About as simple as falling for a 419 scam. Pompey are in a better position than when he took them over, that's true. But

1) It's clear Mandaric is in it for the money

2) Pompey have only just survived in the Premiership - one of the biggest flukes of recent years - and they must be mightily relieved they're not back down with us (or with Sunderland). They're scarcely an established premiership side.

3) One other reason Pompey stayed up was Mandaric selling out to someone else who did put more money in.

So, to greet Mandaric with open arms, we've got to believe:

1) He's going to be as lucky as he was with Portsmouth

2) If success doesn't come, and he pulls out, he won't want all his loans back

3) If some success did come, the dodgy Eurotrash that he sells the club to won't be a total shark.

We've got more to lose than gain here, I feel.

Spot on

[leicester1884]

At this moment we have four young saleable assets:

Kisnorbo (£2m plus extras), Fryatt (£2m plus extras), Stearman (£1m plus extras) and McCarthy (£1.25m). Total £6.25m +. A substantial portion of monies owed for the ground. In any two were sold, other than two centre-backs together, they are just about replaceable. That doesn't count any older players, like Hume.

In 12 months we might have the following saleable young assets:

Logan (£750,000 plus extras), Wesolowski (£1.5m plus extras), Porter (£1.5m plus extras), O'Grady £750,000 plus extras), Dodds (£1.5m plus extras), Sheehan (£500,000 plus extras, if he gets in). Total £6.5m.

In 24 months (saleable young assets):

Gradel (£1.5m plus extras), Chambers (£2.5m plus extras), plus andy King and Eric Odihiambo depending on their progress. Total £4m plus.

valuations a 'tad' on the high side me thinks

[dandannieldanok]

I don't see why people are saying that a possible buy-out can be a bad thing. If a buy-out occurs money will be avaliable or if it doesn't occur, we are still skint. Simple, why is it bad?

[Thracian]

I simply don't see how you are able to place values on players in this way Thracian. We could not, realistically, expect to sell those players for those amounts at this moment in time. And in any case that goes completely against your argument of building a young and hungry team. Have you changed your mind on this then?

Short of an obscenely large bid coming in for one of these players we need to keep them, even Stearman. Although Kelly's signings have been less than convincing, if there is one area he knows about its the academy. He knows how to deal with younger players and he will help Stearman through whatever problems he's been having.

As for Mandaric, I would want to know about the structure of any potential deal before I decided whether or not to support it. Personally I would prefer someone linked to the club to take over, but at the moment that doesn't appear likely. We CANNOT have another season like the last one. Let alone two. Our finances could not cope. We need some investment- and quickly.

And Thrac- Hume is younger than Kisnorbo.

No I've not changed my mind about building a young and hungry side. I always said we would need to sell as we did it and have constantly encouraged Kelly to bring young players through where there are weaknesses in the team so that sufficient "graduates" were available to do that.

Our board are constantly slagged off but it would be interesting to compare the value of our players after the sale of connolly with the value of our players today.

I think the players are much more valuable and that value is likely to go up not to diminish as in Mickey Adams' day.

I quite agree with your last sentence though.

Consequently we have to sell at least one player (Stearman is easiest replaced) and we have to keep developing others and making sure we persevere with a broadly attacking strategy which will give us the best chance of winning and of getting some fans and some atmosphere back.

PS: Sorry about Hume. Put him in the sales assets at £1m. And as for my values on this year's assets I'd love TD to reveal what WAS offered over the summer. That might settle some of the argument at a stroke.

Any honest idea Barton or Foxes Trust? What does subsstantial mean? I can take the truth - am I close or not?

[Ultra]

PS: Sorry about Hume. Put him in the sales assets at £1m. And as for my values on this year's assets I'd love TD to reveal what WAS offered over the summer. That might settle some of the argument at a stroke.

Any honest idea Barton or Foxes Trust? What does subsstantial mean? I can take the truth - am I close or not?

I can't speak for the Foxes Trust but two of my sources with close connections to the club suggest that a fee of £2m was on the table.

Whether that was upfront or dependent on conditions (appearances, caps etc) was not clear.

[Thracian]

It seems I can rest at least one case then.

[Swedging]

I don't see why people are saying that a possible buy-out can be a bad thing. If a buy-out occurs money will be avaliable or if it doesn't occur, we are still skint. Simple, why is it bad?

Can I come to your house and sell you something, please?

Look, if some 'entrepreneurial' type comes to City with the idea of making money out of us, money might be made available in the form of loans. If success doesn't follow on the pitch - and it doesn't always - and the spiv wants their money back out, we are not just skint but looking at administration for a final time.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Who cares? We've got Louis Dodds.

I'd probably support it. It's been increasingly worrying in the last few weeks when we've been releasing players week after week only to be told there's still no money left to do anything with. People who talk about investors running clubs into the ground have to realise that there's not actually much further down we could go in terms of financial status or league position before we are run out of business. Mandaric coming in and throwing a couple of million quid at improving our squad would increase attendances enormously and we could start looking at becoming a viable top-half Championship club rather than reducing the wage bill year upon year in the vague hope that one or two of our young players might attract large transfer fees. On that note, I have to say it's obscene to talk about millions of pounds for players like Dodds, Gradel and particularly bloody Chambers even in terms of potential. Even Wesolowski is worth f**k all until he proves over a season that he could probably do a job in the Premiership. I know it's only supposed potential but this is the future of our football club we are talking about. When it comes down to the crunch, the notion that players who have never played for the first team might be worth £1.5million in three years' time is going to be completely and utterly inconsequential.

On another note... say these players all turn out to be amazing and they fetch £10million between them over the next five years. With a supposed £30m debt (I say supposed because that's the figure Barton is saying and no-one seems to be arguing with it, I have no idea personally), wouldn't it be better to say "yeah okay, we're in a mess, help us out Milan". If these players are halfway as good as you think they are or will be then wouldn't it be better to take the investment and keep them?!?!

[dandannieldanok]

Can I come to your house and sell you something, please?

Look, if some 'entrepreneurial' type comes to City with the idea of making money out of us, money might be made available in the form of loans. If success doesn't follow on the pitch - and it doesn't always - and the spiv wants their money back out, we are not just skint but looking at administration for a final time.

Mandaric has been bought out for over £30 mil in which he intends to buy a championship club. If it is Leicester all debts will be wiped out and City will actually be able to boast a transfer kitty. Unless Peter Taylor rejoins transfer money is brilliant for us. Investors only make money if the team is good on the pitch. Mandaric made money out of Pompey because they reached the prem and stayed there, I would'nt be complaining if the same happened to us.

[Ultra]

Mandaric coming in and throwing a couple of million quid at improving our squad would increase attendances enormously

Where's your evidence to support that view.

Birmingham spent millions on McSheffrey last week and yet their crowd was DOWN by 5000 yesterday!

[Fez of Mahrez]

Where's your evidence to support that view.

Birmingham spent millions on McSheffrey last week and yet their crowd was DOWN by 5000 yesterday!

Evidence for f**k's sake, I haven't got evidence because it hasn't happened has it? I'm convinced it would lead to increased attendances though. I wouldn't equate it with the McSheffrey transfer in a million years. You're asking me to compare a relegated club buying another player for a similar fee to one they signed earlier in the summer to a new, ambitious owner looking to pump millions into a debt-ridden club that's barely been in a worse state? When was the last time we spent even ONE million pounds on a player? And the time before that? (No, seriously, I'd be interested to know and I can't think of anyone since Taylor was here?!)

Leicester fans are more aware than most of what Mandaric could bring to this club because of our battle with Pompey that year and personally I think the gate for our first game with him in charge would be around 26,000 at least.

Look what you've made me write. Is he even coming or what?!

[Thracian]

I put down an honest assessment Fez based on what I've seen of the players and one assessment which has already been mocked would seem to have been spot on.

Of course it all depends on opportunities, injuries, level of development etc but I've deliberately left out some players who might also come through because best scenario rarely occurs.

The valuations might turn out to be generous but, as a guy who's rather unkindly portrayed by some as a grumbling pessimist, they also reflect my complete faith in these youngsters in contrast to Barton (which worries me a bit because I respect his opinion as much as many others who sometimes disagree with me).

Indeed I think Leicester are unusually well off for young players right now and that is a huge credit not only to Rob Kelly but to people like Academy director Jon Rudkin, Steve Beaglehome and the rest of the coaching staff.

Did anyone come through the Academy in Mickey Adams' day?

Well we've had five emerge so far and there's another one or two in the wings. That is a major step forward by our club.

My valuations simply reflect my belief that the success of the first five will simply act as a spur to the others and non of them will disappear as nearly men or one-day wonders as has been the case in the past.

And as they come through they'll enjoy the added bonus of having played together for years and of therefore being familiar with each other's game. You cannot buy that sort of unity and team spirit.

People from outside can cog into it but to have the basis of a genuinely decent young home grown team is a rare luxury. I have seen it in several sporting environments...once there's a group successful the knock-on effect can last for years.

The hard part is getting the first few.

[Bert]

Everyone is going to think that their solution etc is the correct way so what's the point of arguing??

Ffs this hasn't even happened yet and some of the stuff in this thread is shocking. If it happens I'll judge what the situation is then, but until then and IF it does happen, let's just support the boys!

[Fez of Mahrez]

"And as they come through they'll enjoy the added bonus of having played together for years and of therefore being familiar with each other's game. You cannot buy that sort of unity and team spirit.

People from outside can cog into it but to have the basis of a genuinely decent young home grown team is a rare luxury. I have seen it in several sporting environments...once there's a group successful the knock-on effect can last for years."

Unless they are sold prematurely because we have absolutely no money, in contrast to us being able to keep them because we have a solid financial base?

Also, my problem isn't with you rating players like Porter or even Dodds - it's the idea that more than two or three of them will play regularly and/or command large transfer fees. I guess you're asking the current crop to be similar to Forest's Jenas/Prutton/Dawson/Reid/Williams/Harewood era and they showed that it is possible. However, it didn't do them much good as a poorly-run club bringing through some fantastic young players did it?

[Thracian]

Everyone is going to think that their solution etc is the correct way so what's the point of arguing??

Ffs this hasn't even happened yet and some of the stuff in this thread is shocking. If it happens I'll judge what the situation is then, but until then and IF it does happen, let's just support the boys!

I bit of speculation never hurts anyone Bertfox - an entire betting industry is based on that - and as for support, people clearly have different views on what that is. C'est la vie!

[Swedging]

If it is Leicester all debts will be wiped out and City will actually be able to boast a transfer kitty.

Not wiped out. Just different debts - owing Mandaric instead. Which is a bigger gamble.

Investors only make money if the team is good on the pitch. Mandaric made money out of Pompey because they reached the prem and stayed there, I would'nt be complaining if the same happened to us.

Mandaric was extremely lucky every season in the prem and did a fair bit to mess up Pompey's chances when they were there. And it's probably more accurate to view Mandaric as a speculator rather than an investor - even more so when looking at Leicester rather than Pompey as his vehicle. At least with Pompey there was the pretence he was interested in them as a club. And do you really want to pin everything on Mandaric's luck holding forever? Most successful speculators win out on average with a good few losses taking the gloss off the big wins.

[Ultra]

Evidence for f**k's sake, I haven't got evidence because it hasn't happened has it? I'm convinced it would lead to increased attendances though.

It's a theory which has yet to be proved or disproved. As such it's open to dispute. I don't believe most FOXES are as gullible as you make out.

Leicester fans are more aware than most of what Mandaric could bring to this club because of our battle with Pompey that year?

And would also be massively suspicious, as we would be of ANY club owner who switches allegiances. Such behaviour is worse than gloryhunting, in fact it's virtually criminal.

and personally I think the gate for our first game with him in charge would be around 26,000 at least.

You're having a laugh. Only a top international PLAYER could boost the gate by 7000, and would be way out of our range right now, even with Bill Gates in charge!

[Fez of Mahrez]

I bit of speculation never hurts anyone Bertfox - an entire betting industry is based on that - and as for support, people clearly have different views on what that is. C'est la vie!

Agreed

If you can't have a good argument about stuff like this, what's the point of even having a messageboard? Unless we all descend into I RELLY LIKE MATTY FREYATT HE IS A WICKED PLAYERR, WE SHUD KEEP HIM UNLESS SUM1 OFFERS £6MILLON.