You show em Stearman

[Fez of Mahrez]

the point was made that Stearman's goals are an irrelevance, the counter point was made that attacking full backs that can chip in with goals are like goldust

As far as I can see, he's played right-back for the majority of the season and scored one goal from open play.

[Manwell Pablo]

Stearmans goal return for us is pretty average for a "attacking" full back averaging at about 3 goals a season.

He also creates next to no goals.

He's had a shit load of abuse for about 4 weeks and now because he's scored, we're all talking about how important he is to us, as important as Roberto Carlos was to Brasil or Gary Neville was to Manchester United.

If you are not saying this, I'd like to know why bring up the names.

For once, can we stop judgeing players on one off games. He's not been great this season and there is definatley room for improvement and tbh know we're back to 4-4-2 I can see him struggling to hold on to his place.

[Finn Claw]

He was never and never will be a good wing-back, his crossing is nowhere near good enough to really be called an attacking full back in my opinion (Neville mention above crosses a ball better than most wingers). Hopefully we will continue to play 4-4-2 and stearman will be given some protection / help from whoever is playing right wing.

He is not as good or as bad as half the people on here think. I'd quite like to see Chambers at right-back, hopefully those two fighting for one spot will raise both of their games.

[Thracian]

Stearmans goal return for us is pretty average for a "attacking" full back averaging at about 3 goals a season.

He also creates next to no goals.

He's had a shit load of abuse for about 4 weeks and now because he's scored, we're all talking about how important he is to us, as important as Roberto Carlos was to Brasil or Gary Neville was to Manchester United.

If you are not saying this, I'd like to know why bring up the names.

For once, can we stop judgeing players on one off games. He's not been great this season and there is definatley room for improvement and tbh know we're back to 4-4-2 I can see him struggling to hold on to his place.

You're catching the same bug as others - making exaggerated statements to justify what is otherwise fair point of view.

No-one suggested Stearman was anything like as important to us as Neville is to Manchester United - Neville and others were mentioned to emphasise how important attacking full-backs are and that full-backs are NOT just employed to defend.

A point I wish we'd learned three two seasons ago.

Given that we have strikers who score so infrequently and have done for a while, contributions from our full-backs and centre-backs have been vital to our survival.

Stearman has rightly been criticised for his performances of late but the fact remains that he has played a part in the meanest defence in the Championship and, while I would have replaced him with Chambers, I'm by no means sure I'd have been right and I certainly wouldn't have wanted to be without Stearman's goal on Saturday.

Going to 4-4-2 could as easily make his life easier rather than harder but I've an open mind. I am perfectly sure however that Stearman is capable of being an effective full-back within the right system and with the right encouragement. Whether he will show that consistently I don't know.

But what I do know is that NO-ONE else at City right now has shown they can do better. Certainly not Kenton who, although doing well enough in his limited appearances for the first team this season, has hardly shone previously in any position including right back.

And certainly not Chambers, who's not played there for any period, Kaebi, who's been awful at right back, Maybury who's had a mixed season in various positions for the reserves or N'Gotty who's been okay but hardly posed any sort of attacking threat.

Change for its own sake makes little sense at all to me while our defence is being so effective.

[Manwell Pablo]

You're catching the same bug as others - making exaggerated statements to justify what is otherwise fair point of view.

No-one suggested Stearman was anything like as important to us as Neville is to Manchester United - Neville and others were mentioned to emphasise how important attacking full-backs are and that full-backs are NOT just employed to defend.

A point I wish we'd learned three two seasons ago.

Given that we have strikers who score so infrequently and have done for a while, contributions from our full-backs and centre-backs have been vital to our survival.

Stearman has rightly been criticised for his performances of late but the fact remains that he has played a part in the meanest defence in the Championship and, while I would have replaced him with Chambers, I'm by no means sure I'd have been right and I certainly wouldn't have wanted to be without Stearman's goal on Saturday.

Going to 4-4-2 could as easily make his life easier rather than harder but I've an open mind. I am perfectly sure however that Stearman is capable of being an effective full-back within the right system and with the right encouragement. Whether he will show that consistently I don't know.

But what I do know is that NO-ONE else at City right now has shown they can do better. Certainly not Kenton who, although doing well enough in his limited appearances for the first team this season, has hardly shone previously in any position including right back.

And certainly not Chambers, who's not played there for any period, Kaebi, who's been awful at right back, Maybury who's had a mixed season in various positions for the reserves or N'Gotty who's been okay but hardly posed any sort of attacking threat.

Change for its own sake makes little sense at all to me while our defence is being so effective.

No, I'm not, your mentioning Gary Neville, who is a compleltely different type of player to Richard Stearman. Gary Neville when going forward is fantastic, and can cross a ball, the nearest thing we have to Gary Neville is Alan Maybury when playing on song. However Gary Neville very rarely scores, in fact off the top of my head I bet he's scored fewer goals in this his 10 + years playing for Manchester United than Stearman has in his three/four on and off seasons in our first team.

However Neville provides suppport can cross a ball as good as anyone and is a fantastic defender. Stearmans is/has none of these things.

Stearman, like alot of academy graduates excluding Gradel (and this includes Wesolowski) is a pretty basic footballer in terms of ability.

I wouldn't call Stearman a competent attacking full back or a competent defender at the moment, just someone who gets in the box frequently at set pieces and knocks in the occasional goal, that doesn't justify a place over James Chambers who impressed under Martin Allen at right back, and has been promoted from this division twice playing at righ back.

[Fez of Mahrez]

I think it's natural that Thracian's defence of young players will go a bit too far every now and then but it was good to see a team with an average age of about 23/24 play so well on Saturday. Only four players in that team were older than me.

[davieG]

I think it's natural that Thracian's defence of young players will go a bit too far every now and then but it was good to see a team with an average age of about 23/24 play so well on Saturday. Only four players in that team were older than me.

Only Milan was older than me

[Manwell Pablo]

I think it's natural that Thracian's defence of young players will go a bit too far every now and then but it was good to see a team with an average age of about 23/24 play so well on Saturday. Only four players in that team were older than me.

Completley agree and hopefully they can all carry on improving. I'm just not going to wet myself over one good performance though as those same players are still underperforming in the league as a whole and still lack any kind of consistancy. Theres still alot of work left to do.

[Dames]

I think it's natural that Thracian's defence of young players will go a bit too far every now and then but it was good to see a team with an average age of about 23/24 play so well on Saturday. Only four players in that team were older than me.

I find it funny that he will go to any lengths to defend them no matter how poor they play he'll throw in stats that are usually down to other players aswell.

Yet he writes off a little foreigner thats by all accounts of people who have watched him play has yet to play in his proper position. Also Thrac stat attack!Kaebi set up a goal in the first team playing this role (Albeit a throw in to De Vries but following the rules Thracianology it counts)

[Jimmy]

it really annoys me that people say Chambers impressed under Allen at right back, when in actuality he didn't even complete a full 90 mins there getting injured on the opening day only returning around the re-arranged Forest game, yes he is the better right back but to say he impressed there is hypocritical of you saying Stearman has had 1 decent game.

i would prefer Chambers to Stearman but he hasn't shown over a sustained period of games that he is better

[Manwell Pablo]

it really annoys me that people say Chambers impressed under Allen at right back, when in actuality he didn't even complete a full 90 mins there getting injured on the opening day only returning around the re-arranged Forest game, yes he is the better right back but to say he impressed there is hypocritical of you saying Stearman has had 1 decent game.

i would prefer Chambers to Stearman but he hasn't shown over a sustained period of games that he is better

I'm going to do a Thracian now and claim pre season friendlies .

[mancunianfox]

I'm going to do a Thracian now and claim pre season friendlies .

Manwell! You dirty hypocrite

[Manwell Pablo]

it really annoys me that people say Chambers impressed under Allen at right back, when in actuality he didn't even complete a full 90 mins there getting injured on the opening day only returning around the re-arranged Forest game, yes he is the better right back but to say he impressed there is hypocritical of you saying Stearman has had 1 decent game.

i would prefer Chambers to Stearman but he hasn't shown over a sustained period of games that he is better

Actually I don't need to claim pre season friendlies, as he played a part in the Palace game and I think he started the Watford game

EDIT: Sorry he came on against Watford as well. Still he played near enough every league game under Allen.

[Bert]

You're catching the same bug as others - making exaggerated statements to justify what is otherwise fair point of view.

No-one suggested Stearman was anything like as important to us as Neville is to Manchester United - Neville and others were mentioned to emphasise how important attacking full-backs are and that full-backs are NOT just employed to defend.

A point I wish we'd learned three two seasons ago.

Given that we have strikers who score so infrequently and have done for a while, contributions from our full-backs and centre-backs have been vital to our survival.

Stearman has rightly been criticised for his performances of late but the fact remains that he has played a part in the meanest defence in the Championship and, while I would have replaced him with Chambers, I'm by no means sure I'd have been right and I certainly wouldn't have wanted to be without Stearman's goal on Saturday.

Going to 4-4-2 could as easily make his life easier rather than harder but I've an open mind. I am perfectly sure however that Stearman is capable of being an effective full-back within the right system and with the right encouragement. Whether he will show that consistently I don't know.

But what I do know is that NO-ONE else at City right now has shown they can do better. Certainly not Kenton who, although doing well enough in his limited appearances for the first team this season, has hardly shone previously in any position including right back.

And certainly not Chambers, who's not played there for any period, Kaebi, who's been awful at right back, Maybury who's had a mixed season in various positions for the reserves or N'Gotty who's been okay but hardly posed any sort of attacking threat.

Change for its own sake makes little sense at all to me while our defence is being so effective.

So your using his reserve team performances? Everyone is getting judged on their first team performances, so when/if Kaebi gets his chance, judge him then.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Actually I don't need to claim pre season friendlies, as he played a part in the Palace game and I think he started the Watford game

Pretty sure he came on as sub in the Watford game, might be wrong, can't be arsed to check and I'm feeling dangerous.

Actually, if you remember him playing then he must have started cos you got chucked out at half-time. :D

[Manwell Pablo]

Pretty sure he came on as sub in the Watford game, might be wrong, can't be arsed to check and I'm feeling dangerous.

Actually, if you remember him playing then he must have started cos you got chucked out at half-time. :D

no he didn't he came on just checked it. Must of seen it on SSN.

[Dames]

So your using his reserve team performances? Everyone is getting judged on their first team performances, so when/if Kaebi gets his chance, judge him then.

And when he got his little chance he set up a goal and he only played 15 minutes, so using Thracianology Kaebi (statisically) could set up 6 goals a game.

[Jimmy]

Actually I don't need to claim pre season friendlies, as he played a part in the Palace game and I think he started the Watford game

no the defence vs Watford was

N'Gotty McAuley Kisnorbo Mattock

he came on for Campbell against Watford after 62 mins and he was an 82nd minuet sub against Palace coming on in midfield both times

[Thracian]

No, I'm not, your mentioning Gary Neville, who is a compleltely different type of player to Richard Stearman. Gary Neville when going forward is fantastic, and can cross a ball, the nearest thing we have to Gary Neville is Alan Maybury when playing on song. However Gary Neville very rarely scores, in fact off the top of my head I bet he's scored fewer goals in this his 10 + years playing for Manchester United than Stearman has in his three/four on and off seasons in our first team.

However Neville provides suppport can cross a ball as good as anyone and is a fantastic defender. Stearmans is/has none of these things.

Stearman, like alot of academy graduates excluding Gradel (and this includes Wesolowski) is a pretty basic footballer in terms of ability.

I wouldn't call Stearman a competent attacking full back or a competent defender at the moment, just someone who gets in the box frequently at set pieces and knocks in the occasional goal, that doesn't justify a place over James Chambers who impressed under Martin Allen at right back, and has been promoted from this division twice playing at righ back.

At no time did I say or imply that Neville scored goals - I said he "played a part in so many goals".

Chambers played very little under MA at right back. I didn't watch him at West Brom or Watford but he played 164 times in eight seasons from what I can see - or 20 games a season on average and 93 games in three years for Watford which hardly suggests he was good enough to be permanent first choice, doesn't tell me how well the defence performed with him in it and doesn't tell me why he didn't move into the Premiership as a consequence.

For some weeks now I've thought Chambers should get a chance at right back (as you well know) but that doesn't mean Stearman isn't doing a decent job as it is and especially considering the stats.

Indeed the only time I watched Chambers playing further forward as opposed to full-back - against Notts County in a pre-season friendly I think - I wasn't impressed.

My player ratings wouldn't have put Stearman's name in lights many times this season but I'm still convinced that part of the attack on RS is down to wanting the new boy in the team rather than because Stearman has in any way let us down.

As for Academy players being such "basic" footballers they've been more than basic on the way through and seem to have exceptionally well considering the unexciting team they've been drafted into.

I''ve seen little more than "basic" anyway in the Championship. Even of our recent signings I've not seen the likes of Clemence, N'Gotty, Newton, Cort, Hayes as being any more than basic and I'm also am quite sure several of our ex-Academy players have more to offer yet as they gain experience, confidence and mature into their jobs.

[Dames]

My player ratings wouldn't have put Stearman's name in lights many times this season but I'm still convinced that part of the attack on RS is down to wanting the new boy in the team rather than because Stearman has in any way let us down.

As for Academy players being such "basic" footballers they've been more than basic on the way through and seem to have exceptionally well considering the unexciting team they've been drafted into.

Come off it, Stearman is an integral part of that unexciting team.

When was the last time he played a killer ball down the line or delievered a telling cross or for that matter a simple pass into midfield.

All he does is lump it upto the little strikers.

Stats are not everything.

Why not find out his pass completetion rate or Successful tackles percentage instead of using stats for the whole of the team?

[Thracian]

I find it funny that he will go to any lengths to defend them no matter how poor they play he'll throw in stats that are usually down to other players aswell.

Yet he writes off a little foreigner thats by all accounts of people who have watched him play has yet to play in his proper position. Also Thrac stat attack!Kaebi set up a goal in the first team playing this role (Albeit a throw in to De Vries but following the rules Thracianology it counts)

He's welcome to his throw-in. What's he played? Something like nine games thus far and that throw-in plus a few reasonable blocks is about the sum total of his effective contribution and that goes alongside at least four goals against that were diirectly or partially down to him.

If he's made a case for you he certainly hasn't for me.

[Manwell Pablo]

At no time did I say or imply that Neville scored goals - I said he "played a part in so many goals".

Chambers played very little under MA at right back. I didn't watch him at West Brom or Watford but he played 164 times in eight seasons from what I can see - or 20 games a season on average and 93 games in three years for Watford which hardly suggests he was good enough to be permanent first choice, doesn't tell me how well the defence performed with him in it and doesn't tell me why he didn't move into the Premiership as a consequence.

For some weeks now I've thought Chambers should get a chance at right back (as you well know) but that doesn't mean Stearman isn't doing a decent job as it is and especially considering the stats.

Indeed the only time I watched Chambers playing further forward as opposed to full-back - against Notts County in a pre-season friendly I think - I wasn't impressed.

My player ratings wouldn't have put Stearman's name in lights many times this season but I'm still convinced that part of the attack on RS is down to wanting the new boy in the team rather than because Stearman has in any way let us down.

As for Academy players being such "basic" footballers they've been more than basic on the way through and seem to have exceptionally well considering the unexciting team they've been drafted into.

I''ve seen little more than "basic" anyway in the Championship. Even of our recent signings I've not seen the likes of Clemence, N'Gotty, Newton, Cort, Hayes as being any more than basic and I'm also am quite sure several of our ex-Academy players have more to offer yet as they gain experience, confidence and mature into their jobs.

I agree this division is full of basic player, but I think we have some players here do have something about them, some down to their abilty, some down to other attributes (like weso) but I don't think Stearman has been one of them, I don't even know why we're having this arguement you yourself have said you want to see Chambers in at right back and that Stearmans performances have not been brilliant (match rating comment)

[Dames]

He's welcome to his throw-in. What's he played? Something like nine games thus far and that throw-in plus a few reasonable blocks is about the sum total of his effective contribution and that goes alongside at least four goals against that were diirectly or partially down to him.

If he's made a case for you he certainly hasn't for me.

We are on about 1st team appearances here.

Thats what counts and in his 15 minutes he set up a goal so he's done the business.

My Thracianology is better than yours

[Thracian]

I agree this division is full of basic player, but I think we have some players here do have something about them, some down to their abilty, some down to other attributes (like weso) but I don't think Stearman has been one of them, I don't even know why we're having this arguement you yourself have said you want to see Chambers in at right back and that Stearmans performances have not been brilliant (match rating comment)

If Stearman had been dropped a month ago or even after the Burnley game there would be no certainly his replacement would have been any better but he could hardly have grumbled.

But there's no way I would drop him after a goal and a clean sheet in a 4-4-2 formation and after arguably one of our best performances this season given that we were away from home against a team at the top end of the table.

I'd have felt exactly the same way had Chambers been the right back.

[Fez of Mahrez]

no the defence vs Watford was

N'Gotty McAuley Kisnorbo Mattock

Does that mean Thracian's stat about Saturday being the first game we've won with Mattock in the team is a load of bollocks?