Greatest Players Ever thread..

[Guest Bilo]

Diego Maradona - ignorance is not a defense Maddog!

True that.

I love Messi and Barcelona, but it's worth remembering that Messi is surrounded by an awesome team. Xavi, Iniesta, Ibrahimovic and Puyol would all walk into club team on the planet. So far Messi hasn't proved quite as effective on the international stage, much like Ronaldo hasn't. The problem for both of them is that they aren't surrounded by the same standard of players on international duty as they are for their clubs. Maradona by contrast flourished everywhere. Whether for an otherwise weak Napoli side in Italy when he was taking them to the Italian championship, or for an otherwise mediocre Argentina side in Mexico 86 whom he all but single-handedly took to glory, Maradona was probably the last true one-man team. A cheat he certainly was, a drug addict he became and an average coach he may be but one thing that can never be taken away from him was his brilliance when he was in his pomp.

In the top three alongside Pele and Puskas in my opinion of the greatest players of all time. As much as I admire Messi, I just can't see him emulating what Maradona did. He'd have to join a mid-table Premiership side like Fulham and single-handedly win the Premiership as well as dominating the World Cup in South Africa. That was the scale of Maradona's achievement and Messi hasn't reached that yet.

[Finnegan]

To be fair, Maradona was about four or five years older than Messi is now in 1986.

That might not be a lot to the average adult - but in footballer years that's a lot of development and progress. I appreciate players probably start a fair bit younger these days but even so - Messi still has a startling about of learning and growing to do and that's scary.

[C-man]

True that.

I love Messi and Barcelona, but it's worth remembering that Messi is surrounded by an awesome team. Xavi, Iniesta, Ibrahimovic and Puyol would all walk into club team on the planet. So far Messi hasn't proved quite as effective on the international stage, much like Ronaldo hasn't. The problem for both of them is that they aren't surrounded by the same standard of players on international duty as they are for their clubs. Maradona by contrast flourished everywhere. Whether for an otherwise weak Napoli side in Italy when he was taking them to the Italian championship, or for an otherwise mediocre Argentina side in Mexico 86 whom he all but single-handedly took to glory, Maradona was probably the last true one-man team. A cheat he certainly was, a drug addict he became and an average coach he may be but one thing that can never be taken away from him was his brilliance when he was in his pomp.

In the top three alongside Pele and Puskas in my opinion of the greatest players of all time. As much as I admire Messi, I just can't see him emulating what Maradona did. He'd have to join a mid-table Premiership side like Fulham and single-handedly win the Premiership as well as dominating the World Cup in South Africa. That was the scale of Maradona's achievement and Messi hasn't reached that yet.

I'm sorry but that's absolute rubbish.

What evidence have you to suggest Napoli were a weak side without Maradona? They signed other very good players to support him in their rise from battling relegation to League Champions. When he was banned at the end of his Napoli career they still won the Italian Cup and did okay in Europe.

You have to remember that in 20 years when people look back, will they suggest Barcelona are a one-man team and ignore the likes of Iniesta and Xavi? Will they look back and say Manchester United's dominance in the last 3 years has been down to Ronaldo?! In 20 years people might not remember Darren Fletcher or Nemanja Vidic but their importance to Manchester United's success cannot be underestimated.

Same goes for this 'mediocre' Argentina side that won the World Cup.

[Guest Bilo]

I'm sorry but that's absolute rubbish.

What evidence have you to suggest Napoli were a weak side without Maradona? They signed other very good players to support him in their rise from battling relegation to League Champions. When he was banned at the end of his Napoli career they still won the Italian Cup and did okay in Europe.

You have to remember that in 20 years when people look back, will they suggest Barcelona are a one-man team and ignore the likes of Iniesta and Xavi? Will they look back and say Manchester United's dominance in the last 3 years has been down to Ronaldo?! In 20 years people might not remember Darren Fletcher or Nemanja Vidic but their importance to Manchester United's success cannot be underestimated.

Same goes for this 'mediocre' Argentina side that won the World Cup.

Napoli were a decent side in the 1970s but by the early 1980s, they'd fallen away badly. They were regularly involved in relegation battles in Serie A and Maradona's signing really raised a few eyebrows, and Maradona had had something of an unhappy time at Barcelona. They'd never won Serie A before Maradona, neither had any Southern Italian team. It's fair to say they signed other decent players but Maradona was undoubtedly the star. As for the end of his Napoli career, the club's decline thereafter speaks for itself.

The Supercoppa Italiana is the equivalent to the Community Shield and not really a huge trophy when compared to the FA Cup for example, and they've won next to nothing since. Maradona was to Napoli as a player what Brian Clough was to Forest as a manager. Neither would have enjoyed anything like the success without those famous names. As with Forest, Napoli had won very little before and have won very little since so the situation is the same, Forest would have been nothing without Clough and Napoli would have been nothing without Maradona.

As for the Argentina side, Maradona was instrumental in their success. The two against England in the quarter-final, one should never have stood but the other was one of the greatest ever scored. The two against Belgium in the semi-final and the winning goal against West Germany in the final came courtesy of a Maradona assist. He was the difference between Argentina being world champions and a mediocre quarter final exit.

[The Doctor]

This squad could be seriously improved with a bit of Elvis Hammond.

forget hammond, Sappleton is the main player missing from this thread

[Edmund]

And I presume Van Hooijdonk was a joke?

Don't get me wrong, they're all (with the exception of Pierre) world class players, brilliant players and some of the top level players playing now. Maybe.

[lcfc_jme]

Some of the names thrown around in this thread are ridiculous. Lampard, Ibra, Pato and Ribery? Sneijder? And I presume Van Hooijdonk was a joke?

Don't get me wrong, they're all (with the exception of Pierre) world class players, brilliant players and some of the top level players playing now. Maybe.

But amongst the greatest ever? Great is one of those words like genius that people throw about far too casually. I don't really care who wants to tell me I sound like a fanboy, none of these people come within miles of Messi and probably never will. The boy is an absolute enigma.

I cringe whenever fans of the English game sincerely compare him to Rooney or Ronaldo in terms of ability and then try and give silly excuses like bigging up the standards of the Prem or whatever. Just watch the lad play. Rooney and Ronaldo will be remembered for all time as two excellent footballers of their generation. Messi will be idolized for decades.

As far as I can see, I'm the only person to have mentioned Sneijder in here, and not once did I suggest he was akin to the greatest player ever. I just stated I enjoy watching him play when he's at the top of his game. Didn't realise I had to be a parrot in this thread to have a valid opinion.

[Finnegan]

Take the stick out of your arse, Jamie, son.

I just skim-read the thread to pick out some more names because I thought Lofty'd cry if I just purely mocked all of his picks.

[Sparky]

Its tough to pick a greatest of all time without watching them live in their prime. Pele, Best, Cruyff and Beckenbauer were player id have loved to have watched but all became before my time.

My picks from the players ive watched would be

Maradona

Messi

Zidane

Matthaus

I was in awe of the skills Maradona possessed but i fully expect Messi to step alongside him and Pele as the best player the world has ever seen. For a lad of 22 to be a prolific scorer, creative genius and an absolute workhorse is unheard of. It is scary how good he can become.

[Sampson]

I remember the 1960 European Cup final being shown on the BBC. It was the first non-English televised games as everyone wanted to see the Real Madrid side hailed as the greatest ever. I can't remember too much about the game, bar being in awe of players like Gento, Di Stefano and Puskas.

European games weren't really shown after that til Celtic got to the final in 1967 and the first time I really got to see the international world renowned players after that was the 1966 World Cup. Apart from Bobby Charlton, Bobby Moore and our very own Gordon Banks of course, who I'd already seen live playing for their club sides, there were the likes of Lev Yashin, Facchetti and Garrincha on show but both had really peaked and Pele was injured, but it was Eusebio who really stood out at that World Cup.

However, the 1970 World Cup was the one I remember best. That Brazilian side were still the best footballing side I've ever seen and Pele still remains the greatest player I've ever seen, people go on about hiss goalscoring record, but it was his skill and vision that really placed him apart from the rest, he could pick out the most impossible passes and skills.

I've not seen much of this Messi everyone is raving about, I have to admit though.

As for George Best, I never quite took into the hype, he blew hot and cold, he could be great one game then poor the next. Almost every time I saw him at City he didn't play well. I always preferred Bobby Charlton and Denis Law in that Man Utd team. Maradona was great also, but again, blew hot and cold too much.

When Pele was on the pitch, you knew it.

[Darkzzz_]

Its tough to pick a greatest of all time without watching them live in their prime. Pele, Best, Cruyff and Beckenbauer were player id have loved to have watched but all became before my time.

My picks from the players ive watched would be

Maradona

Messi

Zidane

Matthaus

I was in awe of the skills Maradona possessed but i fully expect Messi to step alongside him and Pele as the best player the world has ever seen. For a lad of 22 to be a prolific scorer, creative genius and an absolute workhorse is unheard of. It is scary how good he can become.

I wish all passionate England fans were as honest as you Sparky.

[Uncle Albert]

Take the stick out of your arse, Jamie, son.

I just skim-read the thread to pick out some more names because I thought Lofty'd cry if I just purely mocked all of his picks.

Well maybe you should learn to read fully then because I said they were world class players, not the greatest ever and I also said we are currently watching the greatest generation of players, so instead of trying to take the piss out of my picks I suggest you learn to read properly.

[Finnegan]

Well maybe you should learn to read fully then because I said they were world class players, not the greatest ever and I also said we are currently watching the greatest generation of players, so instead of trying to take the piss out of my picks I suggest you learn to read properly.

The point is that you put Messi, wrongly in the opinion I'm stating, in the same category as those people.

[Uncle Albert]

The point is that you put Messi, wrongly in the opinion I'm stating, in the same category as those people.

No I said Messi, Ronaldo, Higauin and Rooney are the best in the world and then Bojan and Aguerro will be in the same league as them, when they get older and develop more.

Then I said the likes of Pato, Lampard, Xavi, Iniesta, Gerrard, Ribery, Robben etc are still world class players but they arent as good as the 4 above. So like I said instead of nitpicking at my posts, read them properly first.

[Darkzzz_]

Messi

Xavi

Iniesta

Ronaldo

Rooney

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

Much as I thought Messi was brilliant on Tuesday, undoubtedly the best player in the world, I still don't think that was the best individual display certainly I've seen in the Champions League.

I remember Henry absolutely destroying Inter at the San Siro in 2003/04. Haven't seen anyone control a game like he did that night since, at least in the Champions League.

[Samilktray]

Thierry Henry is the best player of the last 10 years, just behind Ricardo Fuller.

[Finnegan]

No I said Messi, Ronaldo, Higauin and Rooney are the best in the world

I know. And I said:

I cringe whenever fans of the English game sincerely compare [Messi] to Rooney or Ronaldo in terms of ability and then try and give silly excuses like bigging up the standards of the Prem or whatever. Just watch the lad play. Rooney and Ronaldo will be remembered for all time as two excellent footballers of their generation. Messi will be idolized for decades.

[dandannieldanok]

I remember Henry absolutely destroying Inter at the San Siro in 2003/04. Haven't seen anyone control a game like he did that night since, at least in the Champions League.

I remember that game, you're right Henry was destructive, awesome display.

[Edmund]

I'd have to agree, Henry in his prime was just about on the same level as Messi.

Magical player.

[Guest ttfn]

I just can not agree with that at all.

Henry was good for about 4 years, never world player of the year, never to my mind a runaway player of the year in England.

Messi is something else altogether.

I'd maybe have put Henry at his peak on the same level as Rooney is at now.

Oh, any my general two penneth, I've been following football since about '93, so I can only really comment on players I've seen loads of, but I'd acknowledge that others from pre-'93 should be higher (Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Best etc.)

1) Zidane

2) Ronaldo

3=) Messi

3=) C. Ronaldo

5) Ronaldinho

6) Xavi

7) Keane

8) Henry

9) Rooney

10) Beckham

[Darkzzz_]

I agree, Henry was devastating when on top form and was a joy to watch but on the same level as Messi?, not a chance.

It is worth noting that stunning performance which MTWG brought up, that is certainly one of the greatest CL displays ever. I'd personally say Rooney's debut hat-trick was up there for me too because I was in awe that night of this young man taking to the worlds greatest competition with 3 quality goals.

I'm not going to say anything else, I am fed up with it now. Messi is the best in the world (my opinion) but what do I know, I am full of shit.

[Bugg]

I know it was a long time ago and I don't know a lot about him, but how come no one has put Stanley Matthews on the list? From the videos I have seen of him he looks absolute quality, considering the conditions he was playing in and how much players were kicked to pieces in the game etc. he must be regarded as one of the world's greatest, also he won the ballon d'or at the age of 40 or something which is some achievement.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

Henry was 'good for four years.'

Just good, nothing special though.

[purpleronnie]

I know it was a long time ago and I don't know a lot about him, but how come no one has put Stanley Matthews on the list? From the videos I have seen of him he looks absolute quality, considering the conditions he was playing in and how much players were kicked to pieces in the game etc. he must be regarded as one of the world's greatest, also he won the ballon d'or at the age of 40 or something which is some achievement.

I put him on mine. Spec savers?