EDL (English Defence League)

[poopbutt]

That is homphobia.

I hate all those straight cvnts walking about flaunting their conformity Wise up. You don't define people by their sexuality.

: :

well a lot of gays do seem to define themselves by their homosexuality so...

also @ conforming by being straight.

[Koke]

It's a shame because half of me thinks that the patriotism shown by a minority of the EDL (the section that aren't just out for a scrap) could be usefully harnessed. The government has made a bloody mess refusing to talk about immigration, but if there's a reasonable (i.e. moderately large) cap and people stop worrying about it, it'd be good to see if some of that spirit couldn't be used to help people to integrate instead of indiscriminately lashing out. It would be nice if the mark of a patriot was to proudly welcome someone to 'his' country and look out for them.

Some elements of what EDL are trying to say are valid points - but unfortunately, as I mentioned earlier, they cannot articulate their valid point without coming across as extreme xenophobes. The debate, as usual, and by design, has been polarised into a Left-Right slanging match.

When you lose that sense of community and the national identity (not in the xenophobic sense) but that greater cultural and ethnic bind then the natives will feel victimised - which is fair enough. The problem is they are displaying their anger at the wrong people. The sad thing is nobody wins here. The immigrants become a major drain on those new societies and those seeking a new life become the underclass in their new home. The host society, because of the artificial creation of all these new citizens, will have to put up and shut up with everything, they cannot unite without coming across as a bunch of Nazis [like the EDL for example]. There isn't a sense of "community" any more. All that's left is self-interest and economic co-operation.

The natives lose their voice and the immigrants become a drain in their new home, whilst their native country lose their young workforce. Nobody wins.

[Alexikokopops]

But yeah, as for Islam, I hate it with a passion considering my cousin was killed in 9/11.

And my cousin was murdered in the Ivory Coast. Strangely enough though I don't sit on my computer raging about how Didier Drogba is allowed to play football in England. I'm sorry to hear about your cousin, but using the actions of a handful of Muslims to hate every Muslim that's ever lived is ignorant, and pretty retarded.

[Koke]

My father was murdered in Peterborough by a Welshman. Reckon I should start hating Peterborough and Wales with passion.

[Zingari]

My father was murdered in Peterborough by a Welshman. Reckon I should start hating Peterborough and Wales with passion.

if this is fact , it's truly awful ,

but not really the same thing though is it ?

eg.

if a black person is killed by a welshman from peterborough who was an active BNP member, then there would indeed be no reason to hate the welsh or peterborough ,, but one may be excused from hating all the members of BNP ( whether they are extreme activist members or just Wayne Browns )

so if someone is killed by a member of an extreme islamic organisation , it doesn't take a massive leap of imagination to see what the reaction of many to islam would be .

it's just human nature really , there is no defining line between extreme muslims and the rest , or extreme BNP members and the rest

[Koke]

if this is fact , it's truly awful ,

but not really the same thing though is it ?

eg.

if a black person is killed by a welshman from peterborough who was an active BNP member, then there would indeed be no reason to hate the welsh or peterborough ,, but one may be excused from hating all the members of BNP ( whether they are extreme activist members or just Wayne Browns )

so if someone is killed by a member of an extreme islamic organisation , it doesn't take a massive leap of imagination to see what the reaction of many to islam would be .

it's just human nature really , there is no defining line between extreme muslims and the rest , or extreme BNP members and the rest

It is true. He got killed in 1991.

I take your point, but I still think it's irrational and illogical to make a blanket statement and display hatred over a an entire group of people by the action of a single person, or two.

[FoxyPV]

well a lot of gays do seem to define themselves by their homosexuality so...

also @ conforming by being straight.

They are defined by the rest of society by their sexuality so the commonsense thing would be to wrest this labelling back and make it into a positive thing.

This has all been dicussed here

[Finnegan]

Sorry Zingari but I think you're being a bit daft there. The BNP is, thankfully, still a minnow organization that represents a drop in the water of the universal populace. With about one and a half billion worshipers, Islam is the second biggest religion in the world and possibly the largest actively followed. Making generalizations about Muslim people based on the actions of a tiny, tiny fundamentalist minority is never, ever excusable.

It's sad that I, or anyone else, is still feeling the need to say that.

[Zingari]

i didn't really mean it was "excusable" , but given the scenario of the poster who lost a relative in 911 ,( then human nature being what it is ,) it could be seen as "understandable" ,

[BoneDog]

9/11 was a massive tragedy and a horrible day but I think people are still blaming the wrong people if they think some Muslims did it (some of whom got the blame by the FBI are still alive).

It really is impossible for anyone to do such a thing (unless it was 'allowed'). The biggest clue is that The Pentagon was hit around an hour after the towers. Literally impossible and I think that most people in the world understand this.

[poopbutt]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2010/may/28/english-defence-league-uncovered

[Finnegan]

9/11 was a massive tragedy and a horrible day but I think people are still blaming the wrong people if they think some Muslims did it (some of whom got the blame by the FBI are still alive).

It really is impossible for anyone to do such a thing (unless it was 'allowed'). The biggest clue is that The Pentagon was hit around an hour after the towers. Literally impossible and I think that most people in the world understand this.

While I respect that you are entitled to your opinion and beliefs, it really, really irks me when people go out of their (and the conversation's) way to drag conspiracy theories needlessly into a debate.

[AoWW]

While I respect that you are entitled to your opinion and beliefs, it really, really irks me when people go out of their (and the conversation's) way to drag conspiracy theories needlessly into a debate.

Sorry, I just got this mental image of a 'really, really irked' Finners. Twas scary!

[BoneDog]

While I respect that you are entitled to your opinion and beliefs, it really, really irks me when people go out of their (and the conversation's) way to drag conspiracy theories needlessly into a debate.

I wasn't going out of my way, someone mentioned that Muslims were to blame for 9/11 and I just made the point that they weren't.

[Finnegan]

I wasn't going out of my way, someone mentioned that Muslims were to blame for 9/11 and I just made the point that they weren't.

Which might have been relevant or to the point if this was a well known fact and not some pathetic fringe belief that a staggeringly small minority of the world's intelligent people actually believe in and demeaned the happenings of 9/11 to such a level that it becomes both insensitive and disrespectful.

The WTC wasn't in question. Whether or not it's right to judge all Islamic persons by the "standards" of fundamentalist terror organizations is.

[BoneDog]

Which might have been relevant or to the point if this was a well known fact and not some pathetic fringe belief that a staggeringly small minority of the world's intelligent people actually believe in and demeaned the happenings of 9/11 to such a level that it becomes both insensitive and disrespectful.

The WTC wasn't in question. Whether or not it's right to judge all Islamic persons by the "standards" of fundamentalist terror organizations is.

It is relevant whether you think so or not. And it is a well known fact that the official story doesn't add up at all. I don't know where you get your figures from when you say that 'a staggering small minority of the worlds intelligent people believe it', but they are wrong. The intelligent people who don't believe it are probably the ones who either haven't looked into it or read much about it or the ones who couldn't give a shit either way cos they're not interested.

And it isn't disrespectful or insensitive to want to know the truth. I think that the people who are involved in this care more about the victims and consequences more than most do.

You believe Bush and co's version of events is correct and that's up to you, but you're wrong and I'm sure history will show it one day.

[ozleicester]

While I respect that you are entitled to your opinion and beliefs, it really, really irks me when people go out of their (and the conversation's) way to drag conspiracy theories needlessly into a debate.

i want to know who is behind this attempt by "Finnegan" (i assume not his/her real name (typical)) to derail a perfectly reasonable conspiracy theory discussion??

[Fosse Boy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKOmTRbo0Rw

From the EDL website:

Activities: Are the EDL Violent?

We have organised a series of peaceful protests across the country. Unfortunately, some of these have been disrupted by self-proclaimed yet clearly misguided anti-fascists and gangs of Muslim youth whipped up by the extremist preachers we oppose. These gangs have come armed and attacked our members, the police officers trying to protect us, and even random members of the public. We respect the police and the job they have to do, which is why we will not be returning to Birmingham for the foreseeable future. The Muslim gangs of the city are too violent, and we wish to avoid clashes and putting officers, our members and the public at risk.

Yeah, suuuuuuuuuuure...

[Shrenchel]

To be fair, they really needed a slap.

[Guest Bilo]

Extremist waste-of-sperm bigoted cvnts take on Extremist waste-of-sperm bigoted cvnts.

The winner? Society.

[poopbutt]

Extremist waste-of-sperm bigoted cvnts take on Extremist waste-of-sperm bigoted cvnts.

The winner? Society.

if they were to all die then yes society would win

[BradFLCFC]

Hopefully feel i can add some input into this topic. I know alot of people who are involved in the EDL an LCFC alike , and like it or not, our club (a minority) are involved in the EDL Leicester. And i know many who will be attended the march in september. Unfortunatley this country has got into a state where people feel groups such as BNP and EDL are a last option and the EDL is linked with Hooliganism aswell. And i would advise anyone planning to spectate the march in Leicester to stay well away. As because of Leicesters diverse city many Muslims and Anti-EDL groups will clash, I've seen it happen first hand in Nottingham and it can get pretty grim.

My main point of this post is because ive seen many post calling these EDL member , Mindless thugs etc, yet belive it or not many member are not who you would expect , like i i said the member i know , have in some way developed a hate for Islam Extremist and have channeled this through EDL. Yet if people do attend the march than not only will you see SteroTypical thugs you will also see normal people who feel they have lost their voice. And instead of acting angrily in a tirade of abuse let them relaise what they're doing isnt exactly the right way . And hopefully numbers will decrease. We live in a Democracy and right or wrong these people including Wayne Brown are allowed to have there veiws.

I hope many of you understand this post and replies would be welcomed

[Trav Le Bleu]

I'm just amazed this thread is still going!

[acooling08]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKOmTRbo0Rw

From the EDL website:

Yeah, suuuuuuuuuuure...

The video has been removed mate, but if it is about Muslim protestors screaming profanities at our soldiers, then they deserve a good kicking. If thats even whats in the video anyway.

[Guest Bilo]

Just saw this video on the Leicester UAF Facebook page.

Anyone still doubting they're full of racist ******?