Guantanamo Bay demonstration

[Lineker's Left Foot]

Was shopping in Nottingham yesterday and lots of youngsters were wearing the orange suits, protesting about Guantanamo Bay and the condition of the place that holds Muslim Terrorists.

Why would they protest about this? For heavens sakes, each prisoner in there has been caught red-handed, I mean, do they think that a Muslim was taken there having been caught planting turnips FFS.

I'd rather they protest about our pathetic criminal justice system in this country and campaign for more rights for the law-abiding VICTIMS of crime.

[Zingari]

Was shopping in Nottingham yesterday and lots of youngsters were wearing the orange suits, protesting about Guantanamo Bay and the condition of the place that holds Muslim Terrorists.

Why would they protest about this? For heavens sakes, each prisoner in there has been caught red-handed, I mean, do they think that a Muslim was taken there having been caught planting turnips FFS.

I'd rather they protest about our pathetic criminal justice system in this country and campaign for more rights for the law-abiding VICTIMS of crime.

planting turnips out of position is criminal , no doubt some on here will argue RK does it every week and should be sent to G. Bay

[Lineker's Left Foot]

planting turnips out of position is criminal , no doubt some on here will argue RK does it every week and should be sent to G. Bay

[Alexikokopops]

Was shopping in Nottingham yesterday and lots of youngsters were wearing the orange suits, protesting about Guantanamo Bay and the condition of the place that holds Muslim Terrorists.

Why would they protest about this? For heavens sakes, each prisoner in there has been caught red-handed, I mean, do they think that a Muslim was taken there having been caught planting turnips FFS.

I'd rather they protest about our pathetic criminal justice system in this country and campaign for more rights for the law-abiding VICTIMS of crime.

People's general beef isn't that they've been "caught red-handed" but that prisoners are held there without charge, and there's solid reports of lack of human rights and torture.

[Steven]

Was shopping in Nottingham yesterday and lots of youngsters were wearing the orange suits, protesting about Guantanamo Bay and the condition of the place that holds Muslim Terrorists.

Why would they protest about this? For heavens sakes, each prisoner in there has been caught red-handed, I mean, do they think that a Muslim was taken there having been caught planting turnips FFS.

I'd rather they protest about our pathetic criminal justice system in this country and campaign for more rights for the law-abiding VICTIMS of crime.

The Americans offered bounties to capture people.

[Daggers]

Why would they protest about this? For heavens sakes, each prisoner in there has been caught red-handed

I think you'll find they were protesting because of ignorant and unfounded attitudes like the one you opened the thread with.

Illegal imprisonment, torture and then released without charge or recompense, the only crime they are guilty of is being Muslim and looking a bit different. Seems enough to get worked up about to me.

[Webbo]

I think you'll find they were protesting because of ignorant and unfounded attitudes like the one you opened the thread with.

Illegal imprisonment, torture and then released without charge or recompense, the only crime they are guilty of is being Muslim and looking a bit different. Seems enough to get worked up about to me.

and trying to kill our soldiers, i think that might be a tiny bit to do with it aswell.

[Daggers]

and trying to kill our soldiers, i think that might be a tiny bit to do with it aswell.

Wrong.

[Daggers]

Guantánamo Bay - a Human Rights scandal

In January 2002, the US authorities transferred the first "war on terror" detainees – hooded and shackled – to the US Naval Base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. Despite a major international outcry and expert condemnation, hundreds of people of around 30 nationalities remain there.

Denied their rights under international law and held in conditions which may amount to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment, the detainees face severe psychological distress. Three have died at the camp, after apparently committing suicide. Others have gone on prolonged hunger strikes, being kept alive only through painful force feeding measures.

As more evidence surfaces that the abuse of Guantánamo detainees has been widespread, condemnation at home and abroad increases. Amnesty International was one of the first voices to call for the camp to be closed, and many other organizations, institutions and individuals have since expressed their outrage at its existence. Even US President George W. Bush has said that he would like to close Guantánamo. He should do it as a matter of urgency.

Secret detention and enforced disappearance

Many of those held in Guantánamo were captured during the international conflict in Afghanistan. Others were picked up outside any zones of armed conflict in countries as diverse as Gambia, Bosnia, Egypt, Indonesia and Thailand.

The US Government should close the Guantánamo Bay detention facilities without further delay.

UN report on Guantánamo Bay, February 2006

In early September 2006, US authorities transferred to Guantánamo 14 men who had been held in secret CIA custody. President George W. Bush finally admitted that, in the "war on terror", the USA has been resorting to secret detentions and enforced disappearance, which is a crime under international law.

Inhuman and illegal detention

Released detainees and others still in the camp have alleged that they have been subjected to torture and other cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment while detained by US authorities at Guantánamo or elsewhere.

Some of the detainees are still held in maximum security blocks, sometimes for up to 24 hours a day and with very little out-of-cell exercise time. The detainees have also been subjected to repeated interrogations sometimes for hours at a time and without the presence of a lawyer, raising fears that statements may have been extracted under coercion. The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) is still the only non-governmental organization allowed access to the detainees.

With the prospect of indefinite detention without a fair trial in such conditions, the potential psychological impact upon those held and their loved ones is a major concern. The camp is condemning thousands of people across the world to a life of suffering, torment and stigmatisation.

Presumption of guilt

None of the Guantánamo detainees have been convicted of any criminal charge. Hundreds of them have been released from the base without charge or any form of compensation for the many years they were illegally detained at Guantánamo.

Yet the US authorities still label those held as "enemy combatants", "terrorists", or "the worst of the worst", flouting their right to be presumed innocent and illegally justifying the denial of many of their most basic human rights.

None of the Guantánamo detainees have been granted prisoner of war status or brought before a "competent tribunal" to determine his status, as required by international law. The US government refuses to clarify their legal status.

Military commissions

In November 2001, President Bush signed a Military Order establishing trials by military commission which had the power to hand down death sentences and against whose decision there was no right of appeal to any court.

On 29 June 2006, the US Supreme Court ruled that US President George W. Bush had overstepped his authority in ordering Military Commissions trials, and maintained that the proposed commissions violated US law and the Geneva conventions.

The decision was based on the case of Salim Ahmed Hamdan, a 36-year-old Yemeni national who has spent four years in the US detention centre.

The ruling was a victory for the rule of law and human rights and Amnesty International called on the US government to use it a a springboard for bringing all its "war on terror" detention policies into full compliance of US and international law.

Remember, these are – the ones in Guantánamo Bay are killers. They don’t share the same values we share

President Bush, 20 March 2002

Instead, on 29 September 2006 the US Congress gave its stamp of approval to human rights violations committed by the USA by passing the Military Commissions Act, a new legislation to try foreign nationals held in Guantánamo. President Bush signed the Act on 17 October 2006.

More of the same: from bad executive policy to bad domestic law

The Military Commissions Act leaves the USA squarely on the wrong side of international law.

The Act is discriminatory because it provides for trials of the "enemy" in front of military commissions using lower standards of evidence than apply to US personnel. It also grants the US President the power to hand down death sentences. Whether charged for trial or not, those detained by the USA as "enemy combatants" will not be able to challenge the lawfulness or conditions of their detention in habeas corpus appeals.

Amnesty International is campaigning for repeal of this act.

Releases with protection

Amnesty International calls for and welcomes releases of detainees from the base, if they are not to be charged and brought to fair trial. But they must not be returned to any country where they would be at risk of torture, execution or other serious human rights abuses. All transfers should be with the informed consent of the individuals concerned.

In the cases of serious concerns about the fate of released detainees, the US authorities should intensify efforts to find a country where released detainees can live without risk of further human rights violations, in cooperation with the UN refugee agency (UNCHR). Third countries should consider accepting detainees who voluntarily seek resettlement, especially countries of former habitual residence or where detainees had close family or other ties.

Amnesty

[Daggers]

The protest in Birmingham:

Some 70-80 people gathered today in Perry Barr, Birmingham, in front of Hiatt, a UK company that makes shackles and other torture equipment, to 'celebrate' the 5th anniversary of the notorious US-run prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, where 10 British residents and 400 other prisoners are held illegally. The protest was part of a UK-wide day of action and was called by the Birmingham Guantanamo Campaign, Reprieve, Save Omar Campaign and Amnesty International.

The press release:

New Slavery

During the 2002 war, the CIA distributed thousands of 'imitation bank note' leaflets in Afghanistan and Pakistan, offering rewards of thousands of dollars for the capture of Taliban or al-Quaida fighters. One such leaflet was inscribed with the message "get wealth and power beyond your dreams, help the anti-Taliban forces rid Afghanistan of murderers and terrorists". The rewards on the imitation bank notes were equivalent to $4,285, although detainees testified during military tribunals that bounties ranged from $3,000 to $25,000.

An academic paper by Mark Denbeaux of Seton Hall University concluded that 86% of the detainees in Guantanamo Bay were captured by Pakistani or Northern Alliance tribesmen at a time when the US offered these large bounties for the capture of suspected enemies. Only 5% of detainees were actually captured by US forces. Human rights organisations have voiced concerns that the offer of large rewards in a country blighted by poverty will mostly result in the kidnap of vulnerable and innocent people who would be 'easy pickings' for unscrupulous tribesmen and Northern Alliance members. This analysis is consistent with the stories of many detainees, most notably the "Tipton 3" from the West Midlands, who have maintained that they were kidnapped in Afghanistan whilst travelling back to Pakistan for a wedding.

According to the US government's official figures, 55% of the detainees are determined to not have committed any hostile acts against the US or its allies. "Sometimes, we just didn't get the right folks," said Brig. Gen. Jay Hood, Guantanamo's current commander. Closer inspection of evidence cited as 'proof' that individuals were "enemy combatants" reveals that this included association with an unnamed individual, attending the 'wrong' guest house, possession of a rifle, and ownership of a Casio watch! In Afghanistan, where gun culture is rife, possession of a firearm is widely thought not to distinguish a peaceful civilian from a fighter. US intelligence officials have labeled the Casio F91W "the watch of choice for terrorists", despite being owned by millions of people worldwide. A perusal of detainee records demonstrates that such 'evidence' is often the sole reason for the continued detention of an individual, with no evidence of any crime ever being committed.

Donald Rumsfield's assertion that the Guantanamo detainees are "the worst of the worst" is not only groundless, it tacitly implies they are not worthy or deserving of a fair trial, a right which all civilised peoples can agree on. Human rights organisations have likened the kidnap of so-called "enemy combatants" to the slave trade, only people are kidnapped, bought, sold, and tortured to satisfy a fearful population that 'something is being done' about 'terrorism'; that 'justice' is prevailing. The end result, however, is the loss of the very values that are supposedly being defended by the 'war on terror'.

Torture 'Allegations'

Prisoners and ex-detainees in Guantanamo have been held in extreme solitary confinement for periods exceeding a year; deprived of sleep for days and weeks; exposed to prolonged temperature extremes; and subjected to severe sensory deprivation. Photos and video material shows detainees shackled and hooded. Some also show beating, kicking, punching, stripping and the forced shaving of beards, hair and eyebrows by the small scale riot squad when detainees resisted. Interrogation techniques approved for use at Guantanamo include isolation for up to 30 days, 28-hour interrogations, extreme and prolonged stress positions, such as short-shackling, sleep deprivation, sensory assaults, forced deprivation of clothing, hooding, and the use of dogs. The Tipton Three have made a statement after their release saying that, during their time in prison, they saw a mentally ill inmate being beaten, and another man left brain-damaged after a beating by soldiers as punishment for attempting suicide.

In early 2007, human rights lawyers Brent Mickum and Clive Stafford Smith released a statement saying that their client Bisher al-Rawi, one of the 9 remaining British resident detainees, is suffering from Secure Housing Unit Psychosis, a condition noted to affect prisoners on death row. Al-Rawi is an Iraqi who fled Saddam Hussein's dictatorship as a child and settled in Britain. Alone of his family, he retained citizenship of Iraq in the hope that one day he would be able to claim the family's abandoned property. He has never been charged. Mickum has stated that "Bisher's treatment is designed to achieve a single objective: to make him lose his mind." Human rights groups have noted that releasing tortured prisoners who are clearly innocent could further undermine the US government's legitimacy in the so-called 'war on terror', thus there is a distinct incentive to ensure that prisoners are either never released or, at least, reduced to a state where they can never tell of the atrocities committed against them.

Suicide or Murder?

3 men died at Guantanamo Bay in June 2006. The US military and government were quick to label these deaths as 'suicides'. However, former Guantanamo detainees, including 9 British citizens, claim that they were, almost certainly, killings caused by excessive force used by US guards there. The US administration described the deaths as "an act of asymmetrical warfare" and a "PR stunt" by al-Qaeda operatives being held at Guantanamo. This is possibly the most offensive and insensitive thing the military has said to date. "There is no way to commit suicide at Guantanamo," said Mamdouh Habib, former Guantanamo prisoner. "We were not only under constant surveillance, but there were no points in the cells to hang anything, let alone a person."

Beyond Guantanamo

According to Reprieve, a UK-based charity that represents 30 Guantanamo detainees, their clients were detained and tortured in other countries as well, including CIA 'secret prisons' in Europe, prior to arriving in Guantanamo. These include Morocco, Egypt, Jordan and Afghanistan. The extent to which governments other than the US are complicit in so-called extra-ordinary rendition is shocking. Conservative estimates made by Congressional Quarterly in August put the figure of extra-judicial detainees at 14,000. Of these, only 500 were in Guantanamo. Another 300 were said to be held in Bagram airforce base, which is Guantanamo's lesser-known twin in Afghanistan, but where the conditions are far worse. Detainees reportedly receive no legal representation and the press have no access. CQ also estimated that there were 12,000 extra-judicial prisoners held in Iraq (that is, held without trial or access to their families) and about 100 held in 'other places'.

[DanTheFoxBhoy]

Was shopping in Nottingham yesterday and lots of youngsters were wearing the orange suits, protesting about Guantanamo Bay and the condition of the place that holds Muslim Terrorists.

Why would they protest about this? For heavens sakes, each prisoner in there has been caught red-handed, I mean, do they think that a Muslim was taken there having been caught planting turnips FFS.

I'd rather they protest about our pathetic criminal justice system in this country and campaign for more rights for the law-abiding VICTIMS of crime.

One of our boys has been locked up at Guantanamo Bay for 5 years.

Hasn't even been charged.

Rapists get better treatment than this.

Just another example of how the US is incapable of cleaning up after itself.

[James.]

There is absolutely no doubt that the gung-ho, knee-jerk, "free-world" Americans have locked up, interrogated and tortured innocent people in this camp.

That is a good enough reason as any for a protest.

[Rincewind]

If they were ALL caught 'red-handed' why have they not been tried and convicted?

[The People's Hero]

If they were ALL caught 'red-handed' why have they not been tried and convicted?

Good point.

I'd consider the validity of the supposition.....

[Webbo]

If they were ALL caught 'red-handed' why have they not been tried and convicted?

they are prisoners of war, and despite what Dagenham Dave says some were captured on the battle field. it amazes me the arrogance of some people that think that all americans are so stupid that they would round up random muslims just for the sake of it. what would be the point of that?

[Zingari]

they are prisoners of war, and despite what Dagenham Dave says some were captured on the battle field. it amazes me the arrogance of some people that think that all americans are so stupid that they would round up random muslims just for the sake of it. what would be the point of that?

agreed

[l444ry]

On May 12, Tatarstan's Supreme Court found two former Guantanamo Bay detainees, Ravil Gumarov and Timur Ishmuratov, and another man, Fanis Shaikhutdinov, guilty of terrorism, sentencing them to prison terms ranging from 11 to 15 years in connection with a gas pipeline explosion.

The inmates are not all as innocent as some would like to think.

[Daggers]

they are prisoners of war, and despite what Dagenham Dave says some were captured on the battle field. it amazes me the arrogance of some people that think that all americans are so stupid that they would round up random muslims just for the sake of it. what would be the point of that?

Your statement amounts to nothing more than emotional unsupported rhetoric that infers things no one has said.

So far ffuter you have not offered one shred of what anyone would term evidence to support your far flung allegations...if you can not do so I hardly see the point in discussing the matter with you.

On May 12, Tatarstan's Supreme Court found two former Guantanamo Bay detainees, Ravil Gumarov and Timur Ishmuratov, and another man, Fanis Shaikhutdinov, guilty of terrorism, sentencing them to prison terms ranging from 11 to 15 years in connection with a gas pipeline explosion.

The inmates are not all as innocent as some would like to think.

And this means what exactly? I am assuming that your statement is correct although un-sourced...but are you trying to infer from the prosecution of three men in an unrelated location for an unrelated offence that the illegal detention of people is justified?

I'm surprised you can see the threads for the holes in that argument!

[Lineker's Left Foot]

I think you'll find they were protesting because of ignorant and unfounded attitudes like the one you opened the thread with.

Illegal imprisonment, torture and then released without charge or recompense, the only crime they are guilty of is being Muslim and looking a bit different. Seems enough to get worked up about to me.

Yes and killing our soldiers !! FFS they were hardly taken from shopping in Tesco's for carrots were they? If they're in Afghanistan or Iraq etc. fighting our soldiers, then they're guilty - SIMPLE AS. ****ing do-gooders, want to protest about increasing rights for the victims of crime in this country !!

[l444ry]

Your statement amounts to nothing more than emotional unsupported rhetoric that infers things no one has said.

So far ffuter you have not offered one shred of what anyone would term evidence to support your far flung allegations...if you can not do so I hardly see the point in discussing the matter with you.

And this means what exactly? I am assuming that your statement is correct although un-sourced...but are you trying to infer from the prosecution of three men in an unrelated location for an unrelated offence that the illegal detention of people is justified?

I'm surprised you can see the threads for the holes in that argument!

No, but by your argument are we to assume that you believe them all to be totally innocent then? There are always victims in war, alas. Just suprised that you're rabid anti-Americanism leads you to such an irrational conclusion.

[Daggers]

No, but by your argument are we to assume that you believe them all to be totally innocent then? There are always victims in war, alas. Just suprised that you're rabid anti-Americanism leads you to such an irrational conclusion.

What a ****ing stupid statement. Don't be retarded. I am neither anti-American nor have claimed to be so ~ I have a good many American friends from years having worked with them abroad.

Anti-stupid is a label I can live with.

I believe in the virtues of the legal system developed in this country since the Roman invasions ad occupation. I believe in an international system laid down and agreed to by all of the major powers. It is a system that is being ignored by the current American government.

I asked you simple questions in the pursuance of debate - I take from your reply that you have no wish to do so. Fine, it ends.

[Daggers]

Yes and killing our soldiers !! FFS they were hardly taken from shopping in Tesco's for carrots were they? If they're in Afghanistan or Iraq etc. fighting our soldiers, then they're guilty - SIMPLE AS. ****ing do-gooders, want to protest about increasing rights for the victims of crime in this country !!

Tell me Oracle - where did they get taken from then? Sources please. Can you please also provide sources of evidence for what it is you are claiming they were doing? I strongly suggest you do some reading on the matter before venturing such forthright opinions.

The detainees are not members of a force captured during conflict, bearing arms. They were not fighting.

[l444ry]

What a ****ing stupid statement. Don't be retarded. I am neither anti-American nor have claimed to be so ~ I have a good many American friends from years having worked with them abroad.

Anti-stupid is a label I can live with.

I believe in the virtues of the legal system developed in this country since the Roman invasions ad occupation. I believe in an international system laid down and agreed to by all of the major powers. It is a system that is being ignored by the current American government.

I asked you simple questions in the pursuance of debate - I take from your reply that you have no wish to do so. Fine, it ends.

Ohhhhhh....very touchy aren't we? How come you can never enter into a discussion without being insulting?

My point, which I thought was bleeding obvious, was exactly as written - that not all the inmates are the sweet innocent peacemongers that they are painted to be by left-wing rags and magazines.

Incidentally, which Muslim country's human rights and legal system do you suggest America should adopt for Guantanamo Bay?

[Zingari]

No, but by your argument are we to assume that you believe them all to be totally innocent then? There are always victims in war, alas. Just suprised that you're rabid anti-Americanism leads you to such an irrational conclusion.

agreed ; why do so many people assume that the US military are so vindictive that they have just randomly rounded up X amount of muslims for no good reason (its hardly helping as a PR exercise)

i do not know if all , some or none are guilty or innocent ; but i believe the US forces know enough to be wary of releasing them

[Daggers]

Incidentally, which Muslim country's human rights and legal system do you suggest America should adopt for Guantanamo Bay?

As posted:

"I believe in the virtues of the legal system developed in this country since the Roman invasions ad occupation. I believe in an international system laid down and agreed to by all of the major powers. It is a system that is being ignored by the current American government."

and

"I asked you simple questions in the pursuance of debate", you have still failed to justify your statements.