Fez of Mahrez Posted 24 February 2008 Posted 24 February 2008 I watch other teams on TV or even fucking Northampton and for some reason they think it's a better idea if they have a 6 ft 3 centre forward to get the whole team moving forward, to play a winger with pace who can beat his opponent and get a cross in for said 6 ft 3 striker to attack. I didn't see a lot of Derby last season but I can almost guarantee that Steve Howard didn't score 17 goals for them without a few crosses into the box. Football, like most games, is all about percentages - of how likely it is that a particular approach is going to work. If the best we can do with supposedly £3m worth of strikers in this league is to lump it up to Howard - and hope that a) he wins the header, b) it goes in the general direction of DJ, c) DJ actually realises he's a professional footballer, d) DJ reads the flick, e) DJ controls it under pressure from bigger, stronger defenders and f) all of this happening 30 yards out actually results somehow in a chance on goal - then I really worry for us. All the approach play is 30 yards or more out. The vast majority of Howard's game is played in front of the back four. What happened to a big centre-forward leading the line with crosses coming in and central midfielders joining to offer another option? Has that been outlawed by the FA or what? When was the last time one of our wingers beat someone for pace? I think it's a disgrace that Hayes and Gradel are both out on loan. I don't care how old they are, how many games they've played at whatever level, whether they're from our Academy or someone else's or cost £2m or cost fuck all, it's absolute arrogance of the highest order to say they are picking up worthwhile experience while we continue to struggle in this league, 99% of which is down to our ability to create chances. Even if they were just coming off the bench, at least it would be a different option - someone to run at the opposition and worry them late in the game - any kind of threat at all. But no, we've got Barry Hayles. It's embarrassing. By sending them on loan the club is saying we are better than them at the moment, that we have no need for them, that they are beneath us and need to learn before they earn the chance to play in our team. What a joke. They don't have to be amazing - look at someone like Jamal Campbell-Ryce at Barnsley. He's not a good footballer but he'll take players on and put crosses in. Being a winger isn't about everything you do working every time - as opposed to being a centre-back for example. As a centre-back you're the last line of defence and you need to make damn sure you win that header and that you win that tackle and that you stop everyone and everything that comes into your path. Gradel might lose the ball a few times or shoot wildly over the top from outside the box on occasions but you live with that if it means someone in your team who will take a player on and give his marker something to think about every time he gets the ball. It's bad enough at the moment that I wish Levi was fit. He's not going to make it at any level higher than where we are at the moment but at least he runs at players and puts the odd decent ball in. If players like Porter and Hammond were going to be considered unworthy of a place in our team this season then we needed to make bloody sure with our millions and millions of pounds we've spent that we bought players who did their job better than they did. I wouldn't mind if we were making chances and losing, that we could worry a team as bone-crushingly mediocre as Coventry and things didn't go our way. For Holloway though to say in the press that a blocked shot from distance and a pretty standard penalty decision is the reason we lost is pathetic. If all this is sound rather Thracianistic, I would just say that I don't disagree with him much - just that slow, run-of-the-mill left-backs and central midfielders are the answer or have ever created any more from open play than anyone else ever does when playing in those positions - and I would appeal to him not to mention either of those players in response to this because we have to read about them enough in every other thread. This is the key point. Whatever the answer is, it's not what we saw yesterday. Now Holloway can keep saying they're good enough to win with that team away from home all he likes but that reflects worse on him than it does on the players. If he can't motivate and organise them for an away game then fans will start to question, as some already have, whether it's worth travelling hundreds of miles to see a team that the manager has already openly admitted can't seem to be bothered to play away from home.
Jon the Hat Posted 24 February 2008 Posted 24 February 2008 Yes. You know what though? It is slowly dawning on me that the reason Ollie (or insert name of last 6 managers here) do not have the confidence to try these kids is that they are under so much pressure so quickly. If Ollie knew absolutely 100% that he had a job for the next 18months I suspect he would do things differently. But as it is half the fans are on his back and the media have Milan's finger on the trigger. What a joke. If we get rid then what hope has the next bloke got of a minute without that kind of pressure to think. At least if you play the "best" available players you cannot get blamed for not doing that.
Thracian Posted 24 February 2008 Posted 24 February 2008 About all that can be said. Top post. Just what I was going to write - except it felt like I was intruding on grief. Yesterday's sorry performance clearly cut pretty deep.
Fez of Mahrez Posted 24 February 2008 Author Posted 24 February 2008 Yes. You know what though? It is slowly dawning on me that the reason Ollie (or insert name of last 6 managers here) do not have the confidence to try these kids is that they are under so much pressure so quickly. If Ollie knew absolutely 100% that he had a job for the next 18months I suspect he would do things differently. But as it is half the fans are on his back and the media have Milan's finger on the trigger. What a joke. If we get rid then what hope has the next bloke got of a minute without that kind of pressure to think. At least if you play the "best" available players you cannot get blamed for not doing that. I think you are right, which is equally worrying. My point is not so much that they should be in the team week in week out but they should definitely have been kept as options with Howard coming in. It was one step forward, two steps back to get rid of two quick wingers and rely on unknown quantities and players playing out of position.
davieG Posted 24 February 2008 Posted 24 February 2008 Frankly we just don't play football, I watch teams in the lower leagues and I find myself saying, almost monotonously why can't we do simple things like that. Like movement off the ball when in possession Like movement when we take a throw in Like defenders looking to be available for the quick out from the goalie Like the goalie looking for quick out to his defenders Like players looking to receive a return pass Like players moving into space having passed the ball Like moving out of defence en-mass and quickly Like having bit of innovation from free kicks, corners, throw-ins Like taking the ball down on their chest or knee I see all this even in parks football but rarely see it at LCFc and haven't done for 4 years or more. It's all basic stuff, occasionally I think fook me they've finally seen the light but then the next game it's back to blind man's bluff.
Fez of Mahrez Posted 24 February 2008 Author Posted 24 February 2008 Just what I was going to write - except it felt like I was intruding on grief. Yesterday's sorry performance clearly cut pretty deep. It did to be honest. I fully understand why you're not bothering at the moment if the main reason you go is to see us attack. If it wasn't such a social thing for me I'd have cancelled my Cardiff tickets by now. Really appalling yesterday. Frankly we just don't play football, I watch teams in the lower leagues and I find myself saying, almost monotonously why can't we do simple things like that.Like movement off the ball when in possession Like movement when we take a throw in Like defenders looking to be available for the quick out from the goalie Like the goalie looking for quick out to his defenders Like players looking to receive a return pass Like players moving into space having passed the ball Like moving out of defence en-mass and quickly Like having bit of innovation from free kicks, corners, throw-ins Like taking the ball down on their chest or knee I see all this even in parks football but rarely see it at LCFc and haven't done for 4 years or more. It's all basic stuff, occasionally I think fook me they've finally seen the light but then the next game it's back to blind man's bluff. Just to pick out one positive amid a seething mass of shite, Alnwick and Clapham did that constantly yesterday - and Clapham for all his faults was the best passer available yesterday in the back four we played.
Simi Posted 24 February 2008 Posted 24 February 2008 It's incredibly frustrating. But the more worrying thing is, I still don't think that Holloway is learning from this and he still seems to be keeping faith with the same tactics that haven't paid off for us for some time now. We played like this at home for the first few months/weeks that Holloway was here. Lately however it does seem a slightly different approach at home. Yet the away approach is still an extremely negative one, and one that certainly does need to change. Time after time yesterday, also at other games this season, our "wingers" or full backs are putting the ball in early. The crosses are square as well which leaves us with so little options should Howard actually win the header. Neither Oakley or Clemence seem obliged to join the attack and it's just adding to the problems should Howard not win the header as we're left with huge gap and begging the other team to hit us on the counter attack. So many times a poor Coventry side exploited this, it was painfully obvious. A lot of what Holloway has said in the media has not been put into practice and it's becoming a problem.
davieG Posted 24 February 2008 Posted 24 February 2008 It did to be honest. I fully understand why you're not bothering at the moment if the main reason you go is to see us attack. If it wasn't such a social thing for me I'd have cancelled my Cardiff tickets by now. Really appalling yesterday.Just to pick out one positive amid a seething mass of shite, Alnwick and Clapham did that constantly yesterday - and Clapham for all his faults was the best passer available yesterday in the back four we played. Glad to hear that, it was something I'd noticed about him but the cynic in me says it will soon disappear, I remember other goalies have started off like that but soon slipped into the Leicester way.
Fez of Mahrez Posted 24 February 2008 Author Posted 24 February 2008 It's incredibly frustrating. But the more worrying thing is, I still don't think that Holloway is learning from this and he still seems to be keeping faith with the same tactics that haven't paid off for us for some time now.We played like this at home for the first few months/weeks that Holloway was here. Lately however it does seem a slightly different approach at home. Yet the away approach is still an extremely negative one, and one that certainly does need to change. Time after time yesterday, also at other games this season, our "wingers" or full backs are putting the ball in early. The crosses are square as well which leaves us with so little options should Howard actually win the header. Neither Oakley or Clemence seem obliged to join the attack and it's just adding to the problems should Howard not win the header as we're left with huge gap and begging the other team to hit us on the counter attack. So many times a poor Coventry side exploited this, it was painfully obvious. A lot of what Holloway has said in the media has not been put into practice and it's becoming a problem. 100%. Mattock was doing this all second half. It was good that he was getting the crosses in but Howard was too far from goal to get a decent header in and they were counter-attacking straight through the middle time and time again. Whether it's the strikers fault for not attacking the six-yard box or the wingers fault for not putting the ball in a more threatening area, I'm not sure. Probably a bit of both.
Jon the Hat Posted 24 February 2008 Posted 24 February 2008 Glad to hear that, it was something I'd noticed about him but the cynic in me says it will soon disappear, I remember other goalies have started off like that but soon slipped into the Leicester way. The Leicester Way. That really is a telling and worrying statement. Seems to me it is actually all about fear. We are not the only club to suffer, but we seem to have it worse than most. Terrified of trying to play attacking football and getting thumped. Terrified of getting relegated in the process. This is the only way I can think of understanding the home / away problem. Ollie is so scared of getting a 4 or 5 goal tonking away from home he can't play the same way as at home. So we never get the first goal, we concede and we give up. To be honest with this group of players lacking in confidence he might be right. If we lost by a large margin we might not recover in time to stop ourselves going down.
Jimmy Posted 24 February 2008 Posted 24 February 2008 100%. Mattock was doing this all second half. It was good that he was getting the crosses in but Howard was too far from goal to get a decent header in and they were counter-attacking straight through the middle time and time again. Whether it's the strikers fault for not attacking the six-yard box or the wingers fault for not putting the ball in a more threatening area, I'm not sure. Probably a bit of both. It must be an instruction to "get the ball in early" but it doesn't matter when you deliver it if the quality of the ball is shite, the reason Bori and Laczko looked so good on début is because they got to the buy line and put balls in, or drilled low crosses in from deeper, there is no variety in their delivery at the moment so the defenders can just line up and clear with ease
MikeyT Posted 24 February 2008 Posted 24 February 2008 Frankly we just don't play football, I watch teams in the lower leagues and I find myself saying, almost monotonously why can't we do simple things like that.Like movement off the ball when in possession Like movement when we take a throw in Like defenders looking to be available for the quick out from the goalie Like the goalie looking for quick out to his defenders Like players looking to receive a return pass Like players moving into space having passed the ball Like moving out of defence en-mass and quickly Like having bit of innovation from free kicks, corners, throw-ins Like taking the ball down on their chest or knee I see all this even in parks football but rarely see it at LCFc and haven't done for 4 years or more. It's all basic stuff, occasionally I think fook me they've finally seen the light but then the next game it's back to blind man's bluff. Exactly!!!!
Mikey Posted 24 February 2008 Posted 24 February 2008 It must be an instruction to "get the ball in early" but it doesn't matter when you deliver it if the quality of the ball is shite, the reason Bori and Laczko looked so good on début is because they got to the buy line and put balls in, or drilled low crosses in from deeper, there is no variety in their delivery at the moment so the defenders can just line up and clear with ease To be fair on Bori he hasn't actually played the last few games.
Jimmy Posted 24 February 2008 Posted 24 February 2008 To be fair on Bori he hasn't actually played the last few games. yes I know that I am referring to their performances since the Coventry home game
Guest Posted 24 February 2008 Posted 24 February 2008 Frankly we just don't play football, I watch teams in the lower leagues and I find myself saying, almost monotonously why can't we do simple things like that.Like movement off the ball when in possession Like movement when we take a throw in Like defenders looking to be available for the quick out from the goalie Like the goalie looking for quick out to his defenders Like players looking to receive a return pass Like players moving into space having passed the ball Like moving out of defence en-mass and quickly Like having bit of innovation from free kicks, corners, throw-ins Like taking the ball down on their chest or knee I see all this even in parks football but rarely see it at LCFc and haven't done for 4 years or more. It's all basic stuff, occasionally I think fook me they've finally seen the light but then the next game it's back to blind man's bluff. Thracian may not believe this, but these are the things that I've been asking during most of our recent games. I have also asked "why does it always look like the opposition have more players than us?" and "why are we never able to pick up the second ball?" I could go on...
davieG Posted 24 February 2008 Posted 24 February 2008 Thracian may not believe this, but these are the things that I've been asking during most of our recent games. I have also asked "why does it always look like the opposition have more players than us?" and "why are we never able to pick up the second ball?"I could go on... Add them to the list Lisa I could have gone on and on, there are so many basic 'things' we don't do it's like we're playing a totally different game.
Guest Posted 24 February 2008 Posted 24 February 2008 Add them to the list Lisa I could have gone on and on, there are so many basic 'things' we don't do it's like we're playing a totally different game. I thought football was supposed to be a simple game.
teblin Posted 24 February 2008 Posted 24 February 2008 The main thing that is lacking all over the park in every postition is pace. Other than Campbell i can't think of any players that are "fast". Ok we have elvis but his ankle has fell off, and also he is crap.
davieG Posted 24 February 2008 Posted 24 February 2008 The main thing that is lacking all over the park in every postition is pace.Other than Campbell i can't think of any players that are "fast". Ok we have elvis but his ankle has fell off, and also he is crap. You don't need pace if you're not moving!
davieG Posted 24 February 2008 Posted 24 February 2008 I thought football was supposed to be a simple game. Ironic
Thracian Posted 24 February 2008 Posted 24 February 2008 Thracian may not believe this, but these are the things that I've been asking during most of our recent games. I have also asked "why does it always look like the opposition have more players than us?" and "why are we never able to pick up the second ball?"I could go on... Why would I not believe you?
Guest Posted 24 February 2008 Posted 24 February 2008 Why would I not believe you? Just little nuances I may or may not have rightly picked up upon. For example, I once stated that I saw nothing wrong with building a team from the back, you took this to mean I was an exponent of negative football.
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