Would you?

[Phube]

I guess it's not your fault you know fook all about rygbi.

I loved Leonard Rossiter too...

[Dr The Singh]

Stealing of any kind is wrong, but ofcourse the level of punishement should reflect loss and ofcourse the nature and reason why the thief stole!!

In a nation where politicians are known to pilfer and go 'scott free', our nation really does have to look at itself!!!

[Alexikokopops]

You really are a massively ignorant, hugely narrow minded, insufferably unintelligent twit who seriously, seriously lacks the ability to grasp at anything vaguely resembling an abstract concept.

You, honest to God, annoy me more than anyone else on this forum - AshLcfc, Milky Joe, JakeShingler, DB11 and Jack included.

/rantfortheday,offtowalkdog.

Hahaha I love grumpy Finners.

Thieves, any thieves, are beneath contempt. The Arabs have the right idea in dealing with them.

I'd be wandering around with one hand now just because I was a stupid 15 year old who was with a friend who got caught nicking some cds from HMV. That would be frustrating.

[James.]

I remember stealing a cassette tape once. From Our Price (is that what it was called?) on Gallowtree Gate. It was in the bargain bucket and would have only cost 99p. DJ Harvey - Late Night Sessions.

That's my confession for the day.

[Dr The Singh]

I remember stealing a cassette tape once. From Our Price (is that what it was called?) on Gallowtree Gate. It was in the bargain bucket and would have only cost 99p. DJ Harvey - Late Night Sessions.

That's my confession for the day.

I stole Avtar Maniac's extreme album from the local video shop once, it was an oppportunist grab, i'd never heard of the artist before and felt a **** because I wanted another album, but after listening o it, it was well worth it!!!

[Thracian]

Hahaha I love grumpy Finners.

I'd be wandering around with one hand now just because I was a stupid 15 year old who was with a friend who got caught nicking some cds from HMV. That would be frustrating.

But you wouldn't would you? Had you caught you'd have been forced to pay due reparations. Those reparations would doubtless have been harsh enough to make you think again. You would also have been warned of the possible consequences should you continue thieving. And hopefully the reparations made and the prospect of severe punishment in future would have shown you there was no future in thieving. It is called deterrent. We don't have any. Their's seems to work quite well yet they don't seem to have to use it much.

[Thracian]

Stealing of any kind is wrong, but ofcourse the level of punishement should reflect loss and ofcourse the nature and reason why the thief stole!!

In a nation where politicians are known to pilfer and go 'scott free', our nation really does have to look at itself!!!

I'm still waiting to hear of these instances where stealing might be justified.

As for crimes by people in Government. Their crimes should be more harshly punished because they, by definition, should be setting an example rather like the leaders of industry and anyone else in a position of authority and responsibility.

In reality they often get far better protected from answerability and punishment than any layman.

[Milky]

You're like the student loans handbook for idiots, you're back in with the good guys for being useful.

I guess it's not your fault you know fook all about rygbi.

ooo that hurts

[Guest]

Citizen arrest!

Would love to do it.

You have to be careful; as a citizen, you can only arrest in certain circumstances, and if you get it wrong, you will get done for false imprisonment. Ok, it's the Torygraph.......

But you wouldn't would you? Had you caught you'd have been forced to pay due reparations. Those reparations would doubtless have been harsh enough to make you think again. You would also have been warned of the possible consequences should you continue thieving. And hopefully the reparations made and the prospect of severe punishment in future would have shown you there was no future in thieving. It is called deterrent. We don't have any. Their's seems to work quite well yet they don't seem to have to use it much.

But it's not a deterrent, really. Not if you can get away the first few times it by paying due reparations, which is no doubt what happens.

[JakeShingler]

Ok, it's the Torygraph.......

[Thracian]

You have to be careful; as a citizen, you can only arrest in certain circumstances, and if you get it wrong, you will get done for false imprisonment. Ok, it's the Torygraph.......

But it's not a deterrent, really. Not if you can get away the first few times it by paying due reparations, which is no doubt what happens.

I'm not sure that the "reparations" amount to "getting away" with anything.

In fact convicted thieves may only get one chance because, certainly in Saudi, the cutting off of the left hand might well be an option to the court for a second offence although the evidential requirements are quite stringent, which much reduces actual instances of the punishment.

Whatever, it seems to be a considerable deterrent according to the crime figures I listed. If you've got some that suggest differently I'll be happy to read em.

I'd much rather not be an advocate of extreme punishment and have tried to justify that approach for many years.

But the humanitarian way has not coincided with the promotion of the sort of moral structure necessary to make any progress in that direction with the consequence that anti-social crime is still rife, the situation is not being dealt with effectively and I've become sick of the excuse makers.

At least the Saudi way with thieves seems to work and is nothing like as ill-conceived as the western Press sometimes likes to convey.

First it demands reparations, then (usually) it becomes more penal and then it says "You kep stealing from others, nothing we've done deters you so if taking your property doesn't work we'll take your ability to use a hand." Would that prospect not focus your attention?

The biggest risk to the system is of a set-up but even that is addressed because, unlike in this country, false allegations are often even more harshly delt with than the crimes.

PS: I was interested to read recently that Jamaica is to kep the death penalty having had a morotorium since 1988. Since the moratorium the place has been overrun with gangs and a surge in the number of violent murders. In other words people have taken advantage of a more humane administration and the nation has not effectively addressed the problems caused.

Singapore still uses the death sentence and generally cracks down hard on crime. From what I gather, instances of violent and anti-social crime are extremely low and Singapore has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

[MC Prussian]

Are we feeling Global Recession?

[Guest]

I'm not sure that the "reparations" amount to "getting away" with anything.

In fact convicted thieves may only get one chance because, certainly in Saudi, the cutting off of the left hand might well be an option to the court for a second offence although the evidential requirements are quite stringent, which much reduces actual instances of the punishment.

Whatever, it seems to be a considerable deterrent according to the crime figures I listed. If you've got some that suggest differently I'll be happy to read em.

I'd much rather not be an advocate of extreme punishment and have tried to justify that approach for many years.

But the humanitarian way has not coincided with the promotion of the sort of moral structure necessary to make any progress in that direction with the consequence that anti-social crime is still rife, the situation is not being dealt with effectively and I've become sick of the excuse makers.

At least the Saudi way with thieves seems to work and is nothing like as ill-conceived as the western Press sometimes likes to convey.

First it demands reparations, then (usually) it becomes more penal and then it says "You kep stealing from others, nothing we've done deters you so if taking your property doesn't work we'll take your ability to use a hand." Would that prospect not focus your attention?

The biggest risk to the system is of a set-up but even that is addressed because, unlike in this country, false allegations are often even more harshly delt with than the crimes.

PS: I was interested to read recently that Jamaica is to kep the death penalty having had a morotorium since 1988. Since the moratorium the place has been overrun with gangs and a surge in the number of violent murders. In other words people have taken advantage of a more humane administration and the nation has not effectively addressed the problems caused.

Singapore still uses the death sentence and generally cracks down hard on crime. From what I gather, instances of violent and anti-social crime are extremely low and Singapore has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

Crime figures can be fudged. I've just written an essay loosely based on the subject. You cannot take one source and use it as gospel, especially when not all criminal activity will find its way into those figures for whatever reason. And believe me, there are many!

One of the interesting things we had to read this week was related to the subject of control theories. A survey was carried out at a middle class US high school. Whilst the results backed up the theory that by "supervising" children better, which is apparently what happens in middle class society () leads to less deviant behaviour, most of the respondents said that if they knew they could get away with it, then they would break the law. This is clearly evident in our society, with the number of people who park illegally, drive around whilst on their phones, help themselves to a few canned beans. Whatever. It is human nature to push the boundaries until they get caught. This seems to be reflected in sharia law with the chance of making reparations. You break the law, you get caught, you effectively get a "warning".

With regards to the death penalty, does it really work? Are you seriously telling me that the states in the US that still have capital punishment are any safer than those who do not?

[Thracian]

With regards to the death penalty, does it really work? Are you seriously telling me that the states in the US that still have capital punishment are any safer than those who do not?

It seems pretty low to me (24th per head of population) given that it's people are allowed to and often do own guns. And considering that its citizens have the right to defend their property and that it has a vast and often very lonely southern border area where it's citizens are constantly concerned about illegal immigrants encroaching on and stealing from their land.

And Saudi is right near the bottom!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...ders-per-capita

[Zingari]

how did someone nicking a can of beans in birmingham become a debate on hangin' an' floggin' 'em ?

[Daggers]

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...ders-per-capita

I love the fact that I lived in two of the top 4, my lad was born in one and I took the entire family to live in the other.

Nails, me!

[Guest]

It seems pretty low to me (24th per head of population) given that it's people are allowed to and often do own guns. And considering that its citizens have the right to defend their property and that it has a vast and often very lonely southern border area where it's citizens are constantly concerned about illegal immigrants encroaching on and stealing from their land.

And Saudi is right near the bottom!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...ders-per-capita

Low it may be, but we have fewer murders per head than the US, and we don't have the death penalty. And have you seen the countries that are above the US? As for the countries that are below the UK in the list, most are on the whole the ones described as "civilised", with no capital or corporal punishment. That would suggest that it is not the death penalty that is the deterrent for murder.

Plus, you fail to ignore the other offences that you might be sentenced to death for in Saudi Arabia. That's without their human rights abuse record being questioned.

[Maybes]

No one likes a snitch, bitches!

[Jack]

Stealings bad.

You damn right.

We would never steal anything, especially not from college.

[AoWW]

You damn right.

We would never steal anything, especially not from college.

I'm shocked.

Teachers never steal - they just 'borrow'.

[Jack]

I'm shocked.

Teachers never steal - they just 'borrow'.

Sam is the worst for it

[AoWW]

Sam is the worst for it

Yeah, he would be.

[Samilktray]

Sam is the worst for it

Is that some sorta joke?!

If only people knew what you were like boss.

If only...

[Jack]

Is that some sorta joke?!

If only people knew what you were like boss.

If only...

Don't try and shift the blame, laddy

[AoWW]

Is that some sorta joke?!

If only people knew what you were like boss.

If only...

Yeah, yeah, try and pin the blame on Jack. Disgusting.