Matt Posted 27 May 2007 Share Posted 27 May 2007 It's understandable why you feel so bitter RedOnRed. Perhaps you preferred the terminal decline MK were in until Allen joined. And if his football is as bad as you suggest, why did your average gates go up this season even though you were in a lower league? TBF a winning team = fans crawling back, whether the way the team is play good or bad, winning = fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l444ry Posted 27 May 2007 Share Posted 27 May 2007 TBF a winning team = fans crawling back, whether the way the team is play good or bad, winning = fans. That's the point....and who was responsible for the winning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedOnRed Posted 27 May 2007 Share Posted 27 May 2007 It's understandable why you feel so bitter RedOnRed. Perhaps you preferred the terminal decline MK were in until Allen joined. And if his football is as bad as you suggest, why did your average gates go up this season even though you were in a lower league? The MK Dons were in terminal decline (as you put it) prior to Allen joining due to going into administration as they arrived in Milton Keynes and then going through the recovery process after that. Allen had a lot of money to play with at MK Dons last season, in fact it's believed to be the most in that league and to the point where he was able to sign several players from the Championship. That being the case and that he out-spent the three automatic promotion teams i'd consider it to be overall a pretty poor return. In fact both Pete Winkelman (the chairman) and Martin Allen have confessed what everyone else already knows in that The Dons should have gone up. I can't comment on the average gates going up under Allen. All I can say is that if it did it must be very marginal as I haven't noticed a significant increase and the main reason for an increase would be because we weren't languishing at the foot of the table as per previous seasons. TBF a winning team = fans crawling back, whether the way the team is play good or bad, winning = fans. Not always the case. Sheffield United had one of highest average gates in the Premiership but I should think if you asked Sheffield and Newcastle United fans would they rather have one of the highest average gates in the league or material success they'd probably say the latter. I don't mean to appear bitter, i'm just genuinely surprised, that, under the circumstances, after failing to win promotion for us he's gone up two dvisions and received managerial promotion to yourselves. After all, when he walked out at Brentford after failing twice in the play offs he went down one division to the MK Dons...that seemed to make sense. You lot deserve to go back up and I hope you do. I just think you could've done better managerially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Posted 27 May 2007 Share Posted 27 May 2007 Here are my points. A manager that acheives the playoffs but then fails promotion isnt a bad manager, ultimately they are a lottery and league form often goes out the window hence 3rd placed teams rarely winning playoffs. Brian little needed 3 attempts to get us up but he was still a great manager the club before he came was in a vastly different position. Keeping a manager is often about luck if you not one of the big few clubs, if the manager is successful the chances are someone will come in for him it has happened to us numerous times. Had he stayed with you the chances are you would have finished automatic next year as he would have an established squad whilst dont forget he did surgery on it this year meaning it had to gel etc. Believe me I would rather have pissed of players playing well then happy players losing games, they get paid a decent chunk of cash and dont get paid to be happy they get paid to perform on the pitch. If it takes clapped out buses and third rate hotels to help bring them down to earth then I am happy for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedOnRed Posted 27 May 2007 Share Posted 27 May 2007 Here are my points.A manager that acheives the playoffs but then fails promotion isnt a bad manager, ultimately they are a lottery and league form often goes out the window hence 3rd placed teams rarely winning playoffs. Brian little needed 3 attempts to get us up but he was still a great manager the club before he came was in a vastly different position. Keeping a manager is often about luck if you not one of the big few clubs, if the manager is successful the chances are someone will come in for him it has happened to us numerous times. Had he stayed with you the chances are you would have finished automatic next year as he would have an established squad whilst dont forget he did surgery on it this year meaning it had to gel etc. Believe me I would rather have pissed of players playing well then happy players losing games, they get paid a decent chunk of cash and dont get paid to be happy they get paid to perform on the pitch. If it takes clapped out buses and third rate hotels to help bring them down to earth then I am happy for it. You make some interesting points, but I just don't understand why Leicester have come in for Allen. I'm pretty certain that just about every manager you've had before has had a record of achievement and delivering in some sort of way. Even Worthington gained promotion with Norwich and all the others have had a fairly solid record. Allen on the other hand has failed 3 times in the play offs in the lower divisions and then walked. By the way, most of the comments Allen made in his arrival speech to Leicester he used at the Dons. All the stuff about having laughs along the way and the ground being sold out are lines he seems to be making a habit off. Well the ground was sold out a few times and you'll have to ask the players how much they laughed. Allen's passion isn't at question, but many managers have passion as a basic prerequisite of management. I'm just concerned that your chairman is over prioritising the need of passion over actual achievement and ability. I'll certainly watch the Leicester results with interest next season and hopefully will be able to come on here and say well done Leicester on automatic promotion with a big slice of humble pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l444ry Posted 28 May 2007 Share Posted 28 May 2007 You make some interesting points, but I just don't understand why Leicester have come in for Allen.I'm pretty certain that just about every manager you've had before has had a record of achievement and delivering in some sort of way. Even Worthington gained promotion with Norwich and all the others have had a fairly solid record. Allen on the other hand has failed 3 times in the play offs in the lower divisions and then walked. By the way, most of the comments Allen made in his arrival speech to Leicester he used at the Dons. All the stuff about having laughs along the way and the ground being sold out are lines he seems to be making a habit off. Well the ground was sold out a few times and you'll have to ask the players how much they laughed. Allen's passion isn't at question, but many managers have passion as a basic prerequisite of management. I'm just concerned that your chairman is over prioritising the need of passion over actual achievement and ability. I'll certainly watch the Leicester results with interest next season and hopefully will be able to come on here and say well done Leicester on automatic promotion with a big slice of humble pie. You keep saying that you don't know why Leicester came in for Martin Allen, but you do know and are in denial but won't accept it. By the way, I like the way you reply to posters on this forum. You are a credit on that score and it all leads to a better discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedOnRed Posted 28 May 2007 Share Posted 28 May 2007 You keep saying that you don't know why Leicester came in for Martin Allen, but you do know and are in denial but won't accept it. By the way, I like the way you reply to posters on this forum. You are a credit on that score and it all leads to a better discussion. Cheers for that. Although I do feel like i'm (understandably) peeing against the wind a bit...but only to be expected... The thing is, I was having almost identical chats with Brentford fans a year ago when they were busy saying the same things i'm saying now. Self denial on my part aside, if you can tell me why Leicester came in for Allen please let me know? Was it for... His only record to date is failing in the play offs in the lower leagues with both Brentford and The Dons. Is that the reason why? Now there's no way on earth i'd ask the same question about Martin O'Neil or Micky Adams. Unless you've been stuck in a space station orbiting the earth for the past 12 years - their record prior to joining the Foxes was self evident and doesn't need explaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Fox Posted 28 May 2007 Share Posted 28 May 2007 I've noticed that Martin Allen seems to like wearing different coloured wrist bands a lot? Anyone know why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Posted 28 May 2007 Share Posted 28 May 2007 You make some interesting points, but I just don't understand why Leicester have come in for Allen.I'm pretty certain that just about every manager you've had before has had a record of achievement and delivering in some sort of way. Even Worthington gained promotion with Norwich and all the others have had a fairly solid record. Allen on the other hand has failed 3 times in the play offs in the lower divisions and then walked. By the way, most of the comments Allen made in his arrival speech to Leicester he used at the Dons. All the stuff about having laughs along the way and the ground being sold out are lines he seems to be making a habit off. Well the ground was sold out a few times and you'll have to ask the players how much they laughed. Allen's passion isn't at question, but many managers have passion as a basic prerequisite of management. I'm just concerned that your chairman is over prioritising the need of passion over actual achievement and ability. I'll certainly watch the Leicester results with interest next season and hopefully will be able to come on here and say well done Leicester on automatic promotion with a big slice of humble pie. So he hasnt won anything but I would call taking a side on a downward spiral and making it win consistently a achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedOnRed Posted 29 May 2007 Share Posted 29 May 2007 So he hasnt won anything but I would call taking a side on a downward spiral and making it win consistently a achievement. I suppose so, but he failed his objective. If you get a disproportionately large budget to use and a mission to get automatic promotion then that's the expectation. If you lot are happy with just winning more games then hopefully he'll manage that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 29 May 2007 Share Posted 29 May 2007 I suppose so, but he failed his objective.If you get a disproportionately large budget to use and a mission to get automatic promotion then that's the expectation. If you lot are happy with just winning more games then hopefully he'll manage that for you. There are a lot of people who have lost sight of where we have been for the past 3 years. In the shit, so if next season we win more games than we lose then that will be a marked improvement and our fans would have snapped anyone's hand off who could offer that given the situation we've been in. Our club has no right to expect to challenge for automatic promotion, even if we now have a few quid to spend. If Allen does what he's done at Barnet, Brentford and you lot then he'll have done a remarkable job in such little time. Took over a struggling club and got them in to the play-offs in his first full season there. All Leicester fans would lap that up. If we lost in the play-offs it would be hard to take, but i'd rather we get the chance to lose in the play-offs than finish 19th and feel like running on the pitch every game to chin whoever I run past first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets Be having You Posted 29 May 2007 Share Posted 29 May 2007 There are a lot of people who have lost sight of where we have been for the past 3 years. In the shit, so if next season we win more games than we lose then that will be a marked improvement and our fans would have snapped anyone's hand off who could offer that given the situation we've been in.Our club has no right to expect to challenge for automatic promotion, even if we now have a few quid to spend. If Allen does what he's done at Barnet, Brentford and you lot then he'll have done a remarkable job in such little time. Took over a struggling club and got them in to the play-offs in his first full season there. All Leicester fans would lap that up. If we lost in the play-offs it would be hard to take, but i'd rather we get the chance to lose in the play-offs than finish 19th and feel like running on the pitch every game to chin whoever I run past first. Agree m8 :worship: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted 29 May 2007 Share Posted 29 May 2007 There are a lot of people who have lost sight of where we have been for the past 3 years. In the shit, so if next season we win more games than we lose then that will be a marked improvement and our fans would have snapped anyone's hand off who could offer that given the situation we've been in.Our club has no right to expect to challenge for automatic promotion, even if we now have a few quid to spend. If Allen does what he's done at Barnet, Brentford and you lot then he'll have done a remarkable job in such little time. Took over a struggling club and got them in to the play-offs in his first full season there. All Leicester fans would lap that up. If we lost in the play-offs it would be hard to take, but i'd rather we get the chance to lose in the play-offs than finish 19th and feel like running on the pitch every game to chin whoever I run past first. That last line made me chuckle, but everything you said was a hundred per cent spot on. I think some people don't realise how much of a major achievement making the play-offs would be. Like your new sig Ric, but the Illic rumour has gone quiet since it surfaced... still really hope it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red1 Posted 29 May 2007 Share Posted 29 May 2007 That last line made me chuckle, but everything you said was a hundred per cent spot on. I think some people don't realise how much of a major achievement making the play-offs would be. I agree with you. The expectation at MK was of automatic promotion, especially with the money spent, second only to Peterborough I believe. The team form was patchy, losing to teams that should have been beaten, and losing or drawing from winning positions. It did seem at times that the only way to kick start the team was for them to go one goal down. The play off game was disappointing, to say the least, but not unexpected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simi Posted 29 May 2007 Share Posted 29 May 2007 Like your new sig Ric, but the Illic rumour has gone quiet since it surfaced... still really hope it happens. As have a lot of the 'rumours' that have been branded around. Looks like it will be another week or so before we have anything confirmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Posted 31 May 2007 Share Posted 31 May 2007 and what happened to brentford after he left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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