1st choice Goalkeeper

[Joe.]

Henderson - Eratic, unpredictable.

Martin - Eratic, unpredictable.

Not much between them if you ask me.

[Anish]

I thought for large parts of last night that Martin looked very good. Particularly on crosses. However his kicking is lop sided and the goals, well I might have expected someone like Fulop to keep at least one of them out.

Hendo is OK. He has frequent blooper days but when he plays well he is pretty solid.

I think the choice is a close one. I'd expect to still see Hendo play a fair bit.

Agreed. Yes the first goal took a deflection, but it was hardly going at lightning pace and a quality keeper would've reacted quicker.

The second goal didn't look like it went right into the corner and I don't think Martin was set and ready for the shot, so it just whizzed past him and looked spectacular. Again I might be harsh but I think another keeper may have saved it.

Hendo is not flawless either, but generally his shot stopping is quite good.

[Unit]

Did hendo even concede a goal this season? (inc pre-season?)

[Thracian]

That will be the reason we started with 3 clean sheets and finished last season as well in the same way will it?

You won't change their minds. What you said was spot on. Henderson doesn't have frequent bad days either - he drops occasional clangers like most other goalkeepers but has generally been reliable enough.

His two main problems are his kicking (much improved and Martin can't kick anyway) and in his inability to think ahead and throw the ball out quickly to feet. Far too often, by the time he's aware of a once-available throw-out it's too late.

But nothing of Martin's goalkeeping so far suggests he's an improvement whereas there was really no question in anyone's mind that Fulop was our first choice keeper when he was here.

[Alexikokopops]

You won't change their minds. What you said was spot on. Henderson doesn't have frequent bad days either - he drops occasional clangers like most other goalkeepers but has generally been reliable enough.

His two main problems are his kicking (much improved and Martin can't kick anyway) and in his inability to think ahead and throw the ball out quickly to feet. Far too often, by the time he's aware of a once-available throw-out it's too late.

But nothing of Martin's goalkeeping so far suggests he's an improvement whereas there was really no question in anyone's mind that Fulop was our first choice keeper when he was here.

WHAT?! His biggest problem is his shocking ability with aerial balls and his lack of command of his area! I know you're quite happy to judge players and managers without actually having seen them play, but you must have noticed this about Henderson? These problems which still persist if Stockport away is anything to go by. Maybe the reason we haven't conceeded goals is because the defence is still just as solid against poorer quality strikers. I can't think of many saves Henderson's actually had to make.

[davieG]

You won't change their minds. What you said was spot on. Henderson doesn't have frequent bad days either - he drops occasional clangers like most other goalkeepers but has generally been reliable enough.

His two main problems are his kicking (much improved and Martin can't kick anyway) and in his inability to think ahead and throw the ball out quickly to feet. Far too often, by the time he's aware of a once-available throw-out it's too late.

But nothing of Martin's goalkeeping so far suggests he's an improvement whereas there was really no question in anyone's mind that Fulop was our first choice keeper when he was here.

I'm surprised at your views, as for stopping goals there's not too much difference they've both had their dodgy moments and as you say neither is too clever at kicking but for someone who believes we should attack from the back and keep possession of the ball then Martin wins by a massive margin - that for me tips the balance towards Martin despite my reservations about him being a 6 month loanee.

It would be interesting to compare their pass completion records.

[Thracian]

WHAT?! His biggest problem is his shocking ability with aerial balls and his lack of command of his area! I know you're quite happy to judge players and managers without actually having seen them play, but you must have noticed this about Henderson? These problems which still persist if Stockport away is anything to go by. Maybe the reason we haven't conceeded goals is because the defence is still just as solid against poorer quality strikers. I can't think of many saves Henderson's actually had to make.

I've seen Henderson and Martin play as you well know - Henderson on stacks of occasions - and it is clear to me that you are so biased that you can't see even if you're watching.

You make it even worse by pretending our defenders are so rock solid. They've all made errors. Just as many as Henderson. It's just that Henderson's thin-air catch at Stockport looked such a ridiculous misjudgement.

I'm not arguing for one minute that Henderson is the ultimate goalkeper anyway. I thought Fulop was worth signing even at the cost, and said so at the time. But Martin is not Fulop and it seems we have swopped one goalkeeper with various faults for another with his own faults.

[Alexikokopops]

I've seen Henderson and Martin play as you well know - Henderson on stacks of occasions - and it is clear to me that you are so biased that you can't see even if you're watching.

You make it even worse by pretending our defenders are so rock solid. They've all made errors. Just as many as Henderson. It's just that Henderson's thin-air catch at Stockport looked such a ridiculous misjudgement.

I'm not arguing for one minute that Henderson is the ultimate goalkeper anyway. I thought Fulop was worth signing even at the cost, and said so at the time. But Martin is not Fulop and it seems we have swopped one goalkeeper with various faults for another with his own faults.

My main point was that you appear to have missed his main weakness. Whenever people have a misgiving about Henderson it's not his kicking or his ability to think ahead. It's his aerial ability. I'm willing to accept Henderson might be our best option, but I'm not willing to dismiss Martin just yet. He's played two games, one against Premiership opposition. You can't sit there and say "they've played two games each, Martin's conceeded more, ergo Henderson is better". I know you love your stats but I did stats for over three years at Uni and two games is definitely not a big enough sample size Plus I still can't think of many saves he's had to make this season...

[Kilworthfox]

Is it just me or does everyone that takes over at our place have something against Henderson?!

He has never done anything particuarly wrong, in fact possibly the opposite putting in regular good performances, yet the manager persists on dropping him for another goalkeeper that clearly isnt as good. I.E Logan and now Martin.

Any thoughts?

Cardiff away

[Thracian]

I'm surprised at your views, as for stopping goals there's not too much difference they've both had their dodgy moments and as you say neither is too clever at kicking but for someone who believes we should attack from the back and keep possession of the ball then Martin wins by a massive margin - that for me tips the balance towards Martin despite my reservations about him being a 6 month loanee.

It would be interesting to compare their pass completion records.

:D It doesn't tip the balance for me when we're talking about a loanee or a contract player. I wouldn't have thought it impossible for the coaches to improve the speed of Henderson's distribution and it's accuract with a bit of application but I'd agree it seems to be taking some time.

What really swings it for me at the moment is that I know Henderson is a good shot stopper. Whether Martin is I still don't know.

But you're right about me believing that attacking starts from the back which is why I sincerely doubt that I'd have had any of our current goalkeepers given the choice.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

:D It doesn't tip the balance for me when we're talking about a loaneee or a contract player. I wouldn't have thought it impossible for the coaches to improve the speed of Henderson's distribution and it's accuract with a bit of application but I'd agree it seems to be taking some time.

What really swings it for me at the moment is that I know Henderson is a good shot stopper. Whether Martin is I still don't know.

But you're right about me believing that attacking starts from the back which is why I sincerely doubt that I'd have had any of our current goalkeepers given the choice.

I think you can take it for a given that any professional keeper is a 'good shot stopper' - thats a minimum requirement. It's the bits outside the box that makes a good keeper great.

For example, a keeper with good positional sense will not necessary show that he's a 'good shot stopper' as much as one without it, as he (or she) is in the right place at the right time. A good keeper should make the job look easy!

[Bert]

I've seen Henderson and Martin play as you well know - Henderson on stacks of occasions - and it is clear to me that you are so biased that you can't see even if you're watching.

You make it even worse by pretending our defenders are so rock solid. They've all made errors. Just as many as Henderson. It's just that Henderson's thin-air catch at Stockport looked such a ridiculous misjudgement.

I'm not arguing for one minute that Henderson is the ultimate goalkeper anyway. I thought Fulop was worth signing even at the cost, and said so at the time. But Martin is not Fulop and it seems we have swopped one goalkeeper with various faults for another with his own faults.

You're right, he's Marton

[Koke]

Here are the highlights - Judge for yourselves.

[davieG]

It doesn't tip the balance for me when we're talking about a loaneee or a contract player. I wouldn't have thought it impossible for the coaches to improve the speed of Henderson's distribution and it's accuract with a bit of application but I'd agree it seems to be taking some time.

What really swings it for me at the moment is that I know Henderson is a good shot stopper. Whether Martin is I still don't know.

But you're right about me believing that attacking starts from the back which is why I sincerely doubt that I'd have had any of our current goalkeepers given the choice.

Well at the moment we can only choose between Henderson & Martin (Logan seems to have disappeared off the OS Team Profiles) as for Henderson I can't wait any longer for him to improve his distribution, he starts games sometimes with a throw or two but then it's back to hoof, he's 32 he's not going to change now.

Based on your arguments surely we should be giving Martin a chance to prove he's as good a shot stopper as Henderson which seems to be his one and only attribute.

Has our goal for ratio gone up when Martin's been playing?

[renards]

Posted similar before, its not about who's the best keeper.

Martin has been sent/allowed to come to us (top div to div 3) to get match pratice.

LFC will of insisted that he plays, if he doesn't they will take him back..simple

They don't give a monkeys about us, or us paying part of his wages, just their keepers development.

[Thracian]

Posted similar before, its not about who's the best keeper.

Martin has been sent/allowed to come to us (top div to div 3) to get match pratice.

LFC will of insisted that he plays, if he doesn't they will take him back..simple

They don't give a monkeys about us, or us paying part of his wages, just their keepers development.

Sums it up exactly.

[davieG]

Posted similar before, its not about who's the best keeper.

Martin has been sent/allowed to come to us (top div to div 3) to get match pratice.

LFC will of insisted that he plays, if he doesn't they will take him back..simple

They don't give a monkeys about us, or us paying part of his wages, just their keepers development.

Sums it up exactly.

Which is why I have doubts about choosing loanees over signed players but it doesn't cloud my views in this case that Martin has the potential to offer us much more than Henderson.

[Thracian]

Which is why I have doubts about choosing loanees over signed players but it doesn't cloud my views in this case that Martin has the potential to offer us much more than Henderson.

Not if he continues conceding at the rate he's done against Fulham and Derby Reserves - six goals in total!

[Corky]

Not if he continues conceding at the rate he's done against Fulham and Derby Reserves - six goals in total!

I know, conceding goals against Fulham is a disgrace. Lynch him!

[davieG]

Not if he continues conceding at the rate he's done against Fulham and Derby Reserves - six goals in total!

But as you well now looking at the scoreline doesn't tell it's full story especially when it comes to goalkeepers - I can't comment in detail as I saw neither game.

[Thracian]

But as you well now looking at the scoreline doesn't tell it's full story especially when it comes to goalkeepers - I can't comment in detail as I saw neither game.

You're right but the suggestion elsewhere that last night was down to the quality of Premiership opposition and that the Reserves outcome was down to a crap defence smacks of excuse-making for the sake of it.

Has Henderson let us down? No. Has Martin shone? No. Much as a part of me would like to make a case for Martin, bearing in mind Henderson's known limitations, I've seen no evidence to back one.

The difference in goals conceded by the too is emphatic whatever the opposition.

[davieG]

You're right but the suggestion elsewhere that last night was down to the quality of Premiership opposition and that the Reserves outcome was down to a crap defence smacks of excuse-making for the sake of it.

Has Henderson let us down? No. Has Martin shone? No. Much as a part of me would like to make a case for Martin, bearing in mind Henderson's known limitations, I've seen no evidence to back one.

The diference in goals conceded by the two is emphatic whatever the opposition.

Or whatever the reason

As I understand it two of them were serious deflections and one was a longish range shot of the type that we've seen Henderson concede on many an occasion.

Oh well we obviously differ on this, only time will tell what the outcome will be and we're all agreed on what that should be for LCFC

[Nath.]

First goal, beaten at his near post by a soft deflection - Shit goalkeeping.

Bullards goal, yeah had some pace on it, but it was right in front of him!

Third goal, well, did take a deflection, no one could be to blame...

But what has henderson done wrong to lose his place? It wasnt his fault we lost 3-1 to sheff weds, in fact, quite the opposite, 1-0 up and he saves a penno, then the whole team fook up, hume misses a penno, gets everyones confidence down, we lose... When the team in front of you is playing complete shite and conceding silly goals, your confidence goes out the window if your a keeper (i should know, im a keeper)...

Henderson sound be given a proper chance, simple as.

[DB11]

Is it just me or does everyone that takes over at our place have something against Henderson?!

He has never done anything particuarly wrong, in fact possibly the opposite putting in regular good performances, yet the manager persists on dropping him for another goalkeeper that clearly isnt as good. I.E Logan and now Martin.

Any thoughts?

I agree

[Paddy]

So you've managed to pick up three games in which he hasn't conceeded a goal. I say three games, I mean two because Martin played in one of those. I'm pretty sure I can pick out two games in which he's been bad. QPR away, New Years day. Should have done better for at least two of teh goals. Sheffield United away, where he let James Beattie's free kick through his hands to leave us 3-90 down after about 15 minutes. It's no coincidence that every manager we've had has looked to get a replacement goal keeper in.

Ah yes qpr new years day, poor game, also his first for 4 months. And if your talking about deflections, kevin Phillips free kick deflected off gareth mcAuley and went through Henderson. Any deflected shot would be hard for any keeper. You can't blame Henderson for deflected goal and not martin for one past him!