ID Cards - What a waste of time & Money!

[davieG]

From the BBC

Manchester launch for ID cards

Jacqui Smith insists that people's personal data would be more secure

Manchester will this autumn become the first city where people can sign up for an ID card, Jacqui Smith has said.

Anyone over 16 in the city with a UK passport will be able to apply for a card from the Home Office.

The home secretary's speech signals her determination to push ahead with the cards, which will initially cost £30, despite opposition.

The Tories and Lib Dems want the £5bn scheme scrapped, while some Labour MPs have expressed doubts about its cost.

People in Manchester who want an ID card can register their interest on the Directgov website.

They will then be told later in the year how to get their card, which will probably involve a visit to the Manchester passport office to be interviewed and have their fingerprints and photo taken.

The Conservatives claim the Cabinet is split on ID cards, with some ministers keen to scrap them to save money.

But the Home Office says it is determined to push ahead, claiming ID cards will reduce fraud - thus saving money - and are vital to combating terrorism and organised crime.

Giving fingerprints

The Manchester launch will mark the beginning of the main phase of the ID scheme which ministers say will culminate in cards being available nationwide by 2012.

At a series of meetings on Wednesday, Ms Smith said post offices and pharmacies could play an important role in the success of the ID scheme, allowing people to give their fingerprints and a face scan while "out doing the shopping".

The cost of the cards will be capped at £30 for the first two years and then there will be an additional cost to the applicant of getting a card via a post office or High Street pharmacy.

This charge has yet to be decided, but the Home Office says it hopes it will be "competitive", and reports have put the total cost at about £60.

People in Manchester will only be able to get the cards by applying directly to the National Identity Service. They will not be able to get them from shops and post offices for another two years.

"ID cards will deliver real benefits to everyone, including increased protection against criminals, illegal immigrants and terrorists," the home secretary said.

People in Manchester give their views on being the first to trial ID cards

Government officials will seek to allay people's concerns about the amount of personal data to be collected and retained for the new cards, saying it will be no greater than for passports.

"I think it is important to recognise that we're not collecting some massive accumulation of information about citizens," said James Hall, chief executive of the Identity and Passport Service.

Airport resistance

Non-EU residents have been required to have identity cards since the end of last year.

Shadow home secretary Chris Grayling said the Conservatives would scrap ID cards but were not "assuming vast savings", as much of the money has already been spent.

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We are still talking about somewhere between £1bn and £2bn which, at a time when our public finances are in a right Royal mess, is a saving worth having in my view."

He claimed "the government's plans are quite clearly for a compulsory ID card scheme in the end" and people on low incomes, such as pensioners, should not be forced to pay for them.

He also questioned the value of the Manchester trial, arguing it was "very hard to see" how it could be made to work on a voluntary basis in a single city.

If the Conservatives win the next election they would scrap the scheme, said Mr Grayling, adding: "We don't think the nation can afford them and they won't happen."

'Big Brother'

Efforts to issue cards to pilots and other airport workers - a scheme which is being trialled at Manchester and London City airports - are meeting with growing resistance.

Pilots say they are effectively being forced into signing up for the cards.

"Our members believed the government promise that the ID card would be voluntary," said Jim McAuslan, general secretary of the pilots' union Balpa.

"But they now know it is anything but. Our members must have an airside pass to operate aircraft and now discover that to get that pass they must have a national ID card.

"This is coercion and a case of Big Brother knows best."

Officials said they were prepared to work with unions to resolve any differences but stressed that ID cards would improve security at airports and speed up recruitment procedures.

Dr Edgar Whitley of the London School of Economics has been warning about the cost of the scheme - which he has estimated at £10bn-£20bn - for the past four years.

The government's figure for the cost to the Home Office is about £5bn.

Dr Whitley told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "The more I learn about it, the less impressed I've become.

"The government said one of the benefits would be you'll be able to use your identity card to get personalised public services.

"But the most recent date for when that will start to happen is 2015. So the people in Manchester, if they enrol with their cards, won't get any particular benefit until four or five years from now."

[purpleronnie]

The british (english) government is probably one of the most intrusive in the world now. Its to fight terrorism, and to help stop illegal immigration...yeah right.

[Steven]

What else does one expect from Jacqui, "I can be tougher than Beria ", Smith. Vote Liberal for a new Britain.

[MC Prussian]

We're having similar political issues right now, albeit it's only an upcoming general vote on biometric passports.

It is debatable whether you need an ID card, but in the unlikely case of a police control or similar, you want to be able to clearly identify yourself properly. And an ID is the handiest solution as of right now.

Unless you want a microchip implant.

[davieG]

When you've got those in favour making stupid comments like this you know it's going to be a complete balls up.

This charge has yet to be decided, but the Home Office says it hopes it will be "competitive", and reports have put the total cost at about £60.

Competitive with what, Is someone else offering a comparable, acceptable ID card for more than £60?

[Dr The Singh]

When you've got those infavour making stupid comments like this you know it's going to be a complete balls up.

Competitive with what, Is some else offering a comparable, acceptable ID card for more than £60?

This government really fooooks me off, i'm really thinking about leaving this place!!!

[purpleronnie]

TBH the 'Big Brother' issue is the only reason I would think about stopping in the states.

[Jon the Hat]

Let's not forget the really brilliant bit, about how you will be able to go to your local pharmacy to give the biometric info. I must have missed the bit where pharmacies became security checked bastions of national security.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Competitive with what, Is someone else offering a comparable, acceptable ID card for more than £60?

I can do you one for a tenner, as long as you don't have brown eyes or hair, because I've lost that crayon

[gazzer]

This government really fooooks me off, i'm really thinking about leaving this place!!!

Interesting. Well here is a list of the 10 Countries that don't have an ID Card. Albania, anyone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ident...cies_by_country

Personally I have no problem with ID Cards, having had one in Hong Kong for 12 years they are quite useful. Not sure I would pay for one though. Also this Government have serious issues with 1) bringing large IT projects in on budget and 2) holding on securely to personal data

[Dr The Singh]

Interesting. Well here is a list of the 10 Countries that don't have an ID Card. Albania, anyone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ident...cies_by_country

Personally I have no problem with ID Cards, having had one in Hong Kong for 12 years they are quite useful. Not sure I would pay for one though. Also this Government have serious issues with 1) bringing large IT projects in on budget and 2) holding on securely to personal data

Canada

[davieG]

Interesting. Well here is a list of the 10 Countries that don't have an ID Card. Albania, anyone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ident...cies_by_country

Personally I have no problem with ID Cards, having had one in Hong Kong for 12 years they are quite useful. Not sure I would pay for one though. Also this Government have serious issues with 1) bringing large IT projects in on budget and 2) holding on securely to personal data

In what way are they useful, I've never needed one, so unless they 'create' reasons for having one I really don't see the point.

I still need a passport to travel

I still need a European Health Insurance card to travel

I still need to give my Credit card number if I hire a car or stay in many hotels

I no doubt will still have to produce a plethora of ID if I want to open a bank account even though I'm depositing money in it.

People can see I'm over 18

And by the time they become compulsory I've no doubt the price will be over £100. All this as well as an over-hyped passport costing much much more than it ever did. If we're going to have one combine the two and produce 1 item.

Not forgetting a bigger army of staff to collect the ever more complex 'identity details'.

All that and anyone determined enough e.g fanatical terrorists with an unlimited supply of funds will still be able to bypass it in some way.

The whole thing is simply laughable.

[davieG]

Oh and while we're on about sledgehammers to crack peanuts why do I have to give all my personal details when exchanging £80 for 80 Euros.

[Dr The Singh]

In what way are they useful, I've never needed one, so unless they 'create' reasons for having one I really don't see the point.

I still need a passport to travel

I still need a European Health Insurance card to travel

I still need to give my Credit card number if I hire a car or stay in many hotels

I no doubt will still have to produce a plethora of ID if I want to open a bank account even though I'm depositing money in it.

People can see I'm over 18

And by the time they become compulsory I've no doubt the price will be over £100. All this as well as an over-hyped passport costing much much more than it ever did. If we're going to have one combine the two and produce 1 item.

Not forgetting a bigger army of staff to collect the ever more complex 'identity details'.

All that and anyone determined enough e.g fanatical terrorists with an unlimited supply of funds will still be able to bypass it in some way.

The whole thing is simply laughable.

Not to add the amount of times I will lose it or leave it at home........................................will that mean because I don't have one, I will be arrested and treated like an illegal?????

[davieG]

Not to add the amount of times I will lose it or leave it at home........................................will that mean because I don't have one, I will be arrested and treated like an illegal?????

No more than you deserve you sex depraved wannabe!

[Jon the Hat]

Oh and while we're on about sledgehammers to crack peanuts why do I have to give all my personal details when exchanging £80 for 80 Euros.

Summat about money laundering.

[davieG]

Summat about money laundering.

Well I guessed that but it's always the same there's problem so let's make everyone pay the price whilst the determined money launderer carries on as if nothing has happened. Has it stopped money being laundered - I'd hazard an educated guess - No!

[lavrentis]

Oh and while we're on about sledgehammers to crack peanuts why do I have to give all my personal details when exchanging £80 for 80 Euros.

Jesus, the exchange rate is not that bad is it?

[Shrenchel]

Oh and while we're on about sledgehammers to crack peanuts why do I have to give all my personal details when exchanging £80 for 80 Euros.

Money laundering.

ID cards are an absolute joke. I dont even know why Labour is pushing ahead with them. They now as well as anyone else that the Tories are going to win the next election and will scrap them so why bother making themselves even more unpopular by continually banging on about something that will never reach fruitation.

[davieG]

Jesus, the exchange rate is not that bad is it?

£1 = 1.09Euros - so yes!

[Jon the Hat]

Money laundering.

ID cards are an absolute joke. I dont even know why Labour is pushing ahead with them. They now as well as anyone else that the Tories are going to win the next election and will scrap them so why bother making themselves even more unpopular by continually banging on about something that will never reach fruitation.

Ah no. You see, Labour are living in a completely different world, where all that matters is positioning themselevs so they have the best chance of being or being buddy with the next Labour leader. Who cares if the whole country goes to sh!t in the meantime! They will be on their little socialist mission merrily spending our cash on barbecues and sauna's in their second homes.

[gazzer]

In what way are they useful, I've never needed one, so unless they 'create' reasons for having one I really don't see the point.

I still need a passport to travel

I still need a European Health Insurance card to travel

I still need to give my Credit card number if I hire a car or stay in many hotels

I no doubt will still have to produce a plethora of ID if I want to open a bank account even though I'm depositing money in it.

People can see I'm over 18

And by the time they become compulsory I've no doubt the price will be over £100. All this as well as an over-hyped passport costing much much more than it ever did. If we're going to have one combine the two and produce 1 item.

Not forgetting a bigger army of staff to collect the ever more complex 'identity details'.

All that and anyone determined enough e.g fanatical terrorists with an unlimited supply of funds will still be able to bypass it in some way.

The whole thing is simply laughable.

Probably don't need one in UK, you are right. The situation in HK is somewhat different.

- The majority of people don't have a driving license or a passport.

- They can be used for everything from opening a bank account, booking government services (e.g. tennis courts) entering and leaving HK via automatic barriers, renting a flat and they're universally recognised.

Quite useful really, and credit-card sized to fit easily in your wallet

[Dr The Singh]

No more than you deserve you sex depraved wannabe!

So true dG, so true!!!

[Webbo]

They were discussing this on the radio at dinner time. Apparently it's not only £30 for your ID card, your council tax will have to go up £100 to cover the cost of administering the scheme.

[Dr The Singh]

They were discussing this on the radio at dinner time. Apparently it's not only £30 for your ID card, your council tax will have to go up £100 to cover the cost of administering the scheme.

I feel raped after reading that, usually I like the feeling but this time I feel used and dirty!!!