BartonFox Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 Why are people saying he is a good coach, what evidence is there of it? Sadly it just seems a line chucked out by those who don't know about football or can't be seen to be disloyal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 What proof do you have to suggest he ISN'T a good coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartonFox Posted 21 November 2006 Author Share Posted 21 November 2006 What proof do you have to suggest he ISN'T a good coach? Our league performances since he came to the Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 It takes more than coaching skills to run a side. The club's progress with the younger players seems to be having a positive effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilesyboy Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 It takes more than coaching skills to run a side. The club's progress with the younger players seems to be having a positive effect. Think we dissallusion ourselves a little as supporters on this point. Sheehan - Wasn't even considered invaluable for Mansfield O'Grady - Can't really get in the side and is obviously limited Weso - Constantly injured, 1 or 2 good performances but nothing to suggest he's a 'success' Stearman - Was good, went backwards, plays well now but still not good enough to make a position 'his own' Logan - I'll give you that one Porter - Still awaiting his impact really, losing out on a regular berth to an old carthorse and a loan star Gradel, Odihambo et al - all very promising by all accounts but so were the others (see above fates) I'm not trying to be deliberately negative but I am getting a little tired hearing the same old lines about our youth and seeing so very little product when given their chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anish Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 Barton - yet another stupid and pointless post. You think you know everything and slate anyone that states otherwise. How do you know Kelly was/is a shit coach? If I remember correctly, I seem to recall Teeno meeting Wesolowski last season just after Kelly took over. Weso apparently was full of praise for Kelly then (ask Teeno for confirmation). Yet you speak like you've been to Kelly's training sessions and are an expert in the area. You want Kelly out, we get the message. There's no need to try to disguise your dislike of Kelly by posting shit like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationwider Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 All matches, 25 Jan 06 to present - P38 W15 D12 L11. Not pretty, but pretty effective, under the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverFox Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 Our league performances since he came to the Club Whats wrong with them? Taking a team bereft of confidence and keeping them up is not an achievement that should be underestimated. We owe him a debt of gratitude for what he has managed against the odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teblin Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 The fact that we are the only side who hasn't spent a penny, his hands are tied a bit!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 Where were you Barton when we were on our unbeaten run and climbing the league, not around if I recall. A bit like when Kelly saved us last season you vanished until we started to lose a few games. We have had three managers now who have tried and not done a great deal in this division, maybe it's about time we started to look at the real problem... The lack of quality players!!! When we have a fully fit squad we can just about compete in this division. When a few players are out we have no chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 Where were you Barton when we were on our unbeaten run and climbing the league, not around if I recall. A bit like when Kelly saved us last season you vanished until we started to lose a few games. We have had three managers now who have tried and not done a great deal in this division, maybe it's about time we started to look at the real problem... The lack of quality players!!! When we have a fully fit squad we can just about compete in this division. When a few players are out we have no chance. To be fair, I think Barton was recovering from his severe beating he took from those nasty Ukranians when he went with the Tartan Army to watch the sweaties several weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 To be fair, I think Barton was recovering from his severe beating he took from those nasty Ukranians when he went with the Tartan Army to watch the sweaties several weeks ago. Shame. Either way, I can't respect someone who calls for a managers head after one game. His opinions are null and void regarding Kelly as far as i'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 Shame. Either way, I can't respect someone who calls for a managers head after one game. His opinions are null and void regarding Kelly as far as i'm concerned. Barton has always kept the same opinion on Kelly even from the off when we won about 6 in 9 games last season. He doesn't rate him, that's his opinion and it's never faltered even when we've had a decent run. He's not exactly in the minority here, there seem to be a growing number of fans who aren't sure on Kelly and it only quietens down when we go on a good run. Where as our mate Barton, doesn't let up even after a sterling win. At least he's not fickle We're still no better off than we were this time last season. Infact exactly a year ago this saturday, we beat Sheffield United 4-2 at home and climbed to 12th in the table and really thought we'd turned the corner. A month on and we were staring at a nasty relegation battle and looked like there was no way out. I'm not saying that will happen again, but we're not far off doing that should we continue this bad spell we're on over the past 3 or 4 games. On the other hand, we're only a few wins away from being back in the play-off hunt. We're in limbo, it's hard to choose which side to be on. Optimism or pessimism. When in the past 3 seasons has anything really optimistic happened for us on the football field. It's hard to keep being optimistic when it continues to be a false reality. The Mandaric deal is a breath of fresh air and something to cling on to. But Kelly doesn't appear to be a Mandaric sort of guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Hero Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 Barton has always kept the same opinion on Kelly even from the off when we won about 6 in 9 games last season. He doesn't rate him, that's his opinion and it's never faltered even when we've had a decent run. He's not exactly in the minority here, there seem to be a growing number of fans who aren't sure on Kelly and it only quietens down when we go on a good run. Where as our mate Barton, doesn't let up even after a sterling win. At least he's not fickle We're still no better off than we were this time last season. Infact exactly a year ago this saturday, we beat Sheffield United 4-2 at home and climbed to 12th in the table and really thought we'd turned the corner. A month on and we were staring at a nasty relegation battle and looked like there was no way out. I'm not saying that will happen again, but we're not far off doing that should we continue this bad spell we're on over the past 3 or 4 games. On the other hand, we're only a few wins away from being back in the play-off hunt. We're in limbo, it's hard to choose which side to be on. Optimism or pessimism. When in the past 3 seasons has anything really optimistic happened for us on the football field. It's hard to keep being optimistic when it continues to be a false reality. The Mandaric deal is a breath of fresh air and something to cling on to. But Kelly doesn't appear to be a Mandaric sort of guy. *sheepishly raises hand* I'm actually with BartonFox on this one. I have no insider knowledge to support it.. just my own feelings towards the man based upon various decisions he has made since being in charge of the side. His attitude and outlook don't match mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 Barton has always kept the same opinion on Kelly even from the off when we won about 6 in 9 games last season. He doesn't rate him, that's his opinion and it's never faltered even when we've had a decent run. He's not exactly in the minority here, there seem to be a growing number of fans who aren't sure on Kelly and it only quietens down when we go on a good run. Where as our mate Barton, doesn't let up even after a sterling win. At least he's not fickle We're still no better off than we were this time last season. My points not about the merits of Kelly. My point was Bartons views are about as unbiased as asking the bnp what they think of asylum seekers. We haven't progressed from where we were this time last year. But we have progressed from when he took over as we were dead and burried. How far he can take us I don't know, i'd like to see him be able to get in some loan players at xmas and see what he does with that, and where we end up finishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 Shame. :w00t: You concern is simply TOO touching :laugh: *Mental note to self: don't go to Babylon seeking sympathy in a time of crisis* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durnerz Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 Rob Kelly is a fantastic coach in my opinion, that is clear to see by the players such as Wesolowski (mentioned in Anish's post) and Johansson praising Kelly publically in an article posted on here a few days back. However I don't think Kelly is a great manager, his tactical side is lacking a fair bit, the defensive mind when we're going away to a shit side like Sheff Wed springs to mind, we beat Stoke by ATTACKING so why be scared of a lesser side? He has done this often enough and doesn't seem to have learned from the start of the season that it just doesnt work. I think he should stay as a coach at the club though. Mandaric I feel will bring in someone who does have that certain authority about them and tactical nous, at least thats what I'm hoping, with Kelly we'll be mid-table or less virtually every season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 :w00t: You concern is simply TOO touching :laugh: *Mental note to self: don't go to Babylon seeking sympathy in a time of crisis* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreal Madrid Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 Same old rubbish from Barton. I wish I was as knowledgable about football as him. Having said that, he did state as fact that Fryatt would be sold by August - funny, I could have sworn I saw him playing for us on Saturday. Perhaps Barton is not infallible after all - be nice to hear him admit it 'tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 Think we dissallusion ourselves a little as supporters on this point. Sheehan - Wasn't even considered invaluable for Mansfield O'Grady - Can't really get in the side and is obviously limited Weso - Constantly injured, 1 or 2 good performances but nothing to suggest he's a 'success' Stearman - Was good, went backwards, plays well now but still not good enough to make a position 'his own' Logan - I'll give you that one Porter - Still awaiting his impact really, losing out on a regular berth to an old carthorse and a loan star Gradel, Odihambo et al - all very promising by all accounts but so were the others (see above fates) I'm not trying to be deliberately negative but I am getting a little tired hearing the same old lines about our youth and seeing so very little product when given their chance. You touch on an important point and one which only adds fuel to Barton's view - that too many players fail to function at their best under RK. I think its mainly to do with them being drafted into a team which doesn't play in the way they're used to. We have two styles of footballer in the same team. At reserve team level (when they play) and at Academy level they press forward and attack in numbers, real numbers. Any player with the ball has several options as to what to do and lots of close support so that, even if the ball is lost, it is usually recovered on the rebound so to speak. That simply doesn't happen in the first team and, apart from Logan, Porter has probably found it easiest to adapt. It is one of the reasons we need to complete our transition rapidly to one of attacking pass and move football with young, fast, agile footballers. As for evidence that the coaching is lacking it's there every week. We've had some success with Tiatto bending a free-kick in on the goallie so what do we do - we repeat the thing til every opponent is expecting that approach instead of posing a series of different problems. Our corners are invariably bent in to the edge of the six yard box for our big defenders. Everyone knows that. We should play some short and some hard and low - first to keep the opposition guessing and second to take a player or two away from our big men and so give them more space in the box. Coaching is all about being one step ahead and being more imaginative and more efficient than the opposition. I can't remember more than one occasion when we've done a crossover, there's very little overlapping, we cramp our space at throw-ins, we don't hit feet from the throws, and only Porter, Tiatto and Hume of our players ever seem to pass and move. Off the ball movement is a joke - it hardly exists. Just look up when your sitting in the stand and one of our defenders brings the ball out and looks for a pass. See how many people are actually moving to try and create space. There's more movement in a graveyard and I've rarely seen it so pronounced at our club right now. All that might not be what Kelly has called for, I don't know. But it's what he's getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox in a Box Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 Rob Kelly is the best thing since Jock Wallace, MON blah blah was lucky at a time lcfc was on the up. Jock had no funds and was a work horse I see what rob has done to turn this club around and its wonderful. When he is given the green light too then we will see his quality come through..... Thats my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 You touch on an important point and one which only adds fuel to Barton's view - that too many players fail to function at their best under RK. I think its mainly to do with them being drafted into a team which doesn't play in the way they're used to. We have two styles of footballer in the same team. At reserve team level (when they play) and at Academy level they press forward and attack in numbers, real numbers. Any player with the ball has several options as to what to do and lots of close support so that, even if the ball is lost, it is usually recovered on the rebound so to speak. That simply doesn't happen in the first team and, apart from Logan, Porter has probably found it easiest to adapt. It is one of the reasons we need to complete our transition rapidly to one of attacking pass and move football with young, fast, agile footballers. As for evidence that the coaching is lacking it's there every week. We've had some success with Tiatto bending a free-kick in on the goallie so what do we do - we repeat the thing til every opponent is expecting that approach instead of posing a series of different problems. Our corners are invariably bent in to the edge of the six yard box for our big defenders. Everyone knows that. We should play some short and some hard and low - first to keep the opposition guessing and second to take a player or two away from our big men and so give them more space in the box. Coaching is all about being one step ahead and being more imaginative and more efficient than the opposition. I can't remember more than one occasion when we've done a crossover, there's very little overlapping, we cramp our space at throw-ins, we don't hit feet from the throws, and only Porter, Tiatto and Hume of our players ever seem to pass and move. Off the ball movement is a joke - it hardly exists. Just look up when your sitting in the stand and one of our defenders brings the ball out and looks for a pass. See how many people are actually moving to try and create space. There's more movement in a graveyard and I've rarely seen it so pronounced at our club right now. All that might not be what Kelly has called for, I don't know. But it's what he's getting. Attack like that in the Championship you will concead about five goals to counter attacking football, you can gurantee you wont be winning the ball "on the rebound" either , It will be hoofed, headed on, put in't net. Good points about the set pieces but if we took a shot corner the ball would be back on the half way line in 20 seconds and hard and low doesn't beat the first man these days. The rest of it sums up why we're not doing paticularly well this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 Attack like that in the Championship you will concead about five goals to counter attacking football, you can gurantee you wont be winning the ball "on the rebound" either , It will be hoofed, headed on, put in't net. Good points about the set pieces but if we took a shot corner the ball would be back on the half way line in 20 seconds and hard and low doesn't beat the first man these days. The rest of it sums up why we're not doing paticularly well this season Funnily enough that's exactly how Keegan approached it to get out of this division and he ddidn't change in the top flight. He swamped forward. Six nil or something when Leicester went up there. I don't think they conceded five shots that day let alone five goals...but we always argue on this one! From what I've seen of teams this season, they don't commit enough players forward, nor have enough pace (generally) to hurt anyone that badly on the counter - especially away from home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 21 November 2006 Share Posted 21 November 2006 Funnily enough that's exactly how Keegan approached it to get out of this division and he ddidn't change in the top flight. He swamped forward. Six nil or something when Leicester went up there. I don't think they conceded five shots that day let alone five goals...but we always argue on this one! From what I've seen of teams this season, they don't commit enough players forward, nor have enough pace (generally) to hurt anyone that badly on the counter - especially away from home. Yes Yes Thracian, differnt league now isn't it, and Keegans players had a squidge more talent than ours do, our defenders don't have the pace to defend a high line which would have to go with the tatics you describe which is why we would get hit on the break. Plus our midfielders don't have the vision to create chances, their rubbish at retaining possesition when going forwards, and most of them have no pace as well. oh and three of our strikers aren't on goal scoreing form. If you can field a team that doesn't have these problems please post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.