Another part to the RK urban myth

[Head Honcho]

Think we dissallusion ourselves a little as supporters on this point.

Sheehan - Wasn't even considered invaluable for Mansfield

O'Grady - Can't really get in the side and is obviously limited

Weso - Constantly injured, 1 or 2 good performances but nothing to suggest he's a 'success'

Stearman - Was good, went backwards, plays well now but still not good enough to make a position 'his own'

Logan - I'll give you that one

Porter - Still awaiting his impact really, losing out on a regular berth to an old carthorse and a loan star

Gradel, Odihambo et al - all very promising by all accounts but so were the others (see above fates)

I'm not trying to be deliberately negative but I am getting a little tired hearing the same old lines about our youth and seeing so very little product when given their chance.

Unfortunately I agree with all of the above

[Head Honcho]

Funnily enough that's exactly how Keegan approached it to get out of this division and he ddidn't change in the top flight. He swamped forward.

Six nil or something when Leicester went up there. I don't think they conceded five shots that day let alone five goals...but we always argue on this one!

From what I've seen of teams this season, they don't commit enough players forward, nor have enough pace (generally) to hurt anyone that badly on the counter - especially away from home.

7-1

I sometimes wonder what would have happened to Newcastle if the season before we hadn't allowed them to beat us 2-1 at home on the last day of the season enabling them to beat relegation to the old 3rd division.

I doubt KK would have stayed at the club.

[eaststandtom]

Our league performances since he came to the Club

a major factor for this are the resources he has to deal with.

if jose mourinho was our manager we might be tenth at best

[Dazed and Confused]

lets face it, with limited funds and players whose confidence was in tatters when he first arrived, he been abslolutely smashing, he has saved the club from a massive hole which would have been league one. All of that said whether he is the right man to take the club on, only time will tell.

[Dr The Singh]

lets face it, with limited funds and players whose confidence was in tatters when he first arrived, he been abslolutely smashing, he has saved the club from a massive hole which would have been league one. All of that said whether he is the right man to take the club on, only time will tell.

Let's look to the future, I for one beleive RK did a great job saving us last season, but there hasn't been any improvement, (resources or no resources) in particular in the manner in which we play, the side barely strings 5 passes together. RK's tactics are defensive, especially away from home. RK has added nothing interms of spirit and imagination in out play!

Now, i'm not going to compare him with other managers but there have been many that have atleast tried to achieve alot more then mediocrity, many have failed and many have suceeded, but atleast they tried!!!!

[Royston.]

Think we dissallusion ourselves a little as supporters on this point.

Sheehan - Wasn't even considered invaluable for Mansfield

O'Grady - Can't really get in the side and is obviously limited

Weso - Constantly injured, 1 or 2 good performances but nothing to suggest he's a 'success'

Stearman - Was good, went backwards, plays well now but still not good enough to make a position 'his own'

Logan - I'll give you that one

Porter - Still awaiting his impact really, losing out on a regular berth to an old carthorse and a loan star

Gradel, Odihambo et al - all very promising by all accounts but so were the others (see above fates)

I'm not trying to be deliberately negative but I am getting a little tired hearing the same old lines about our youth and seeing so very little product when given their chance.

Its Kelly's fault some of these players arent regulars.

[Ric Flair]

We've lost one player from last season under Kelly and that's Joey Gudjonsson, who most fans don't believe to be as influential as I do. However, since Joey has gone Leicester have only won 5 league matches out of 18, a record not good enough considering the results Kelly guided us to last season. Now it's not all down to Gudjonsson leaving, it's alot of factors and the buck stops with the manager. We aren't doing aswell as we did under him last season, he's got us playing different football for a start.

My biggest gripe with Kelly comes down to the fact he either tells his defenders and goal keepers to constantly hoof long balls up to our strikers, or if he doesn't tell them to do this then he is guilty of not doing anything about it when his players consistently do this. I wouldn't mind so much if we had strikers good enough in the air to cause a threat, but that's not the case. Our strikers haven't scored a headed goal this season and very rarely has a long kick from our defence or goalie directly led to a goal being scored for us. It's regularly surrended possession to the opposition though. If Kelly is going to insist on we do this, or allow his players to get away with this then he must bring in players who benefit from this style of play. If he doesn't then there's no excuses and it's unforgivable in my book.

Zero headed goals from our strikers this season

Zero goals scored directly from a cross from our strikers this season

Zero headed goals from any of our players from open play this season. (I may need to check that one out )

What i'm trying to say is that this side isn't naturally strong enough in the air, especially up front and in midfield to play the type of football we do. This is a basic observation here aswell, so why on earth is our manager allowing this to happen. It's ludicrous.

[Dazed and Confused]

I hadn't really thought about that Ric, but he weighed in with goals and would battle. Fair shout to get back on loan.

[Thracian]

Yes Yes Thracian, differnt league now isn't it, and Keegans players had a squidge more talent than ours do, our defenders don't have the pace to defend a high line which would have to go with the tatics you describe which is why we would get hit on the break. Plus our midfielders don't have the vision to create chances, their rubbish at retaining possesition when going forwards, and most of them have no pace as well.

oh and three of our strikers aren't on goal scoreing form.

If you can field a team that doesn't have these problems please post it.

The League's not so different. In fact it doesn't look intimidating at all from what I've seen.

It's not my fault we haven't employed fast attacking full-backs, I called for it loud enough and long enough over the summer because it would be a priority to me.

It is not my fault we've never use attacking midfielders and didn't get any in the close season and it is not my fault we don't have two functioning specialist strikers when we play someone unfit while a fit "club's most natural finisher" goes out on loan.

We reinforced with the wrong people close season but right now:

4-4-2:

Logan;

Stearman, McCarthy, Kisnorbo, Tiatto;

Hammond, King, Williams, Porter;

Hume, Fryatt.

4-3-3:

Logan;

Stearman, McCarthy, Kisnorbo, Tiatto;

Williams

King, Porter;

Hammond, Hume, Fryatt.

Neither of these sides have anything like the talent of the old Newcastle side (nor does anyone else in our division) but if would form the basis of what we need.

Williams could be replaced by Wesolowski when he runs our of steam but I've put King instead of Hughes because we need his height, passing ability, scoring threat and close support to the forwards. He also passes forwards as well as sideways whereas Hughes tends not to.

My big doubt is Fryatt. I'd much sooner have Dodds right now.

I'm not saying Tiatto's a better left-back than Nils just that he fits the system better - the idea of playing the right type of players to fit the approach almost all the way through (except for centre-backs).

Tiatto's gone to full-back simply because he can support attacks more closely than Nils - and deliver a free-kick.

Sheehan is not an option cos he's not fit and Mattock isn't old enough which is a pity because, moaning sod that he seems, he's energetic, aggressive and supports any attack with attitude and no little skill. City fans will like him.

I doubt they make em much tougher for 16.

[Manwell Pablo]

We've lost one player from last season under Kelly and that's Joey Gudjonsson, who most fans don't believe to be as influential as I do. However, since Joey has gone Leicester have only won 5 league matches out of 18, a record not good enough considering the results Kelly guided us to last season. Now it's not all down to Gudjonsson leaving, it's alot of factors and the buck stops with the manager. We aren't doing aswell as we did under him last season, he's got us playing different football for a start.

My biggest gripe with Kelly comes down to the fact he either tells his defenders and goal keepers to constantly hoof long balls up to our strikers, or if he doesn't tell them to do this then he is guilty of not doing anything about it when his players consistently do this. I wouldn't mind so much if we had strikers good enough in the air to cause a threat, but that's not the case. Our strikers haven't scored a headed goal this season and very rarely has a long kick from our defence or goalie directly led to a goal being scored for us. It's regularly surrended possession to the opposition though. If Kelly is going to insist on we do this, or allow his players to get away with this then he must bring in players who benefit from this style of play. If he doesn't then there's no excuses and it's unforgivable in my book.

Zero headed goals from our strikers this season

Zero goals scored directly from a cross from our strikers this season

Zero headed goals from any of our players from open play this season. (I may need to check that one out )

What i'm trying to say is that this side isn't naturally strong enough in the air, especially up front and in midfield to play the type of football we do. This is a basic observation here aswell, so why on earth is our manager allowing this to happen. It's ludicrous.

Stearmen, Villa.

Rest is true, Gudjonsson is sorely missed.

EDIT: Please nobody suggest loaning him back

[Dazed and Confused]

The League's not so different. In fact it doesn't look intimidating at all from what I've seen.

It's not my fault we haven't employed fast attacking full-backs, I called for it loud enough and long enough over the summer because it would be a priority to me.

It is not my fault we've never use attacking midfielders and didn't get any in the close season and it is not my fault we don't have two functioning specialist strikers when we play someone unfit while a fit "club's most natural finisher" goes out on loan.

We reinforced with the wrong people close season but right now:

4-4-2:

Logan;

Stearman, McCarthy, Kisnorbo, Tiatto;

Hammond, King, Williams, Porter;

Hume, Fryatt.

4-3-3:

Logan;

Stearman, McCarthy, Kisnorbo, Tiatto;

Williams

King, Porter;

Hammond, Hume, Fryatt.

Neither of these sides have anything like the talent of the old Newcastle side (nor does anyone else in our division) but if would form the basis of what we need.

Williams could be replaced by Wesolowski when he runs our of steam but I've put King instead of Hughes because we need his height, passing ability, scoring threat and close support to the forwards. He also passes forwards as well as sideways whereas Hughes tends not to.

My big doubt is Fryatt. I'd much sooner have Dodds right now.

I'm not saying Tiatto's a better left-back than Nils just that he fits the system better - the idea of playing the right type of players to fit the approach almost all the way through (except for centre-backs).

Tiatto's gone to full-back simply because he can support attacks more closely than Nils - and deliver a free-kick.

Sheehan is not an option cos he's not fit and Mattock isn't old enough which is a pity because, moaning sod that he seems, he's energetic, aggressive and supports any attack with attitude and no little skill. City fans will like him.

I doubt they make em much tougher for 16.

FFS Thracian King ain't gonna play

Odihambo showed that you can look good in the youths but not in the 1st team.

The fact is we don't have good enough players

Rob kelly has the same squad virtually as Levein, minus Joey plus a few more irrelevants. Consequently we're still shit.

[Stevosevic]

Stearmen, Villa.

Rest is true, Gudjonsson is sorely missed.

EDIT: Please nobody suggest loaning him back

wasnt a header?

[Dr The Singh]

Stearmen, Villa.

Rest is true, Gudjonsson is sorely missed.

EDIT: Please nobody suggest loaning him back

He ain't comming back anyhow, let's look to the future, there must be other options, and that includes Kelly (even though we can't think of any decent optiosn to replace him with)!!!

[Manwell Pablo]

The League's not so different. In fact it doesn't look intimidating at all from what I've seen.

It's not my fault we haven't employed fast attacking full-backs, I called for it loud enough and long enough over the summer because it would be a priority to me.

It is not my fault we've never use attacking midfielders and didn't get any in the close season and it is not my fault we don't have two functioning specialist strikers when we play someone unfit while a fit "club's most natural finisher" goes out on loan.

Your teams don't look so bad but I doubt they'd improve us much, if at all.

Your quite right it's not your fault, it isn't Rob Kellys either. He had nothing to bring these players in with. There is no point in suggesting gung ho attacking football and then admitting we don't have the players for it. The system should fit the team in our situation, when Rob's got some money he can build a team to fit his system.

[Thracian]

FFS Thracian King ain't gonna play

Odihambo showed that you can look good in the youths but not in the 1st team.

The fact is we don't have good enough players

Rob kelly has the same squad virtually as Levein, minus Joey plus a few more irrelevants. Consequently we're still shit.

That's cobblers about Odhiambo. Some people habitually shine on their debuts, Eric is a notably nervous starter, and I said that before he played against Villa. He looked indifferent for the reserves first time out but he sure made up for it later and became very reliable.

Anyone could see he was apprehensive against Villa but he barely got a decent pass for the whole time he was on, and certainly no-one had the energy left to support, so it's ridiculous to make such a snap judgement.

This lad's top scored this season 14 goals in 11 games or something thereabouts and he's both skillful, selfless and a tidy finisher.

You put Eric around good players for any time and he'll respond. But what do we do? Give him 20 minutes and let him disappear into oblivion instead of involving him occasionally on the bench.

As for King I don't know how many times you've watched him but he's been in extraordinary consistent and effective form the many games I've watched.

Furthermore, although he's scored four in 11 or so from midfield and he could have had a bucketful. He must have had 10-12 good shots last Saturday, more than Hughes has in a month.

Perhaps he lacks a bit of ruthlessness when finishing cos he forever threatens the goal but he's also victim of some good goalkeeping on occasions.

Big thing though is he gives another heading option in the penalty box yet is perfectly skillful on the floor. He's had loads of experience too. What's to lose when the alternatives are so poor?

[Manwell Pablo]

wasnt a header?

Sorry, I ment Southampton

[Thracian]

Your teams don't look so bad but I doubt they'd improve us much, if at all.

Your quite right it's not your fault, it isn't Rob Kellys either. He had nothing to bring these players in with. There is no point in suggesting gung ho attacking football and then admitting we don't have the players for it. The system should fit the team in our situation, when Rob's got some money he can build a team to fit his system.

I agree about having the system to fit the players - we just argue about how that should be.

Apart from it being a lousy advert for football, I despair of defence overload because we cannot defend a game or avoid conceding no matter how many defenders we use.

We concede at more than a goal a game and therefore need to aim for two goals a game ourselves. We'll never average that with our team selectionas is proved by our having scored 18 so far in 18 games League games - exactly one.

Second bottom Barnsley have scored 22 up to last Saturday which only emphasises how little we commit to attack.

[Ric Flair]

I agree about having the system to fit the players - we just argue about how that should be.

Apart from it being a lousy advert for football, I despair of defence overload because we cannot defend a game or avoid conceding no matter how many defenders we use.

We concede at more than a goal a game and therefore need to aim for two goals a game ourselves. We'll never average that with our team selectionas is proved by our having scored 18 so far in 18 games League games - exactly one.

Second bottom Barnsley have scored 22 up to last Saturday which only emphasises how little we commit to attack.

You make a very good point here Thrac.

It was also the case under Craig Levein. It's bizarre. This club has some very talented defenders for this level, yet we rarely keep clean sheets. We play 5 defenders a match and hardly any midfielders with attacking instincts, yet we still concede goals. This is down to coaching and again our style of play. If you continue to concede possession cheaply (like we do, by always looking for the long, upfield pass) then the opoosition will always come at you, which inevitably leads to increased attempts on goal.

How can us fans see this, yet our manager with 25 years experience in the game and his coaches not? Or perhaps they have noticed this and what makes matters worse is they aren't capable or bothered enough to make changes.

[potter3]

I don't know if he does this but he should film the game from a high vantage point, and show it to the players, especially people like Sylla. This could help them find where they're going wrong, show them the spaces they can move into, and the pass they can play, because its easy to spot the right pass when you are in the stands, but it is a lot harder for the players on the pitch.

[BartonFox]

Barton - yet another stupid and pointless post. You think you know everything and slate anyone that states otherwise.

How do you know Kelly was/is a shit coach? If I remember correctly, I seem to recall Teeno meeting Wesolowski last season just after Kelly took over. Weso apparently was full of praise for Kelly then (ask Teeno for confirmation). Yet you speak like you've been to Kelly's training sessions and are an expert in the area.

You want Kelly out, we get the message. There's no need to try to disguise your dislike of Kelly by posting shit like this.

My my what a well reasoned arguement you have there.

The evidence that our players started the season unfit would have been enough, but even for those who still have their heads buried in the sand with the blue tinted glasses on the performances of our team and lack of tactical plans should have nailed it.

Let me tell you something about professional players, they don't go round slating the management to any Tom, Dick or Harry.

Where were you Barton when we were on our unbeaten run and climbing the league, not around if I recall. A bit like when Kelly saved us last season you vanished until we started to lose a few games.

We have had three managers now who have tried and not done a great deal in this division, maybe it's about time we started to look at the real problem...

The lack of quality players!!!

When we have a fully fit squad we can just about compete in this division. When a few players are out we have no chance.

Saying the same as I am now. I even praised him 2 weeks ago for sorting it out and straight away he returns to type.

Rob Kelly is a fantastic coach in my opinion, that is clear to see by the players such as Wesolowski (mentioned in Anish's post) and Johansson praising Kelly publically in an article posted on here a few days back. However I don't think Kelly is a great manager, his tactical side is lacking a fair bit, the defensive mind when we're going away to a shit side like Sheff Wed springs to mind, we beat Stoke by ATTACKING so why be scared of a lesser side? He has done this often enough and doesn't seem to have learned from the start of the season that it just doesnt work. I think he should stay as a coach at the club though. Mandaric I feel will bring in someone who does have that certain authority about them and tactical nous, at least thats what I'm hoping, with Kelly we'll be mid-table or less virtually every season.

Again what evidence is there he is a good coach? If someone can provide me with the evidence then I will take it on.

But since he arrived at the Club we have languished in the bottom half of the table, we were unfit at the start of the year, he doesn't know his best team and he plays people out of position.

But here is the big one, the one that everyone holds up in his defence............. He doesn't have quality players. Well if he was such a good coach they'd be better by now, eh?

[Loake]

Same old rubbish from Barton. I wish I was as knowledgable about football as him. Having said that, he did state as fact that Fryatt would be sold by August - funny, I could have sworn I saw him playing for us on Saturday. Perhaps Barton is not infallible after all - be nice to hear him admit it 'tho.

[Thracian]

My my what a well reasoned arguement you have there.

The evidence that our players started the season unfit would have been enough, but even for those who still have their heads buried in the sand with the blue tinted glasses on the performances of our team and lack of tactical plans should have nailed it.

Let me tell you something about professional players, they don't go round slating the management to any Tom, Dick or Harry.

Saying the same as I am now. I even praised him 2 weeks ago for sorting it out and straight away he returns to type.

Again what evidence is there he is a good coach? If someone can provide me with the evidence then I will take it on.

But since he arrived at the Club we have languished in the bottom half of the table, we were unfit at the start of the year, he doesn't know his best team and he plays people out of position.

But here is the big one, the one that everyone holds up in his defence............. He doesn't have quality players. Well if he was such a good coach they'd be better by now, eh?

I don't think MON always had what I'd describe as quality players, certainly not in the Bergkamp sense. He just made everyone feel like a giant and he got everyone to do their particular job well. They had great unity but I didn't get the feeling they were all charging around trying to do two or even three jobs.

Guppy was a great example. It was quite clear than his instructions were to keep the width, engineer a crossing position and deliver the best ball in that he could as soon as there were people in the box to receive it.

Yes he helped at times but he didn't burn too much energy doing other things. Yet did he ever play better than at Leicester? Why? Because in doing what he did best he was allowed to be effective.

In many ways MON made an art form of keeping it simple. "That's your job. that's yours and that's yours," seemed to be his approach.

He took people's strengths and applied them in the most useful way and to greatest effect, Heskey being another prime example.

Everyone seemed to know precisely what was expected and MON seemed to have faith in people doing their jobs without the need for them to do very much of someone else's.

That doesn't seem the case with Kelly's players.

[Smudge]

Zero headed goals from our strikers this season

In this case size does matter. Unkess I have missed someone, only one of our resident strikers is over 6 foot.

Hume 5 '7"

Fryatt 5' 10"

Hammond 5' 9"

Chris O' Grady 6' 3"

Mark de Vries 6' 3"

Old greats like Stanley Matthews Jimmy Greaves, George Best, Dennis Law and even todays strikers Owen, Rooney all of them short guys and they score with their feet. So unless we buy tall uns our strikers aint going to score many headers; thats a physiological issue not a training problem. Wheras Kisnobo and Stearman are 6 '2 apiece and have scored for Leicester with headers.

[Head Honcho]

Yes Yes Thracian, differnt league now isn't it, and Keegans players had a squidge more talent than ours do, our defenders don't have the pace to defend a high line which would have to go with the tatics you describe which is why we would get hit on the break. Plus our midfielders don't have the vision to create chances, their rubbish at retaining possesition when going forwards, and most of them have no pace as well.

oh and three of our strikers aren't on goal scoreing form.

If you can field a team that doesn't have these problems please post it.

Not when he joined Newcastle did they!

They were playing to crowds of 10000 and a loss against leicester in the last match of the season would have seen them in division three

Unfortunately they beat us and the rest is history

[l444ry]

Laughable most of this!! All these armchair experts slagging off Rob Kelly, a man who is working with one hand tied behind his back. Or is that irrelevant? The time to heap all this naive abuse on Kelly is if he fails after he's given funds to strengthen this godforsaken squad. I'd love to be a fly on the wall listening to some of the team-talks some of you lot would give. It's so easy sniping from behind a keyboard. It would be interesting to know if many of you Kelly baiters have actually played or managed football at a decent level because it's hard to believe any have judging by some of this rubbish.