Max Gradel

[Babylon]

Put bluntly, it doesn't work. Why? Because it means we don't and won't score enough goals.

Enough goals to do what... Get promoted last year? Finish in a decent position this year? Or is it simply just not enough to please you?

You bang on about Grayson and Leeds as though they are the bastions of attacking footballs. Going off their league record this year and comparing it to ours last year, the goals to games ratio is 1.84 compared to our 1.82. They obviously don't score enough goals then either!!!

[Daggers]

Well, bang goes his Employee of the Month nomination.

[Kilworthfox]

Got to be between 250k-500k with a 20% sell on clause i rekon.

Pure guess though.

£200k

[kimbell]

No-one suggests any winger shouldn't do his share of chasing back but Gradel has never been used in the genuine attacking role most suited to him.

Gradel, I believe, became disenchanted about the emphasis City placed on defending before attacking and it had a negative effect on Dyer too.

Dyer ended up mostly as a one-half influence who was often subbed as his energy-levels waned later on and who eventually lost his place altogether because our tactics so restricted his influence as they did Gradel's.

Countless times and over recent years we've re-inforced our iffy defences by the use of non-specialist wingers - Oakley in particular under Pearson but also including several others including the Kelly masterstroke of using Stephen Hughes.

Put bluntly, it doesn't work. Why? Because it means we don't and won't score enough goals.

So what you are saying ? that unless Pearson changes his tactic's he is not the man to get us promoted ?

[lcfc_jme]

It's rather negative that a future prospect brought through the academy has had to leave the club once again to further their career. Stearman, Mattock, Gradel, and I'm sure King will be next to follow.

If King had any intentions of leaving our club to go on to pastures new he'd have accepted Villa's recent offer and gone there to teach Delph how to play football. As it happens, he was close to leaving but decided to stay here. So behave.

[RAFRUDY]

No more of this then!

[Thracian]

Enough goals to do what... Get promoted last year? Finish in a decent position this year? Or is it simply just not enough to please you?

You bang on about Grayson and Leeds as though they are the bastions of attacking footballs. Going off their league record this year and comparing it to ours last year, the goals to games ratio is 1.84 compared to our 1.82. They obviously don't score enough goals then either!!!

I've hardly mentioned Grayson and Leeds and cannot remember ever referring to them as a particularly significant attacking force. Had you mentioned Nottingham Forest then maybe, although I have hardly mentioned them either.

It is all irrelevent to our approach anyway and it appears I've not made my point clearly enough for your liking so I'll try to make it plainer.

First we weren't a great attacking force for the greater part of last season even against modest and mainly underfunded opposition. We were competent and workmanlike rather than fluid and entertaining.

This season, just as the year we were relegated from the Championship, we have many of the same problems as referred to by many and on countless occasions.

You might seek to modify our ambitions by talking about us scoring enough goals to finish in a "decent position" but all you reflect in my eyes is the compromising and unambitious attitude of so many of our fans who have grown used to mediocrity over the years.

Our necessarily constrained approach has little to do with money. It is down to our failing to improve on known weaknesses thus leaving us with a team which, even at its best, is forever compromised and ill-equipped to score goals at the rate I've previously identified as being necessary to give us a realistic chance of a top two finish - the only place we can guarantee going up.

I'm not saying it is impossible to win a play-off place with our current goals per game ratio (which is way lower than 1.82per game). But it is way short of the target we need to be aiming for and one which would likely assure us of success or at least a gun in the final shoot-out.

I don't give a toss how many goals Leeds score. We've scored 29 goals in 24 League games and that is nowhere near enough nor the sort of target we should be satisfied with. Especially when other teams seem to be improving and we seem to be struggling even to decide what is our best team or even our best back four or front two.

[Dom_Harborough Fox]

No more of this then!

Shame he's gone in my opinion but we've done well without him this year so it's not the biggest of blows to the team.

[Ultra]

Does anyone one know roughly how much wonga we got for him?

Presumably HMRC will be given a figure..

[davieG]

From the Merc:

It has also emerged that Leeds had to make an improved bid before City agreed a deal for 22-year-old winger Max Gradel.

The Elland Road club's initial offer was dismissed by City as "derisory".

Meanwhile, Gradel is expected to play for Leeds at Swindon tonight. He underwent a medical at Elland Road yesterday before discussing personal terms. A fee of about £250,000 is believed to have been agreed.

Gradel handed in a transfer request on Friday after returning from a three-month loan spell at Elland Road.

[Babylon]

I've hardly mentioned Grayson and Leeds and cannot remember ever referring to them as a particularly significant attacking force. Had you mentioned Nottingham Forest then maybe, although I have hardly mentioned them either.

You have banged on about Grayson and Leeds I assure you. As usual you're selective memory comes into play though.

As for Forest, anything to do with all the cash they have spent? Billy has had the money at his disposal to get good players, when he was at Preston and Derby he didn't, which is why they played completely different to how Forest do now.

Our necessarily constrained approach has little to do with money.

Little to do with money? Forest paid out a wedge for Gunter and Shorey, we have to make do with free transfers and kids. Who do you think is going to be better? If we could afford full backs who can defend and attack we might be in a better position also.

score goals at the rate I've previously identified as being necessary to give us a realistic chance of a top two finish.

I think you need a reality check if you were seriously thinking of a top two challenge this year.

[Thracian]

a) You have banged on about Grayson and Leeds I assure you. As usual you're selective memory comes into play though.

b) As for Forest, anything to do with all the cash they have spent? Billy has had the money at his disposal to get good players, when he was at Preston and Derby he didn't, which is why they played completely different to how Forest do now.

c) Little to do with money? Forest paid out a wedge for Gunter and Shorey, we have to make do with free transfers and kids. Who do you think is going to be better? If we could afford full backs who can defend and attack we might be in a better position also.

d) I think you need a reality check if you were seriously thinking of a top two challenge this year.

a) As a percentage of posts my reference to either would barely register.

b) Football history is permanent testimony to clubs and managers who used money badly and others who spent wisely. And to managers who followed their chosen philosophies whatver their financial constraints.

c) We've hardly been football paupers since Mandaric's arrival. Only earlier this morning I've referred to the (to me) huge money we've wasted. In any business you have to make the most of what you've got and I'm quite certain we could have bought or developed better players for certain jobs than we currently employ - and within budget.

d) Why would we not think of a top two finish? Forest have impressed but what the hell is so special about Newcastle, West Brom or anyone else?

[Babylon]

a) As a percentage of posts my reference to either would barely register.

b) Football history is permanent testimony to clubs and managers who used money badly and others who spent wisely. And to managers who followed their chosen philosophies whatver their financial constraints.

c) We've hardly been football paupers since Mandaric's arrival. Only earlier this morning I've referred to the (to me) huge money we've wasted. In any business you have to make the most of what you've got and I'm quite certain we could have bought or developed better players for certain jobs than we currently employ - and within budget.

B) Well Billy Davies (who seems to be your current love affair) certainly changes his footballing philosophies dependant on the resources (playing and financial).

C) Yes money has been wasted Clemence 700k+, DJ £1.6m+... everyone Allen bought and most that Holloway bought. Pearson has currently had more money come in from sales, than he has actually spent. We are also massively better than when he came here, taking that into account i'd say it was more than harsh to lay the amount of blame you seem to be at his door.

Of course he'll buy some duds... name one manager that hasn't!! It's indisputable though that we are better than when he came, and in profit on transfers. With the budget he's working to it will probably take 2/3 years to assemble the quality Forest managed to purchase in one summer.

If only putting a squad together with mostly free transfers and loans was as easy as you make out.

[Thracian]

B) Well Billy Davies (who seems to be your current love affair) certainly changes his footballing philosophies dependant on the resources (playing and financial).

C) Yes money has been wasted Clemence 700k+, DJ £1.6m+... everyone Allen bought and most that Holloway bought. Pearson has currently had more money come in from sales, than he has actually spent. We are also massively better than when he came here, taking that into account i'd say it was more than harsh to lay the amount of blame you seem to be at his door.

D) Of course he'll buy some duds... name one manager that hasn't!! It's indisputable though that we are better than when he came, and in profit on transfers. With the budget he's working to it will probably take 2/3 years to assemble the quality Forest managed to purchase in one summer.

b) Again, I've hardly mentioned Davies. Forest seemed to have been redeveloping an attacking policy at least since the time I saw their reserves hammer City in Nottingham just before Holloway's departure and I wrote about it at the time. I am so interested in the personnel at Forest that I doubt I'd recognise any of their playersor management if I passed them in the street.

c) Pearson can have whatever funds he needs, within reason. He could have sold Fryatt for a start if he really wanted more cash to play with. Or King. Or both - and secured a better price for Gradel. And his lack or otherwise of resources has nothing to do with my thoughts about the kind of football we play.

d) If you are happy with our full-backs, the distributive ability of our centre-backs, the pace of our centre-backs, the mobility of so many of our attackers, the number of goals we're scoring etc. then you're easily pleased.

I'm not and many of our limitations now relate to people Pearson purchased - not to those he inherited.

In terms of developing a side that can get out of this division I'm a long way from being convinced we're on theright track because it seems a good many of those who've come in will have to go out again, something of a waste of time to my mind and therefore a waste of resources.

I'm not kidded, never have been, by our eighth place. We could go down as easily as up with the current approach because the opposition will always have a chance of matching or beating the number of goals we are likely to score IF we carry on in the same way.

I'd actually be happier to see us mid-table but clearly developing a fast, fluid attacking team than contesting the play-off places with a slow, cumbersome approach that will have to be changed.

[Koke]

Swansea are currently sitting 4th and they have scored the least goals at home [11] and they haven't scored many away either [12]. Their top scorer is Darren Pratley who has scored a whooping 5 goals.

We've scored 18 goals at home. Cardiff [20] and Sheffield United [20] aren't much better. Newcastle got 23 at home.

[Thracian]

Swansea are currently sitting 4th and they have scored the least goals at home [11] and they haven't scored many away either [12]. Their top scorer is Darren Pratley who has scored a whooping 5 goals.

We've scored 18 goals at home. Cardiff [20] and Sheffield United [20] aren't much better. Newcastle got 23 at home.

So are you saying we don't need to score more goals or just confirming that we don't have much to beat?

[Toby or not Toby]

B) Well Billy Davies (who seems to be your current love affair) certainly changes his footballing philosophies dependant on the resources (playing and financial).

C) Yes money has been wasted Clemence 700k+, DJ £1.6m+... everyone Allen bought and most that Holloway bought. Pearson has currently had more money come in from sales, than he has actually spent. We are also massively better than when he came here, taking that into account i'd say it was more than harsh to lay the amount of blame you seem to be at his door.

Of course he'll buy some duds... name one manager that hasn't!! It's indisputable though that we are better than when he came, and in profit on transfers. With the budget he's working to it will probably take 2/3 years to assemble the quality Forest managed to purchase in one summer.

If only putting a squad together with mostly free transfers and loans was as easy as you make out.

Good point, you cant expect every singing to be successful. ferguson signed dejmba-dejmba and he was shit

[Thracian]

If only putting a squad together with mostly free transfers and loans was as easy as you make out.

How Pearson puts his side together is his choice. Like I've said, he could sell players. And where have I ever said it was "easy" or that managing in any circumstances was "easy". Why would anyone pay someone ridiculous sums of money to do a job that was "easy".

[Babylon]

How Pearson puts his side together is his choice. Like I've said, he could sell players. And where have I ever said it was "easy" or that managing in any circumstances was "easy". Why would anyone pay someone ridiculous sums of money to do a job that was "easy".

You can only sell players if people bid for them.

You're the one constantly banging on about what people are doing wrong and how it should be done.

[maddog]

Good point, you cant expect every singing to be successful. ferguson signed dejmba-dejmba and he was shit

And Veron, and Anderson, and Owen.

He's a shit manager.