Veil teacher 'should be sacked'?

[Daggers]

Can you please remove the veil from your smiley when communicating on the forum, thank you

[Jon the Hat]

What I find strange about this one is that the woman did not wear a Veil to the job interview. Seems to be a bit of a misrepresentation to me.

Personally I think she should be required to adhere to a dress code appropriate to the school she works in, and that employers / Governors should have the righ to define what that code is.

If they believe it is unacceptable to have children taught by a woman who is fully veiled then that should be their right, their duty is to the Children and not to the teacher in question.

Personally as someone who has studied child development and psychology, although not in any great depth, what would concern me is whether through the lack of a "total" communicative environment, involving facial expression, a key part of the communication process, children might in fact be at a disadvantage either in the learning process, or in their understanding of societal norms.

[Dr The Singh]

What I find strange about this one is that the woman did not wear a Veil to the job interview. Seems to be a bit of a misrepresentation to me.

Personally I think she should be required to adhere to a dress code appropriate to the school she works in, and that employers / Governors should have the righ to define what that code is.

If they believe it is unacceptable to have children taught by a woman who is fully veiled then that should be their right, their duty is to the Children and not to the teacher in question.

Personally as someone who has studied child development and psychology, although not in any great depth, what would concern me is whether through the lack of a "total" communicative environment, involving facial expression, a key part of the communication process, children might in fact be at a disadvantage either in the learning process, or in their understanding of societal norms.

It's an issue of common sense, if a veil stops a person from doing there job, then that person must remove it, or stand to lose there job.

The lady in question stated that she is ok to be without the viel infront of children but must where the veil if men are in presence. If the school cannot accomodate this using 'common sense' then the lady will have to adhere to the schools principals!!!

There is the aspect of 'freedom' and 'tolerance' but the school kids come first, there education is the main piont, and I think the media and politicains have missed the point and made the veil a public issue!!

I also read that a muslim school in Leicester require all girls to where 'muslim' headgear, which i find totally bizare, religious garments should not be used as uniforms, IMO!!!

[gatesheadfox]

I also read that a muslim school in Leicester require all girls to where 'muslim' headgear, which i find totally bizare, religious garments should not be used as uniforms, IMO!!!

i'm not too much in the know about this sort of thing but I was informed (by a muslim) that they are supposed to cover their hair but the face covering veil is an optional choice...anyone know the beef on this?

[Dr The Singh]

i'm not too much in the know about this sort of thing but I was informed (by a muslim) that they are supposed to cover their hair but the face covering veil is an optional choice...anyone know the beef on this?

I'm not too sure myself, I have read alot of literature regearding the topic, and most stipulate that they must be covered to hide there 'dignity' from men, other then husband, father, kids....to what extent of covering is the issue!!

Most scholars agree that the body must be covered, is bosoms(dignity) must not be seen, hence the long black dress is an option!! Most scholars say the covering of the face is optional!!!

[Ultra]

These things don't all happen by accident. People are being manipulated by others with vested interests.

Those "others" being mainly Rupert Murdoch and his ilk..

[cisono]

Can you please remove the veil from your smiley when communicating on the forum, thank you

No way will I do that. It is part of my cyber-identity/religion!

Oh, almost forgot...

[l444ry]

This is Great Britain. We have our own heritage, traditions and way of living. Many Muslims have integrated into society in the past by respecting this. But ever since Iraq there has been an ever increasing number of these Islamic religionists who want to force their culture onto us. It is about time this whole subject of integration was debated in an adult fashion. For instance, how can it be right that English has become the second language in so many British schools today?

[Monk]

OK so take me at school - I have a pretty bad hearing loss and partially lip read. Is it right that I could be disadvantaged by someone elses religous beliefs?

I dont care what the teacher wears or what religion/skin colour/origin is. All I care is that I can see them and I can hear them.

For me it would be no different for a white teacher to teach with her hand in front of her mouth. Its poor communication and thats why I dont belieive it should be allowed in a school.

[Dr The Singh]

This is Great Britain. We have our own heritage, traditions and way of living. Many Muslims have integrated into society in the past by respecting this. But ever since Iraq there has been an ever increasing number of these Islamic religionists who want to force their culture onto us. It is about time this whole subject of integration was debated in an adult fashion. For instance, how can it be right that English has become the second language in so many British schools today?

Integration is a big problem within the muslim community, many have left themselves isolated and hence have created ghetto's, for example, I have never heard of sikh or hindu ghettos, yet within the Asian community there are many muslim ghetto's, yet they have had similar opportunities as all Asians.

They need to bring themselves back into the mainstream, religion and culture does have place within society but it shouldn't the first priority, and do all and end all of life!! I was reading the other day, that something like over 40% of all under 8's in an area in Bradford can't speak english and with fiurther investigation found that kids and parents didn't see it as an issue!!! This had a profound effect on the youth later in life as lack of education lead to mass unemployment within the area, the thing was though, that most of the 16 years plus did not want to leave the area as they felt safe and at home and blamed the government for the lack of opportunities they have!!!

[Thracian]

Integration is a big problem within the muslim community, many have left themselves isolated and hence have created ghetto's, for example, I have never heard of sikh or hindu ghettos, yet within the Asian community there are many muslim ghetto's, yet they have had similar opportunities as all Asians.

They need to bring themselves back into the mainstream, religion and culture does have place within society but it shouldn't the first priority, and do all and end all of life!! I was reading the other day, that something like over 40% of all under 8's in an area in Bradford can't speak english and with fiurther investigation found that kids and parents didn't see it as an issue!!! This had a profound effect on the youth later in life as lack of education lead to mass unemployment within the area, the thing was though, that most of the 16 years plus did not want to leave the area as they felt safe and at home and blamed the government for the lack of opportunities they have!!!

Nothing new in that. It's always someone else's fault. Always someone else who has to compromise or change their stance.

[Monk]

Nothing new in that. It's always someone else's fault. Always someone else who has to compromise or change their stance.

So is it fair that if I was to be taught by this teacher, that I would be disadvantaged?

[Head Honcho]

Surely the wearing of any kind of garment that hides your identity poses a risk to children and should be banned from schools, in fact it should be banned in any place where security is an issue.

They really are impractical to todays modern society and although compromises have to be made, for places like Schools, Airports and Banks there can be no compromise.

[Daggers]

So is it fair that if I was to be taught by this teacher, that I would be disadvantaged?

How?

[Monk]

I have a hearing loss as a decent number of school kids do, and back then I often had to rely on lip reading. From a personal point of view that stops her effectively teaching me - and puts me in a position where people would have to class me as 'special needs' as couldnt hear in class.

This is aside from the social side of it. If people live in this country they are free to worship what you want but they should subscribe to some kind of british values and I believe that the veil hampers social interaction with non-muslims.

[Daggers]

...they should subscribe to some kind of british values and I believe that the veil hampers social interaction with non-muslims.

If a handful of us on FT have trouble agreeing on anything, from where is this consensus of "British Values" going to come from?

I have never had a problem communicating with veiled muslims. On the other hand, I do have a problem communicating with people chewing gum, smoking or wearing hoodies and scarves.

The veil is just a symbol that people are using to justify their Islamophobia...it's an agenda driven thing without any substance.

[Milky]

people can wear what they want. i couldn't give a shit. free world, do what you want, i'll just get on with my own life.

[Monk]

Understand what you are saying, and I also believe in multi culturalism. Its fine that other cultures influence what we stand for as a nation and I do not have a problem with muslims, and I'm not scared of them or what we've seen on the news over the past 5 years. I personally think a lot of the islamophobia has been caused by complete bollocks reporting and media spin more than a genuine issue.

That said, I stand by the veils comment. For me, I could not talk to someone with their face covered in a relaxed and amicable manner, more so, that they dont want to communicate with me. I do not agree with isolation of communities. This aside I do believe it hampers their ability to do the job, speaking from personal experience.

[l444ry]

If a handful of us on FT have trouble agreeing on anything, from where is this consensus of "British Values" going to come from?

I have never had a problem communicating with veiled muslims. On the other hand, I do have a problem communicating with people chewing gum, smoking or wearing hoodies and scarves.

The veil is just a symbol that people are using to justify their Islamophobia...it's an agenda driven thing without any substance.

Very true Bob, but all these subjects are openly discussed without being accused of Gumphobia, Smokingphobia or Hoodiephobia. For many years anyone disliking the political correctness and stupid multiculturalism (whatever that is!!) being imposed on us have had to tolerate being called racist or suffering from Islamophobia. Thank heavens the debate is moving on........

[Milky]

why have problems with anyone? just get on with living your life and loving your family.

[Daggers]

With a partially deaf son, I know how much he has relied on 1-2-1 instruction and the reliance upon watching mouth shapes, so I appreciate where you're coming from Monk.

...but, there's no indication that this TA was assisting with hearing impaired children.

I don't doubt for a minute that she is playing the role of victim for a reason either...but this isn't and should not be "news", and it's a shame that it is.

The sooner our press get back to those nasty dogs the better

[Monk]

I often think that the press are the anus of this country's problems. Whilst I dont agree with it - it should have been dealt with at a local level and maybe the local paper, not SKY... BREEEEEEEAKING NEEEEEEEEWS. BBC BRRREEEEEAKING NEEEEEEWS. And so on. You would have though mr murdoch himself had a child in that very class!

[Daggers]

why have problems with anyone? just get on with living your life and loving your family.

Hippie!

[Ultra]

If a handful of us on FT have trouble agreeing on anything, from where is this consensus of "British Values" going to come from?

I have never had a problem communicating with veiled muslims. On the other hand, I do have a problem communicating with people chewing gum, smoking or wearing hoodies and scarves.

The veil is just a symbol that people are using to justify their Islamophobia...it's an agenda driven thing without any substance.

Hear hear!

Jack Straw and others in the government are jumping on a bandwagon.

[Milky]

Hippie!

no, i just know what is most important in life.

not a fan of long hair myself, and i have to be clean all the time, plus i've never taken drugs....etcc..