Another part to the RK urban myth

[Ric Flair]

Link

Albeit in a friendly.

I thought Johnson was an excellent signing at the time, and as Babylon said, so did a lot of other people on this forum. He was an integral part of the West Brom side that won promotion on 2 occasions under Megson. However, he was played in a 3 man midfield more often than not - in a 4-4-2 set up with Hughes, his lack of pace and fitness has been exposed.

I'm not saying I wasn't one of the fans who were quite pleased with Johnson's arrival, but had I researched Johnson's recent exploits of the past season or so then it would perhaps have become clear that he's not the player he once was. WBA fans came on other forums and were not very upset that Johnson had left, sighting 'his legs have gone' and had I heard about this before hand i'd have hedged my bets with regard to my opinion on him signing for us.

[Babylon]

You've already listed the players that have cost us money!!! But that's more money than a lot of clubs in this league have spent. Plus add in the money that has been wasted, £250,000+ for Gerrbrand, £200,000 for Peter Gilbert, £50,000 for Mark de Vries (although he did score 10 goals so that's not too bad).

Hardly Kellys fault is it?

I know I listed them, the way you were talking was that there was more. Which is why I asked which ones!!! The point I was making was that our squad cost about £2m, more than half the teams in this division have spent that on their team in the last 24 months.

Southampton, palace, birmingham + others have spent that on one player let alone the whole squad.

[The People's Hero]

Sometimes a beer can look nice and still taste sour.

I don't think anyone expects a manager not to make mistakes with his signings, selections or tactics. What's important is how quickly he recognises those mistakes and how quickly and effectively he reacts to put them right.

Indeed.

The unwillingness to adapt and improve cost Levein his job.

It would be sad if RK was to continue down that same track.

[Ric Flair]

Hardly Kellys fault is it?

I know I listed them, the way you were talking was that there was more. Which is why I asked which ones!!! The point I was making was that our squad cost about £2m, more than half the teams in this division have spent that on their team in the last 24 months.

Southampton, palace, birmingham + others have spent that on one player let alone the whole squad.

It's not Kelly's fault about players that we've bought who were crap before he took over, but I still think with the players we've got that we aren't far off having a team good enough for the top 6. I know you say other clubs have spent more and would say the same, but what makes teams successful in this league is who wants it the most and the ability to grind out results and take their chances. We haven't got a manager who's able to get the best out of our players though, just look at Williams, Fryatt, etc.

I'm more than willing to give Kelly a chance but I need to see signs that we're heading in the right direction. My main gripe is his complete reluctance to doing something about the style of football we play. If he isn't telling the players to hoof the ball, then he should make damn sure they don't do it again. 18 games on and not a single sign of him doing anything about it.

It's stuff like that, that make me wonder whether he's got what it takes. We're possibly entering a new era, where we have the money that other big clubs in this league have and perhaps a new manager to mirror this might be the right option?

Who know's, i'll back MM's judgement.

[Babylon]

We're possibly entering a new era, where we have the money that other big clubs in this league have and perhaps a new manager to mirror this might be the right option?

Which is a different argument all together, one i'm undecided on.

Who know's, i'll back MM's judgement.

Don't think we have much choice!!

[Thracian]

Couldn't agree more, problem is Williams and Wesolowski who should be the starting centre mid pair have been injured all season long (not always at the same time).

We are short on options because of the injuries we have had in the middle.

Oh and kids don't count!!!!!

Wesolowski's still a kid and I find it amusing you say kids don't count seeing you're obviosly quite happy to "count" adult people like Johnson, Stearman, Hughes and Maybury who have hardly shone any lights for us in that position.

Johnson hasn't played a single good game for us.

Stearman is a full-back and only an emergency midfielder.

Maybury ditto but with less attacking flair.

And Hughes would be great if we played sideways instead of up and down.

You would presumably from that statement dismiss someone like Andy King who does score goals, does get in the box, can pass, can support or even Levi who is probably better in midfield than on the wing. Why are you so certain these people are not better than what we've tried?

Cos on many occasions it would have been difficult for them to have been worse.

[Scow]

Just to address Barton's original point, I think the perception of Kelly is based on reputation within football.

He was involved as a youth coach at Blackburn and Watford - highly rated in both roles.

MON wanted him at the club in his time here.

Paul Robinson (Now at WBA) and Skills have recently praised his coaching abilities. Now I appreciate the point that players are not likely to bad mouth their manager/coach in the press, but they're not likely to come out and willingly praise them either, unless they're actually good at what they do.

Of course you can't prove Kelly is a good coach, but conversely, you can't prove he's poor either.

You can point to performances and fitness, and it is a valid point, but there is a difference between coaching and managing.

Brian Kidd, Peter Taylor and Steve McLaren all have a reputation of being good coaches, but they can't/couldn't convert that in to managing.

Maybe Kelly falls in to that category.

[l444ry]

It's not Kelly's fault about players that we've bought who were crap before he took over, but I still think with the players we've got that we aren't far off having a team good enough for the top 6. I know you say other clubs have spent more and would say the same, but what makes teams successful in this league is who wants it the most and the ability to grind out results and take their chances. We haven't got a manager who's able to get the best out of our players though, just look at Williams, Fryatt, etc.

I'm more than willing to give Kelly a chance but I need to see signs that we're heading in the right direction. My main gripe is his complete reluctance to doing something about the style of football we play. If he isn't telling the players to hoof the ball, then he should make damn sure they don't do it again. 18 games on and not a single sign of him doing anything about it.

It's stuff like that, that make me wonder whether he's got what it takes. We're possibly entering a new era, where we have the money that other big clubs in this league have and perhaps a new manager to mirror this might be the right option?

Who know's, i'll back MM's judgement.

I think you've inadvertently stumbled on the real difference between the differing views in this thread Ric, at least as far as I am concerned. In my view this squad is a million miles away from being good enough for automatic promotion and you only have to be above the bottom three to be in contention for the top six.

Take our so-called better players. For example, which clubs did Fryatt and Hume sign from? Hardly teams that were threatening the Premiership. When the transfer window opens there won't be many knocking on the door for this lot, unless they are in a lower division. This lot are simply not good enough.

I suggest that Rob Kelly is firefighting with this squad and if he were to ever do a Thracian, we'd probably be relegated by Christmas. One by one, all the youngsters have demonstably shown they're not ready....yet. If Dodds is so good why isn't he at on loan to a league club and not a Conference team.

I never touted Rob Kelly for this job but Alex Ferguson would probably be classed as a failure by some if he had to work with the tools Kelly has.

[Joe.]

I think you've inadvertently stumbled on the real difference between the differing views in this thread Ric, at least as far as I am concerned. In my view this squad is a million miles away from being good enough for automatic promotion and you only have to be above the bottom three to be in contention for the top six.

Take our so-called better players. For example, which clubs did Fryatt and Hume sign from? Hardly teams that were threatening the Premiership. When the transfer window opens there won't be many knocking on the door for this lot, unless they are in a lower division. This lot are simply not good enough.

I suggest that Rob Kelly is firefighting with this squad and if he were to ever do a Thracian, we'd probably be relegated by Christmas. One by one, all the youngsters have demonstably shown they're not ready....yet. If Dodds is so good why isn't he at on loan to a league club and not a Conference team.

I never touted Rob Kelly for this job but Alex Ferguson would probably be classed as a failure by some if he had to work with the tools Kelly has.

Very well said there. If the youth were ready they'd be in the team, not on loan at teams such as Northwich victoria.

At the time I was pleased that Kelly got the job full time, because of the good work he did in getting us to a superb finish to the end of the season. Now I realise that the decision was rash, and that Kelly really isn't ready for a managerial job at a club like ours at the moment. His transfers have been pretty woeful and I seem to be always moaning at his strange team selections.

I'd give it til January and if we're still not 12th or above or something like that, then it should be time for a change, and we should bring in a well experienced manager who knows what it's all about.

I just don't trust Rob with Milan's millions and I am weary of which players will be coming in. Now we have all this potential cash, we should be looking at established decent Championship players, or fringe Premiership players to improve the squad, not lower league players.

[Babylon]

Wesolowski's still a kid and I find it amusing you say kids don't count seeing you're obviosly quite happy to "count" adult people like Johnson, Stearman, Hughes and Maybury who have hardly shone any lights for us in that position.

Johnson hasn't played a single good game for us.

Stearman is a full-back and only an emergency midfielder.

Maybury ditto but with less attacking flair.

And Hughes would be great if we played sideways instead of up and down.

You would presumably from that statement dismiss someone like Andy King who does score goals, does get in the box, can pass, can support or even Levi who is probably better in midfield than on the wing. Why are you so certain these people are not better than what we've tried?

Cos on many occasions it would have been difficult for them to have been worse.

You really need to get in the real world and realise that youth team football is a mile away from first team football. Wesolowski is a kid, but a kid that has been playing above his age level since he was about 10 years old

Of course the players mentioned are options, they are in our squad are they not. Throwing in 16 year olds is an option, but the last one any manager in the bloody world would take. Except you of course.

On the flip side why are you so sure they are better than what we have tried. The management has seen them play against the more experienced first teamers... you have not!!!!

[BartonFox]

Take a look at the situation at city. no money, limited quality and quantity of players.

More to the point

No one has presented any evedence that RK is a bad manager or coach

Are you serious? Have you not read this thread from the start, there is bucket loads of evidence and not one piece (other than Ric's lame one, plus he was told wrong ) that he is any good, the whole point of the topic!!!

[Thracian]

You really need to get in the real world and realise that youth team football is a mile away from first team football. Wesolowski is a kid, but a kid that has been playing above his age level since he was about 10 years old

Of course the players mentioned are options, they are in our squad are they not. Throwing in 16 year olds is an option, but the last one any manager in the bloody world would take. Except you of course.

On the flip side why are you so sure they are better than what we have tried. The management has seen them play against the more experienced first teamers... you have not!!!!

King is 18 and Porter 19 if memory serves. But I don't judge people on age I try to judge them on ability. It might be you who needs to get real.

I remember everyone ridiculing Sven for taking Walcott to the World Cup - to the point where he was probably put off using him. Why? For no other reason but his age.

And when did our established players get us? Nowhere. Walcott's looked pretty good to me ever since and the goal he made last night was simply breathtaking.

I don't know if you've ever seen Kingy play. But I've seen him in the under 18's and the reserves on many, many occasions and there's been plenty of first teamers in various reserves matches.

He's six feet tall and bigger than a good many in our side not to mention his years and years of experience.

I'd take him anytime over everyone but Weso and Williams in central midfield - and certainly be giving him the added experience you suggest he needs from the bench.

[Thracian]

I think you've inadvertently stumbled on the real difference between the differing views in this thread Ric, at least as far as I am concerned. In my view this squad is a million miles away from being good enough for automatic promotion and you only have to be above the bottom three to be in contention for the top six.

Take our so-called better players. For example, which clubs did Fryatt and Hume sign from? Hardly teams that were threatening the Premiership. When the transfer window opens there won't be many knocking on the door for this lot, unless they are in a lower division. This lot are simply not good enough.

I suggest that Rob Kelly is firefighting with this squad and if he were to ever do a Thracian, we'd probably be relegated by Christmas. One by one, all the youngsters have demonstably shown they're not ready....yet. If Dodds is so good why isn't he at on loan to a league club and not a Conference team.

I never touted Rob Kelly for this job but Alex Ferguson would probably be classed as a failure by some if he had to work with the tools Kelly has.

I suppose I have to accept you really believe all that.

It was not the Academy players who actually put us in the relegation xone and would more than likely have been relegated but for the parts plkayed by three young players in particular, Wesolowski, Kisnorbo and Fryatt.

Your argument about the youngster "one by one" proving they are not good enough is rubbish. Are you saying the youngsters can't have bad games but the senior players can have lots?

Because of our young Academy players: Logan, Porter, Stearman, Wesolowski and Chris O'Grady I'd say two of the five would be in the top quarter of player ratings figures averaged out over games played - Logan and Porter.

Stearman would probably be in the middle somewhere, suffering somewhat from a lousy start to the season and later being played out of position but still managing to have one goal more to his name than our star striker and to be third in the overall scoring list. Then there were some pretty vital goal-line clearances I recall which also saved us points.

Wesolowski and O'Grady have basically been injured or reduced to bit parts so are hardly in any position to be judged in any meaningful manner.

Meanwhile in aiming your arrows at these obviously still learning youngsters who have actually done rather well for us, you conveniently ignore the consistently shit performances of a host of seniors I could name but won't because no-one is in any doubt who they are and some have been well documented in the players we'd get rid of first question raised by Ric..

[l444ry]

I suppose I have to accept you really believe all that.

It was not the Academy players who actually put us in the relegation xone and would more than likely have been relegated but for the parts plkayed by three young players in particular, Wesolowski, Kisnorbo and Fryatt.

Your argument about the youngster "one by one" proving they are not good enough is rubbish. Are you saying the youngsters can't have bad games but the senior players can have lots?

Because of our young Academy players: Logan, Porter, Stearman, Wesolowski and Chris O'Grady I'd say two of the five would be in the top quarter of player ratings figures averaged out over games played - Logan and Porter.

Stearman would probably be in the middle somewhere, suffering somewhat from a lousy start to the season and later being played out of position but still managing to have one goal more to his name than our star striker and to be third in the overall scoring list. Then there were some pretty vital goal-line clearances I recall which also saved us points.

Wesolowski and O'Grady have basically been injured or reduced to bit parts so are hardly in any position to be judged in any meaningful manner.

Meanwhile in aiming your arrows at these obviously still learning youngsters who have actually done rather well for us, you conveniently ignore the consistently shit performances of a host of seniors I could name but won't because no-one is in any doubt who they are and some have been well documented in the players we'd get rid of first question raised by Ric..

Thracian, as usual you have just confirmed what I have always thought....you just take what someone says, regurgitate to suit yourself and then spout out something completely irrelevant.

Firstly, I said the youngsters are not good enough....YET. I'm not "slinging arrows" at the kids, just stating what is obvious. And what your silly player ratings have to do with the price of chips I don't know!!! It's also very interesting that you now use Kisnorbo and Fryatt in your "young players" list.

Secondly, I do not "conveniently ignore shit performances of the seniors" either. I have said on several occasions, for what it's worth, that this is the worst Leicester City squad I've ever had the misfortune to witness.... unlike you, Thracian, who seems to think that if Rob Kelly took your advice we would be mysteriously transformed into some lesser version of Kevin Keegan's Newcastle.

[Hullfox]

At the risk of being called an RK apologist again, I just think that people are so entrenched in the politics of opposition it's unbelievable.

Not one of us is in the club and amongst the squad on a day to day basis but you'd think that training was some sort of fan fest they way insider knowledge comes out on man management squad strengths etc.

Look at it in the cold light of day.

We are in the shit financially. No ifs, no buts. Nobody but nobody can argue with that. *waits for the sound of distant keyboards arguing the fact*

When you are in the shit financially, to survive you live off what you've got and when you do buy stuff, it's quite often not really what you would like to be buying in an ideal world. (Andy Johnson = Lidl Baked Beans)

Footballing wise, we should be ringing debt consolidation companies up as advertised on daytime TV to make life rosy again.

We are a poor man's team and as such we are going to play poor man's football. Sending the kids out to work might make a difference short term but they won't deliver as much in the long term as they would if they were allowed to continue their education.

And no Thracian before you start pointing the finger, I don't think that I'm a better supporter than you, maybe just more of a realist.

[Manwell Pablo]

I think you've inadvertently stumbled on the real difference between the differing views in this thread Ric, at least as far as I am concerned. In my view this squad is a million miles away from being good enough for automatic promotion and you only have to be above the bottom three to be in contention for the top six.

Take our so-called better players. For example, which clubs did Fryatt and Hume sign from? Hardly teams that were threatening the Premiership. When the transfer window opens there won't be many knocking on the door for this lot, unless they are in a lower division. This lot are simply not good enough.

I suggest that Rob Kelly is firefighting with this squad and if he were to ever do a Thracian, we'd probably be relegated by Christmas. One by one, all the youngsters have demonstably shown they're not ready....yet. If Dodds is so good why isn't he at on loan to a league club and not a Conference team.

I never touted Rob Kelly for this job but Alex Ferguson would probably be classed as a failure by some if he had to work with the tools Kelly has.

What a stupid point, they were both products of their respective clubs youth system, Hume was bought for 750,000 he's young and improving the fact that he came from Tranmere is inconsequential. If we ever pay all the add ones for Fryatt (which probabley include all kinds of daft things such as England caps seeing Walsall thought he was the next Gary Linekar) your probably looking at around a million, they turned down a offer from Forest which was just under that. Both are highly rated upcoming players it doesn't matter where they started their careers. Look at where both clubs are and you will the impact losing these players has had.

In any case we're weren't going to be signing succesfull players from succesfull clubs were we? Thats what teams with money do, when a team in our financial situation need a new player they need to look for succesfull players at clubs that need the kind of money we can offer them, and players that are out of sorts that we could turn round.

We do have some good players at this club, unfortunately we also have some injury prone, inconsistent, and awful players at this club as well.

Last two paragraphs are spot on.

[lookwhaticando]

At the risk of being called an RK apologist again, I just think that people are so entrenched in the politics of opposition it's unbelievable.

A little criticism of things from time to time is healthy, but as you say, opposition to just about everything it setting in. :pinch:

There doesn't seem to be much middle ground here. 'cept for Hullfox who seems to have neatly occupied it all by himself.

[Thracian]

At the risk of being called an RK apologist again, I just think that people are so entrenched in the politics of opposition it's unbelievable.

Not one of us is in the club and amongst the squad on a day to day basis but you'd think that training was some sort of fan fest they way insider knowledge comes out on man management squad strengths etc.

Look at it in the cold light of day.

We are in the shit financially. No ifs, no buts. Nobody but nobody can argue with that. *waits for the sound of distant keyboards arguing the fact*

When you are in the shit financially, to survive you live off what you've got and when you do buy stuff, it's quite often not really what you would like to be buying in an ideal world. (Andy Johnson = Lidl Baked Beans)

Footballing wise, we should be ringing debt consolidation companies up as advertised on daytime TV to make life rosy again.

We are a poor man's team and as such we are going to play poor man's football. Sending the kids out to work might make a difference short term but they won't deliver as much in the long term as they would if they were allowed to continue their education.

And no Thracian before you start pointing the finger, I don't think that I'm a better supporter than you, maybe just more of a realist.

Well I actually think you're a bloody great fan for what it's worth.

I just wish you and a few others would look into the brighter light.

As it happens MM will quite possibly gallop in on his white charger and buy us a team and that is a good job.

Because we were never going to buiild one of our own - not because it wasn't there, or a good part of it, but because we never had the courage or the vision to abandon the attitudes which have condemned us to the mire for so many years now.

The attitude that's summarised by the concept that it's better not to be caught on the break than to commit to going forward.

This isn't about youth players. Youth players would rarely have been mentioned if they were'n't simply better than some of the poor apologists for footballers that we have at the club right now.

I'd have taken an Earnshaw or a Koumas anytime, or a good few of the other fairly exciting footballers mentioned in these threads.

But I am pleased, through it all, that none of you dourists have ever pursuaded me to compromise by one word or one thought my essential belief that good football is about attack and entertainment. About excitement and about achieving things you never believed possible.

About goals like the one Walcott fashioned really.

It matters not one iota now because names like Andy King and Levi Porter doubtless soon be forgotten in the money-go-round that will become Leicester City.

But I had faith in them the same as I've faith in Weso and Joe Mattock. Far more faith than I'd ever have in so many of the people who wear our shirt today.

PS: I said you're a great fan and I meant it. But just as I believe in attack and in youth so you are an RK apologist. However you paint it that's the truth and it's nothing to be ashamed of. I truly admire anyone who defends what they believe in. Nor have I anything at all against RK as a person. I just find it so painful to be associated with his football and what his team presents as his philosphy.

[l444ry]

What a stupid point, they were both products of their respective clubs youth system, Hume was bought for 750,000 he's young and improving the fact that he came from Tranmere is inconsequential. If we ever pay all the add ones for Fryatt (which probabley include all kinds of daft things such as England caps seeing Walsall thought he was the next Gary Linekar) your probably looking at around a million, they turned down a offer from Forest which was just under that. Both are highly rated upcoming players it doesn't matter where they started their careers. Look at where both clubs are and you will the impact losing these players has had.

In any case we're weren't going to be signing succesfull players from succesfull clubs were we? Thats what teams with money do, when a team in our financial situation need a new player they need to look for succesfull players at clubs that need the kind of money we can offer them, and players that are out of sorts that we could turn round.

We do have some good players at this club, unfortunately we also have some injury prone, inconsistent, and awful players at this club as well.

Last two paragraphs are spot on.

I appreciate what you say Manwell but my (stupid) point was that if they were so highly regarded then how come they hadn't been snapped up earlier by a Premier League outfit or promotion seeking Championship side. Who knows.....We might even have overpaid for them? My (stupid) point, in context of my reply to Thracian, is that they are playing at their level......The Championship.

[Manwell Pablo]

I appreciate what you say Manwell but my (stupid) point was that if they were so highly regarded then how come they hadn't been snapped up earlier by a Premier League outfit or promotion seeking Championship side. Who knows.....We might even have overpaid for them? My (stupid) point, in context of my reply to Thracian, is that they are playing at their level......The Championship.

They aren't developed enough or proven at a level high enough to be take at by a Premier league or top Championship time. The reasons behind the add ons would be to make sure we don't pay over the odds for them.

You rarely see a Premier league team go in for players playing below Championship level and those that do normally regret it as the jump up is so drastic, even if they are good enough to play there they aren't used to it and therefore struggle.

Although you are quite right they are playing at their current level.

[Thracian]

Thracian, as usual you have just confirmed what I have always thought....you just take what someone says, regurgitate to suit yourself and then spout out something completely irrelevant.

Firstly, I said the youngsters are not good enough....YET. I'm not "slinging arrows" at the kids, just stating what is obvious. And what your silly player ratings have to do with the price of chips I don't know!!! It's also very interesting that you now use Kisnorbo and Fryatt in your "young players" list.

Secondly, I do not "conveniently ignore shit performances of the seniors" either. I have said on several occasions, for what it's worth, that this is the worst Leicester City squad I've ever had the misfortune to witness.... unlike you, Thracian, who seems to think that if Rob Kelly took your advice we would be mysteriously transformed into some lesser version of Kevin Keegan's Newcastle.

And why would I not use Fryatt and Kisnorbo as "young" players. I have consistently advocated "young and hungry" not just Academy young.

As for the fringe players I've mentioned they might not be ready for someone like Reading's team of last season but they're sure as hell better than people getting selected in our team right now.

How some of them ever get picked I've no idea. As for putting slants on things I think you've cornered the market with your last sentence because Keegan and Newcastle were simply mentioned as a concept, as you well know.

There is no way anything to do with Leicester can be mentioned in the same breath football wise as anythiung to do with Newcastle under Keegan these last few years - and yet people defend those responsible.

Attacking as a concept is in the head not in the wallet. Any idiot can attack when they've got Chelsea's millions.

[l444ry]

And why would I not use Fryatt and Kisnorbo as "young" players. I have consistently advocated "young and hungry" not just Academy young.

As for the fringe players I've mentioned they might not be ready for someone like Reading's team of last season but they're sure as hell better than people getting selected in our team right now.

How some of them ever get picked I've no idea. As for putting slants on things I think you've cornered the market with your last sentence because Keegan and Newcastle were simply mentioned as a concept, as you well know.

There is no way anything to do with Leicester can be mentioned in the same breath football wise as anythiung to do with Newcastle under Keegan these last few years - and yet people defend those responsible.

Attacking as a concept is in the head not in the wallet. Any idiot can attack when they've got Chelsea's millions.

Your line of argument is similar to a grasshopper on heat Thracian. I always read your posts with interest even though I find much of the content hard to agree with. However, I cannot recall you ever using Fryatt and Kisnorbo before as examples of the youth players you have been advocating. Earlier in this thread you lamented that Dodds had been given no opportunities in the first team whereas Fryatt has had many and failed. Also, at one point, did you not also complain that Kisnorbo can't pass the ball very well?

[Thracian]

Your line of argument is similar to a grasshopper on heat Thracian. I always read your posts with interest even though I find much of the content hard to agree with. However, I cannot recall you ever using Fryatt and Kisnorbo before as examples of the youth players you have been advocating. Earlier in this thread you lamented that Dodds had been given no opportunities in the first team whereas Fryatt has had many and failed. Also, at one point, did you not also complain that Kisnorbo can't pass the ball very well?

The fact that I rated Fryatt quite highly last season and referred to him as a young player on several occasions does not blind me to his apparent loss of fitness and form this season.

The opportunities for Fryatt have been many and for Dodds zero and it IS time Dodds had a chance. Whether that be from the bench or from the start I don't really mind. I would think his initial appearance would be from the bench but I do think Fryatt's playing badly enough right now to justify Dodds starting.

And yes, I did indeed say Kisnorbo can't pass well - can there be any dispute? But I also said, on various occasions, that his commitment and consistency as a defender allowed me to make an exception about his passing - at centre-back only, certainbly not in midfield. The same applied to McCarthy and I said that two non-passers was plenty in any side.

No inconsistencies whatsoever.

[Jonbluefox9]

Well I actually think you're a bloody great fan for what it's worth.

I just wish you and a few others would look into the brighter light.

As it happens MM will quite possibly gallop in on his white charger and buy us a team and that is a good job.

Because we were never going to buiild one of our own - not because it wasn't there, or a good part of it, but because we never had the courage or the vision to abandon the attitudes which have condemned us to the mire for so many years now.

The attitude that's summarised by the concept that it's better not to be caught on the break than to commit to going forward.

This isn't about youth players. Youth players would rarely have been mentioned if they were'n't simply better than some of the poor apologists for footballers that we have at the club right now.

I'd have taken an Earnshaw or a Koumas anytime, or a good few of the other fairly exciting footballers mentioned in these threads.

But I am pleased, through it all, that none of you dourists have ever pursuaded me to compromise by one word or one thought my essential belief that good football is about attack and entertainment. About excitement and about achieving things you never believed possible.

About goals like the one Walcott fashioned really.

It matters not one iota now because names like Andy King and Levi Porter doubtless soon be forgotten in the money-go-round that will become Leicester City.

But I had faith in them the same as I've faith in Weso and Joe Mattock. Far more faith than I'd ever have in so many of the people who wear our shirt today.

PS: I said you're a great fan and I meant it. But just as I believe in attack and in youth so you are an RK apologist. However you paint it that's the truth and it's nothing to be ashamed of. I truly admire anyone who defends what they believe in. Nor have I anything at all against RK as a person. I just find it so painful to be associated with his football and what his team presents as his philosphy.

I don't think anyone on here has ever tried to persuade you to compromise your belief that good football is about attack and entertainment but if it makes you happy knowing that no-one has managed to alter your belief then fair enough. The reason I come on here is just to give my opinion. I don't try to get people to agree with what I'm saying and I don't come on here to look to be persuaded as to what I should think. I don't think many people, if any at all, come on here to form their beliefs on the way football should be played either.

Of course people would like to see entertaining football but it's not always possible. If you haven't got the players to play that way then there's no point trying to. We have to play to our strengths and imo, offencively we're not strong no matter who we play in midfield or up front. I've seen the Academy play a number of times in the past and this season too and I honestly believe that the usual midfield four and front two would struggle to make an impact on our team. I've seen an improvement in Tejan-Sie over the last year but not enough for me to suggest he could boss a game at first team level and I can see why you rate Andy King, and I think he could do a job as a substitute, but for me he doesn't stand out enough at Academy level to make me think he would be able to make the step up to the starting line-up at this stage. you could argue that both of these players could do a better job than Andy Johnson in the middle for example. I'd find it hard to disagree (it'd be hard to find someone who'd do a worse job than AJ has done so far) but it doesn't mean they should be just played because they're better than useless. They should progress at their own rate until they deserve their place in the first team due to how good they are, not how poor their seniors are. I don't think either are at that stage yet.

This is just my opinion but I think trying to play the football you believe in, whether it be using promising youngsters, "chosen men" or even a mixture of the two, would leave us in a similar position to the one we're in now because we just don't have the players to play that kind of game in this division.

[Thracian]

I don't think anyone on here has ever tried to persuade you to compromise your belief that good football is about attack and entertainment but if it makes you happy knowing that no-one has managed to alter your belief then fair enough. The reason I come on here is just to give my opinion. I don't try to get people to agree with what I'm saying and I don't come on here to look to be persuaded as to what I should think. I don't think many people, if any at all, come on here to form their beliefs on the way football should be played either.

Of course people would like to see entertaining football but it's not always possible. If you haven't got the players to play that way then there's no point trying to. We have to play to our strengths and imo, offencively we're not strong no matter who we play in midfield or up front. I've seen the Academy play a number of times in the past and this season too and I honestly believe that the usual midfield four and front two would struggle to make an impact on our team. I've seen an improvement in Tejan-Sie over the last year but not enough for me to suggest he could boss a game at first team level and I can see why you rate Andy King, and I think he could do a job as a substitute, but for me he doesn't stand out enough at Academy level to make me think he would be able to make the step up to the starting line-up at this stage. you could argue that both of these players could do a better job than Andy Johnson in the middle for example. I'd find it hard to disagree (it'd be hard to find someone who'd do a worse job than AJ has done so far) but it doesn't mean they should be just played because they're better than useless. They should progress at their own rate until they deserve their place in the first team due to how good they are, not how poor their seniors are. I don't think either are at that stage yet.

This is just my opinion but I think trying to play the football you believe in, whether it be using promising youngsters, "chosen men" or even a mixture of the two, would leave us in a similar position to the one we're in now because we just don't have the players to play that kind of game in this division.

I've always respected what you've said because I know you watch these people but the fact even you believe we don't have enough attackers shows what I'm up against.

You're right about King, no doubt, but my point about him is that - quite ready or not - he's one of the few we've got with general ability and the willingness to attack the box.

I'm not sure you don't underrate him a bit mind. He and Tejan Sie fairly quietly boss midfield in every match I've seen. TJ gets better with every game and is starting to score now but Kingy times his runs well and covers more ground than you might think.