England V Belarus.

[Uncle Albert]

Yeah Kazakhstan! That footballing superpower!

Ranked lower than Chad! What a result!

Yea... And?

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

Failing? We just beat a decent Kazakhstan 5-1. And was it Gerrard and Lampard playing in the centre in the second half when we scored all the goals?

Thank you and goodnight.

In the words of Jose Mourinho... 'Dont change a winning team'.

I'd rather we'd have not changed the team that beat Croatia 4-1 than a team that struggles for a long period against Kazakhstan.

[Uncle Albert]

I'd rather we'd have not changed the team that beat Croatia 4-1 than a team that struggles for a long period against Kazakhstan.

We struggled to beat a shite team when Barry was in the side you idiot. Barry comes off we have Gerrard and Lampard in the middle in a 4-4-2 formation and we score 5 goals.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

We struggled to beat a shite team when Barry was in the side you idiot. Barry comes off we have Gerrard and Lampard in the middle in a 4-4-2 formation and we score 5 goals.

Yeah I know I was just making a point about "not changing a winning team" unless it involves bringing Gerrard back into the fold, apparently.

[Uncle Albert]

Yeah I know I was just making a point about "not changing a winning team" unless it involves bringing Gerrard back into the fold, apparently.

Righto.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

Righto.

We'll just see how it goes on Wednesday.

Barry and Lampard .

[purpleronnie]

But what about all the times Lampard & Gerrard played shit together?

Playing them against shit teams means nothing but when we play anyone any good thats when the gerrard+Lampard combo clearly fails.

That isnt the only reason we have done badly but its definately one of the main factors.

[Lovejoy]

[Simi]

Please, just admit, that, for the team, it might be better if Barry started.

I'm not saying that Gerrard / Lampard aren't better players than Barry, they are, but with them playing the midfield never produces.

It really seems like you have a problem accepting others opinions. :laugh:

For a game against Belarus, tell me what purpose Gareth Barry serves? That's not to say I think Gerrard and Lampard should be first choice.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

It really seems like you have a problem accepting others opinions. :laugh:

For a game against Belarus, tell me what purpose Gareth Barry serves? That's not to say I think Gerrard and Lampard should be first choice.

Albert had a similar stance involving his opinions, no?

It's all debate, of course I'm going to feel like my opinion is correct because it's what I think. In my mind, it's right.

I think that if Barry starts, we see the best of Lampard / Gerrard, and one of those two on top form that could easily unlock any Belarussian defence.

[Sparky]

Had same conversation last week did we not , Gerrard and Lampard can play together against the also rans but as soon as a decent side come along it has never fooking worked ever !!!!!!

For me when fit , Hargreaves should be partnered by 1 or the other

[lildave3]

Lest look at their club stats.

Lampard has been at his peak since the whole Russian Revolution at Chelsea, scoring goals for fun. No coincidence that his rise has been in tandem with having a world class holding midfielder behing him (first Makelele, now Essien, occaisionally Mikel).

Gerrard has been playing brilliantly for a while now, and has always had that quality holding man to support him. Hammann, Sissoko, Mascherano, Alonso, none of them particularly attacking midfielders, they allow Gerrard free license to attack.

That's why it's so simple. England play a holding midfielder, they get the best from Gerrard / Lampard.

Yes.

Crouch and Rooney up front!

Crouchs goal scoring record for England is 2nd to none

And Heskey cant be unlucky for 12 years

Behave.

[Simi]

Albert had a similar stance involving his opinions, no?

It's all debate, of course I'm going to feel like my opinion is correct because it's what I think. In my mind, it's right.

I think that if Barry starts, we see the best of Lampard / Gerrard, and one of those two on top form that could easily unlock any Belarussian defence.

So what happened when he was on the pitch during the first half? I seem to remember that we created about **** all.

Then when he went off we scored 5. A little strange perhaps. All I can remember of Barry's performance was his slack passing which often went misplaced, other than that it was no more than 5 yard passes that didn't really help to unlock anything.

I wouldn't mind seeing Hargreaves with Gerrard or Lampard, but for a game against minnows, I see no reason for Barry to play.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

So what happened when he was on the pitch during the first half? I seem to remember that we created about **** all.

Then when he went off we scored 5. A little strange perhaps. All I can remember of Barry's performance was his slack passing which often went misplaced, other than that it was no more than 5 yard passes that didn't really help to unlock anything.

I wouldn't mind seeing Hargreaves with Gerrard or Lampard, but for a game against minnows, I see no reason for Barry to play.

It's fair enough that Barry may not have had one of his best games on Saturday, but did Gerrard? Did he create any more in the first half than Barry did, bearing in mind that he's meant to be a more attack minded player?

If Barry's passing was slack Gerrard's was downright woeful bar a few excellent cross field passes.

If Gerrard/Lampard do start together, of course I's want them to play well, it's glaringly obvious that there's potential there to be one of the best partnerships in the world, but it just seems, to me, like they've had their chance and Barry, who, over the past year or so, has, for a large amount of the games he has played for England performed brilliantly, deserves a proper run in the team.

I'm not a Gareth Barry fan boy, I'm just an England fan who thinks the team is all the better for having him in it.

[Simi]

It's fair enough that Barry may not have had one of his best games on Saturday, but did Gerrard? Did he create any more in the first half than Barry did, bearing in mind that he's meant to be a more attack minded player?

If Barry's passing was slack Gerrard's was downright woeful bar a few excellent cross field passes.

If Gerrard/Lampard do start together, of course I's want them to play well, it's glaringly obvious that there's potential there to be one of the best partnerships in the world, but it just seems, to me, like they've had their chance and Barry, who, over the past year or so, has, for a large amount of the games he has played for England performed brilliantly, deserves a proper run in the team.

I'm not a Gareth Barry fan boy, I'm just an England fan who thinks the team is all the better for having him in it.

I agree that Gerrard was poor, but you've outlined the difference for yourself I think. "A few excellent cross field passes". We didn't get any of these from Gareth Barry and these can be the balls that are going to cut open defences and create us goals. When we need a goal, that's what we want/need, not Barry spraying 5 yard passes.

Plus, you've mentioned earlier that Barry should be freeing up this space for Gerrard, as the likes of Essien have done for Lampard, so it can't all be down to Gerrard creating nothing.

[Darkzzz_]

The debate goes on and on and on.........

I am all for people having there opinions. I like to have mine just like the next person does.

Matches have shown that Gerrard and Lampard have not replicated there club form at international level, but I am a believer that they can finally get it right under Capello, I like this man, he takes no nonsense and he will not buckle from fan or media pressure, his success speaks for itself.

But whilst I say that, I also think that no player should warrant a start just because of how he plays at club level and because of who he is.

So while I feel he can get the two of them working together, I also don't agree with people saying Barry is rubbish.

I am not going to get into a huge debate with the " Barry Boo Boys" but I think he does a decent job and I think every team needs someone to do the simple things, This is why I think Claude Makelele was a world class player at what he used to do, I am not comparing him and Barry, but I don't think Barry is as bad as people make out.

I think if he was a Liverpool player now, people wouldn't make a sound.

I know one thing is for sure, Capello will not be afraid to make big decisions, something many England managers have been afraid to do for a long while.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

I agree that Gerrard was poor, but you've outlined the difference for yourself I think. "A few excellent cross field passes". We didn't get any of these from Gareth Barry and these can be the balls that are going to cut open defences and create us goals. When we need a goal, that's what we want/need, not Barry spraying 5 yard passes.

Plus, you've mentioned earlier that Barry should be freeing up this space for Gerrard, as the likes of Essien have done for Lampard, so it can't all be down to Gerrard creating nothing.

I've said that Gerrard's a better player than Barry. On an off-day, he can create one moment of magic, because he is world-class. But he, by his own admission, enjoys playing with Barry, surely that's down to all the work Barry does behind him?

For England, he and Lampard just don't cut it, for me. I can understand why people may want them to start, in the hope that something might click and they'll both be forces for England, but unfortunately I just don't think it'll happen.

[Benjani]

They can play together if you alter the formation a bit.

Both are attacking midfielders, you never see either in a defensive role at their clubs.

But that asks the question, why do you need a holding/defensive midfielder at home against Kazakhstan?

There is no need, both should be pushing up all the time. Away against Belarus is another matter though. When Carrick is back to full fitness do people think Capello will start him?

[Darkzzz_]

You raise a very good point which I have said before. Against Kazakhstan we should not have to worry about a Defensive Midfielder. But against more attack minded teams you would certainly have to play one to break the play up.

I actually prefer Hargreaves over Carrick if I am honest.

[Fox You Forest]

For me when fit , Hargreaves should be partnered by 1 or the other

[RowlattsFox]

Can someone name me any good side, international or domestic, that plays two attack-minded players in the centre of midfield? Because I can't think of any. Thats not to say that either Gerrad or Lampard can't adapt but that would be changing them as players and we wouldn't see the best of them.

I'm not Barrys biggest fan, and I don't see him as a defensive midfielder anyway, not good enough in the tackle in my opinion. Hargeaves is the best defensive midfielder we have at the moment and in certain games he should play alongside or with one of Lampard/Gerrard.

I reckon Capello will go with Lampard and Gerrard on wednesday and we shall see what happends. Even if they do play well on wednesday I still think there will be games where they shouldn't be together and we have to be adaptable.

I reckon Capello will go for:

James

Brown

Ferdinand

Upson

Lescott

Wright-Phillips

Gerrard

Lampard

Walcott

Rooney

Heskey

Why is Woodgate not in the squad? Spurs are crap at the minute but I reckon he's the 3rd best centre back at the moment. I wouldn't choose Lescott at left back but got a feeling he will. I'm not sure about SWP on the left so him and Theo should swap.

[l444ry]

All this squabbling about Gerrard and Lampard misses the point as to why England are a spent force-:

Modern day footballers

This was genuinely posted on the Sheffield United website by a fan.

"I'm feeling all angry about these modern day footballers and I know why, they have gone all soft. It's because of poncy names. That's what it is.

Remember the old days when footy players kicked a fooking ball made out of ten pounds of clay stitched inside a steel reinforced leather shell with

laces made out of piano wire?

Well, in them days, players could only survive the rigours of the game because they were called names like Albert, Arthur, Bert, Harry, Bill, Eddie, Bob, Jack and Tommy. fooking tough names for tough men them was.

And what do we have now? Gareth, Jason, Wayne, Dean, Ryan, Jamie, Robbie.

Fooking tarts names they are. Great big fooking poofs. No wonder the ball's like a fooking balloon and shin pads are like slices of bread. In the old days you never saw a Len Shackleton or Billy Wright with a poofy little Sondico piece of paper down his little thin socks.

Fooking shin pads in them days was made out of library books and socks was like sackcloth.

Same with jerseys. fooking shirts with holes in 'em now so they can breathe. Yes and so Jamie's hairless chest can breathe and he doesn't get a chill. fook off..

Stanley Matthews used to dribble round Europe 's finest wearing a fooking tent and shorts cobbled together from the jacket of his demob suit. Aye, he bloody did.

No wonder players fall over whenever an opponent comes near them.

And they never used to show their arses at one another either. Can you imagine what might have happened if Don Revie had flashed his ring at Nat Lofthouse

during a City-Bolton Wanderers game? He'd have got one of them size 13 hobnail ****ers up his chuff.

Fooking therapy for stress my arse! Stan Colleymore slaps his missus about and he takes three seasons off with stress counselling. What is that all about? In the old days, it was expected for footballers to belt the old sow about a bit, especially after a bad defeat. And the old women used to expect it and so they should have, they was lucky to be married to footballers.

Ernie MeSh;...... of Port Vale got run over with a horse and cart one Friday night and still he turned out against Bradford the next day. And he scored two goals. That's cos he didn't have a poof name. Good old Ernie. It is said he broke his hip, both legs, murdered his wife and buried her under the patio and still made the England team for the home internationals.

Did he have any stress counselling? Did he bollocks!

And drugs? There was none of that in the old days. Oh no. In them days it was a quick shot of morphine before the kick off and you was lucky if you got that. By half time it had all but wore off so they pumped you full of Laudanum. None of this cocaine sniffing and shooting up class A narcotics.

Goal celebrations. Don't talk to me about goal celebrations. Crawling on the floor and thrusting their hips at the crowd. Huh, I'd have liked to have seen Cliff Bastin do that after a run down the left flank and crossing for Alex James to fire home a winner. Handshakes, that was all you got.

Sixty grand a fooking week! Ha! I wouldn't pay 'em tuppence. Two bob is what Tommy Lawton used to get.. ..a month! And Tom Finney still worked as a plumber four days a week when he was playing for England . Its true you know. Players had to work them days just to make up their money. Not like today. Stan Pearson had to clean sewers and doubled up as the Old Trafford shithouse cleaner. He had to go off during one game because a log jam had built up and blocked the "U" bend.

And that Eddie Hapgood, he was a male model, though he never liked to talk about it.

So I say we start calling kids real male names again. If you're having a kid don't even consider a poofy name like what people call their kids these days. Otherwise, what are we gonna get in twenty years time? The England team full of players called Ronan, Keanu, Ashley and fooking Chesney.

Fook that, call your kids Herbert, Len, Fred and Wilf and lets get the poofs out of the game once and for all!"

[Samilktray]

Albert had a similar stance involving his opinions, no?

It's all debate, of course I'm going to feel like my opinion is correct because it's what I think. In my mind, it's right.

I think that if Barry starts, we see the best of Lampard / Gerrard, and one of those two on top form that could easily unlock any Belarussian defence.

Some people are allowed opinions and some arent it would seem.

[Tevez]

James

Wes Brown

Rio

Upson

Bridge

Carrick/Hargreaves

Gerrard

Lampard

Rooney

Heskey

Walcott

[Jam]

Capello should play .......in the next round of world cup qualifiers

James

Richards

ferdinand

woodgate

cole

beckham

gerrard

hargreaves

walcott

rooney

owen

simple as ......beckham past it like fook is he ....came on changed the game ...figo played for portugal untill he was 34 - 35 and still made a difference , and hes STILL plays for inter

owen- proven goalscorer at international level ...and with world class delivery from becks....

hargreaves sooo underated......got a feelin these comments aree gonna ignite this thread ...shit should keep my opinion to meself ...only a newbie