Moving grounds

[Radovan's Caravan]

How about developing the ground so that they didn't have to come out backwards, a 4 sided traditional stadium developed over time doesn't automatical mean it's a decrepit stadia with open terraces and buckled crash barriers, cow sheds and chicken runs. In fact the Walkers has more chicken runs in it than Filbert St ever had. The quality of the food has got nothing to do with the stadium, the food at Filbert St was superior in my opinion.

It also wouldn't have bankrupted us.

Looks like you had a lop sided stadium which suggests a land issue - am I right? As for chicken runs at The Walkers all I saw was a near perfect oval. The sight lines remain the best of any stadium that I have ever visited (according to my very nice brochure given to me by my hosts 'The Miller Partnership' this benefit is due to a unique software system).

I made a light hearted reference to the quality of Serbian sporting cuisine because I have noticed that English football fans have an overdeveloped sense of the perverse when it comes to the 'matchday experience.' The impression I get is that it must be as bad as possible so that you can arrive home with a warm glow of satisfaction knowing that you 'had it rough.'

Part of a wider bohemian outlook I suspect which in turn is probably a legacy of your Victorian social reformers/ragged trousered philanthropists who got off on mixing it with the lower orders in the slums, prisons and dark satanic mills before racing back to their mansions in Belgravia. The real rough experience is not being able to get out of it. Anyway, I digress...

The Britannia Stadium is a new build not too dissimilar to your own. It's occupants don't seem to have too much problem creating an atmosphere. Wouldn't be anything to do with being in the EPL for the first time in donkeys' years would it?

A situation not unlike your halcyon days at Filbert Street?

[lildave3]

If I was you, i'd choose the City Ground over that proposed stadium anyday.

[davieG]

Looks like you had a lop sided stadium which suggests a land issue - am I right? As for chicken runs at The Walkers all I saw was a near perfect oval. The sight lines remain the best of any stadium that I have ever visited (according to my very nice brochure given to me by my hosts 'The Miller Partnership' this benefit is due to a unique software system).

I made a light hearted reference to the quality of Serbian sporting cuisine because I have noticed that English football fans have an overdeveloped sense of the perverse when it comes to the 'matchday experience.' The impression I get is that it must be as bad as possible so that you can arrive home with a warm glow of satisfaction knowing that you 'had it rough.'

Part of a wider bohemian outlook I suspect which in turn is probably a legacy of your Victorian social reformers/ragged trousered philanthropists who got off on mixing it with the lower orders in the slums, prisons and dark satanic mills before racing back to their mansions in Belgravia. The real rough experience is not being able to get out of it. Anyway, I digress...

The Britannia Stadium is a new build not too dissimilar to your own. It's occupants don't seem to have too much problem creating an atmosphere. Wouldn't be anything to do with being in the EPL for the first time in donkeys' years would it?

A situation not unlike your halcyon days at Filbert Street?

I wouldn't have said the Britannia was like ours, but if we'd have added to the then Carling Stand it could well have ended up like that. The reason we didn't was because some local residents objected even though the ground was there before they were born.

As for the chicken runs well that's it feel like under the stands when trying to using the toilets and refreshments, well more like factory hens I guess, too small even when it's only half full.

New grounds are ok when they are built to a decent standard fro ALL fans not just those that can afford executive boxes and provided you can afford them - so many of the clubs suffering administration are those that built new grounds that they couldn't afford or sustain.

We got about £5mill for Filbert St, because of the cost of dismantling a stand that wasn't that old, we know have an unsustainable debt of circa £25 mill - not a good exchange to my mind.

[Radovan's Caravan]

I wouldn't have said the Britannia was like ours, but if we'd have added to the then Carling Stand it could well have ended up like that. The reason we didn't was because some local residents objected even though the ground was there before they were born.

As for the chicken runs well that's it feel like under the stands when trying to using the toilets and refreshments, well more like factory hens I guess, too small even when it's only half full.

New grounds are ok when they are built to a decent standard fro ALL fans not just those that can afford executive boxes and provided you can afford them - so many of the clubs suffering administration are those that built new grounds that they couldn't afford or sustain.

We got about £5mill for Filbert St, because of the cost of dismantling a stand that wasn't that old, we know have an unsustainable debt of circa £25 mill - not a good exchange to my mind.

Going by the picture and my rapidly fading memory The Walkers knocks the Britannia into a cocked hat.

Face it, if your historical fortunes were reversed and you had Mr O'Neill with you now and you were in the EPL playing in front of full houses every fortnight, winning trophies and playing in Europe you'd feel a little less nostalgia for your final days at Filbert Street played out in the old Third Division...

Scrub that, it wouldn't be 'less nostalgia' more like 'Post Traumatic Stress'.

[Lillehamring]

I think it's a shame a compromise can't be found. I think in the next century most clubs are going to move grounds and it's a shame even a little innovation can't go into their design. I think the KC Stadium is the best modern stadium outside of the really big clubs/cities, it's at least quite interesting to look at.

i think this is a very good point and already seems to be happening - i think a lot of new stadia will be built learning from the mistakes made by clubs like us southampton, derby, sunderland et al...

unfortunately for us, we commited to a stadium at the height of building unproven designs, sadly we are stuck with it....

[BlueSi13]

The Walkers Stadium wipes the floor with the piss smelling old Filbert Street that became an embarrassment to the club toward the end, remember the chants that could be heard every other week "my garden shed is bigger than this"?

Some of the worst atmospheres i've ever heard at a football game were at Filbert Street and NOT at the Walkers Stadium, the constant whining is truly tedious, we are much better off where we are, the history will come and the ground has potential to expand and grow, look forwards guys and not back to the dark ages to our previous hovel of a stadium, nostalgia is great but not when it leads to hatred of what we have now

[davieG]

The Walkers Stadium wipes the floor with the piss smelling old Filbert Street that became an embarrassment to the club toward the end, remember the chants that could be heard every other week "my garden shed is bigger than this"?

Some of the worst atmospheres i've ever heard at a football game were at Filbert Street and NOT at the Walkers Stadium, the constant whining is truly tedious, we are much better off where we are, the history will come and the ground has potential to expand and grow, look forwards guys and not back to the dark ages to our previous hovel of a stadium, nostalgia is great but not when it leads to hatred of what we have now

It's not a question of hatred for me it's about making the right decisions, we could not afford this stadium, improving Filbert St on the back of the Carling Stand would have been preferably but so many people in Leicester outside the game contrived to prevent that and we are paying the price and will continue to do so.

£20 to £25 mill in debt on the stadium and rising with every season, getting promoted to the Premiership wont solve it either, we'll need every penny we can muster to stay up and to give Mandaric his profit, he wasn't rich enough to stay and keep Portsmouth up and I doubt he'll be rich enough to do it for LCFC and pay off the debt.

[CosbehFox]

The Britannia Stadium is a new build not too dissimilar to your own.

It's different. It has three two tier stands and one 'kop'. It's one of the few new builds to be different in design. You could even argue Arsenal's Emirates is a bowl.

The bottom line is designs which are different impact on so many different things, that in the long run, it's an expensive job. Clubs will look for the most cost-effective way to build a stadium....even the cost of policing comes into consideration. IMO if at all possible clubs should look at expanding their current stadium ala Villa, Norwich, Ipswich which in the process creates grounds with a distinctive feel. Preston is probably the most distinctive new build and that was phased (as will be Leicester Tigers).

Why can't Forest build where their Main Stand is?

[phillip j fry]

on a smaller scale grantham (home town) moved to a brandspanking new stadium in the late eighties/early nineties .they too thought that this would be the start of a grand new era.and as with the walkers the new one was soulless,atmosphereless and the club suffered as a result.the running track was just the iceing on a shit cake.fact is filbo was one of the most chracterfilled stadiums in the country but we are kidding ourselves if we belive that some how it was buzzing every match day .when standing went the atmosphere bled away and it wasnt the experience that it was.it aint ever coming back but at least we have memories.forest dont move,you will regret it.

[Bryn]

The sightlines that have been touched upon are definitely, DEFINITELY a good thing. I remember being heartbroken so many times as a young lad because I missed a goal either because of a pillar or because I couldn't see past people well enough (not entirely the stadiums fault admittedly). I've never missed a goal at the Walkers and I think I was 11 when I first went, so was still a shortarse.

[lavrentis]

on a smaller scale grantham (home town) moved to a brandspanking new stadium in the late eighties/early nineties .they too thought that this would be the start of a grand new era.and as with the walkers the new one was soulless,atmosphereless and the club suffered as a result.the running track was just the iceing on a shit cake.fact is filbo was one of the most chracterfilled stadiums in the country but we are kidding ourselves if we belive that some how it was buzzing every match day .when standing went the atmosphere bled away and it wasnt the experience that it was.it aint ever coming back but at least we have memories.forest dont move,you will regret it.

The Meres ?

[RedHux]

It's different. It has three two tier stands and one 'kop'. It's one of the few new builds to be different in design. You could even argue Arsenal's Emirates is a bowl.

The bottom line is designs which are different impact on so many different things, that in the long run, it's an expensive job. Clubs will look for the most cost-effective way to build a stadium....even the cost of policing comes into consideration. IMO if at all possible clubs should look at expanding their current stadium ala Villa, Norwich, Ipswich which in the process creates grounds with a distinctive feel. Preston is probably the most distinctive new build and that was phased (as will be Leicester Tigers).

Why can't Forest build where their Main Stand is?

Something to do with residents wanting some light into their house or something. Personally I'm of the opinion that the council would just love a great big bit of land just on the banks of the trent in West Bridgford but need a good enough reason to move us first.

[lcfc_jme]

This thread has reminded me of Family Night Football.

City should bring that back.

Yes, yes they should. I used to love that. Such great times!

[Radovan's Caravan]

I wouldn't have said the Britannia was like ours, but if we'd have added to the then Carling Stand it could well have ended up like that. The reason we didn't was because some local residents objected even though the ground was there before they were born.

As for the chicken runs well that's it feel like under the stands when trying to using the toilets and refreshments, well more like factory hens I guess, too small even when it's only half full.

New grounds are ok when they are built to a decent standard fro ALL fans not just those that can afford executive boxes and provided you can afford them - so many of the clubs suffering administration are those that built new grounds that they couldn't afford or sustain.

We got about £5mill for Filbert St, because of the cost of dismantling a stand that wasn't that old, we know have an unsustainable debt of circa £25 mill - not a good exchange to my mind.

According to my excellent brochure the cost of The Walkers was about one year's Sky TV revenue. Your club's financial position was weakened not just by the cost of the new stadium but by several other things which came together to form the perfect financial storm.

You had a new inexperienced coach (at least at top level) who spent heavily and unwisely. You were relegated. Also, if I am not mistaken, there was another proposal to build a larger stadium and leisure/retail complex that was rejected at a very advanced stage?

If I am right about all of this why did you not mention it?

[Heart-Shaped Fox]

I'm 17 so was only at Filbo for 3/4 seasons and was obviously fairly young so can't remember a lot. But what I can is the fact how much better the atmosphere was. I can recall the Man Utd game we got relegated. I know that was quite emotional but the atmosphere and the crowd were simply briliant, while at the Walkers I can't remember having a great atmosphere. You could put this down to the Kop being at the wrong end, etc, but I just don't know what the reason is.

Having said that maybe if we get more success in the coming years we might reignite similar nooise levels.

But in terms of facilities and access I have found Walkers being far better, as things like the toilets at Filbo were terrible.

One thing that does really annoy me is the fact that we have worse score boards a modern ground could have and I personally would love a big screen. Oh well.

[Corky]

I'm 17 so was only at Filbo for 3/4 seasons and was obviously fairly young so can't remember a lot. But what I can is the fact how much better the atmosphere was. I can recall the Man Utd game we got relegated. I know that was quite emotional but the atmosphere and the crowd were simply briliant, while at the Walkers I can't remember having a great atmosphere. You could put this down to the Kop being at the wrong end, etc, but I just don't know what the reason is.

Having said that maybe if we get more success in the coming years we might reignite similar nooise levels.

But in terms of facilities and access I have found Walkers being far better, as things like the toilets at Filbo were terrible.

One thing that does really annoy me is the fact that we have worse score boards a modern ground could have and I personally would love a big screen. Oh well.

We've had some good atmospheres at the Walkers. Many in the promotion season 02/03, the next season, the Sheffield Wednesday match in 07/08 (first 30 mins anyway).

People can move from the Kop to nearer the away fans if they want, but they've obviously got into a routine, like their current seats and don't want to move.

[Vacamion]

Regrettably, the atmosphere at all grounds suffered when football went all-seater.

Despite the wishes of many for some degree of safe standing, I'm afraid that just is not ever going to happen.

Filbo wasn't designed for seating.

Lines of sight problems caused by pillars are worsened when you are stuck in a seat and capacity was reduced by seating.

Like it or not, the club needed the new Stadium.

If anything, the decision that should be looked at is not the one to move to a new stadium, it was the decision to build a massive new stand at Filbo without having planning permission to expand the other 3 sides accordingly.

We are where we are - rather than moaning, the fans should make an atmosphere that differentiates our concrete bowl from the others around the country...

[lou]

Regrettably, the atmosphere at all grounds suffered when football went all-seater.

Despite the wishes of many for some degree of safe standing, I'm afraid that just is not ever going to happen.

Filbo wasn't designed for seating.

Lines of sight problems caused by pillars are worsened when you are stuck in a seat and capacity was reduced by seating.

Like it or not, the club needed the new Stadium.

If anything, the decision that should be looked at is not the one to move to a new stadium, it was the decision to build a massive new stand at Filbo without having planning permission to expand the other 3 sides accordingly.

We are where we are - rather than moaning, the fans should make an atmosphere that differentiates our concrete bowl from the others around the country...

I love the City ground as a stadium and think it would be a shame if they did move Forest to be honest

[Heart-Shaped Fox]

We've had some good atmospheres at the Walkers. Many in the promotion season 02/03, the next season, the Sheffield Wednesday match in 07/08 (first 30 mins anyway).

People can move from the Kop to nearer the away fans if they want, but they've obviously got into a routine, like their current seats and don't want to move.

Yes, I agree we have had some games with good atmosphere, but not enough for my liking. I remember in 2003/03 the evening match vs. Forest when we won 1-0 which was awesome, being a local derby and the game that ll but confirmed our promotion. But, I just feel that away games have are almost more exciting to go to and smetimes more enjoyable as the more die hard fans go and sing and shout throughout creating a better atmosphere.

[Daggers]

(artists impression).

When you move to an (artists impression) stadium you end up with an (artists impression) crowd.

[davieG]

According to my excellent brochure the cost of The Walkers was about one year's Sky TV revenue. Your club's financial position was weakened not just by the cost of the new stadium but by several other things which came together to form the perfect financial storm.

You had a new inexperienced coach (at least at top level) who spent heavily and unwisely. You were relegated.

You need that money to stay in the top league - yes we did have other problems but a reputable board would have taken that into account and included contingencies for such an event, that they didn't shames them. we were living beyond our means and a new stadium exacerbated that.

Also, if I am not mistaken, there was another proposal to build a larger stadium and leisure/retail complex that was rejected at a very advanced stage?

If I am right about all of this why did you not mention it?

That's true there were some more grandiose plans but they included a hotel, housing, retail and leisure complex - I never mention it because it never really got to an advance stage as planning permission was refused due to local objections which I mentioned previously. This project with the inclusion of the other facilities may have proved more sustainable as I would imagine the cost of the stadium could have been recouped on the sale of the other facilities.

[Radovan's Caravan]

An evening's research has shown that I was correct about the advanced nature of the previous stadium plan. After being originally rejected it went to appeal and then was formerly withdrawn in January 2000.

The proposed Bede Island South Stadium was a double decker with a capacity of 40,000. Partners in the venture included Goldwing Properties, Mowlem and later a construction company called Ballast Wiltshier.

The architects plans and model were put on public display in 1999. A free weekend in Belgrade for the first poster to put them up here.

[Guest Bilo]

An evening's research has shown that I was correct about the advanced nature of the previous stadium plan. After being originally rejected it went to appeal and then was formerly withdrawn in January 2000.

The proposed Bede Island South Stadium was a double decker with a capacity of 40,000. Partners in the venture included Goldwing Properties, Mowlem and later a construction company called Ballast Wiltshier.

The architects plans and model were put on public display in 1999. A free weekend in Belgrade for the first poster to put them up here.

I'll pack me cases.

[Radovan's Caravan]

I'll pack me cases.

How the devil did you find that Mr Bilo? I must congratulate you on your enterprise. Personally I think that this is a better image:

OK Take the weekend shuttle out of RAF Brize Norton to Nikola Tesla. I'll meet you at the end of the runway in the APC. I'll be wearing my flak jacket.

As a precaution I'd advise you to 'runch' to avoid any incoming...

[Ultra]

Any club looking at building a new out of town Megadome really should look at all the previous examples of clubs doing it (us, Southampton, Chaventry, Colchester etc.) to see that it really doesn't do you all that good.

Soon there'll be so many identikit legolands in this country that there'll scarcely be any away games worth going to.

But what about Bolton, who have just had their most successful decade ever?

Or Middlesbrough? (ditto)

Or Hull? (highest ever league place)

Or Sunderland (gates doubled on their move to the Stadium of Light?)

Once Derby took the plunge and moved to a far bigger stadium, we had to do likewise - especially as our fanbase was far too big for Filbo.

It's shameful to see so many repeat the myth that our current stadium has no atmosphere. I don't recall too many problems at the Leeds game.