Can a manager survive relegation?

[ozleicester]

Thinking about Hull and sacking of Brown. In the current climate can any manager survive leading his team to relegation?

Lets imagine NP does what we all pretty much assumed to be the impossible and leads us back into the premiership next year, incredible results sees us go from league 1 to prem in 2 years.

Suddenly we are in the prem and whilst playing with all they have, the team isnt quite up to standard. As the season draws to a close it seem inevitable that we will be relegated.

Does NP get given the benefit of his success and loyalty in the preceeding years and is retained as manager to prepare the next seasons assault on a return to the prem, or does MM sack him and grab the current unemployed ex prem manager of the month?

Maybe we shouldnt focus this on LCFC and NP... but can any manager survive relegation?

[Jimothy]

Alex McLeish survived it at Birmingham couple of seasons back. Seems like it was a good idea sticking by him. Thats pretty rare though, I can't think of many others that haven't either been sacked or walked away. I would say it's down to the chairman, but it seems most chairman have the same view - "Take us down and you're out of a job."

[Matt]

I'd like to say yes, given the example you have made, however in reality and most cases I think the answer is sadly no.

Some of our fans (A minority) have been murmuring abit last season and this season when we have stumbled slightly, and with a chairman like MM I think i'd be hard for any manager to survive despite having had 2 good seasons a run of bad results and he'd be gone. It's not just our fans and MM, I think it's quite common in the game throughout.

Micky Adams for example (And i'm probably going to be shot down by some on here now) walked before he was pushed - I know we were back in the Championship when he resigned but I think we were 11th when he resigned? The reason most were on his back was because he got us relegated from the Premiership - What did people honestly expect? Fair enough he liked his old players, experience and it was hardly the most exciting, but it worked, and with no money and the situation the club was in he did well to do what he was doing, Only a season and half before he resigned people were desperate for him to sign a new contract, some dubbing him the new MON, Personally he was the best manager since MON for us (No where near MON status, but not hard Peter Taylor and Dave Bassett were the managers after MON) and he was the best we had up until Nigel Pearson has come for us (Nigel Pearson is better than Micky Adams no question).

Realistically most managers are 4 or 5 games from the sack even if they are currently in a good run.

[Fosse Boy]

Wish I could say yes, but football is run by those who cower to the foaming uneducated masses who phone local radio in this day and age.

[RowlattsFox]

A manager should be given at least a season in the league after promotion, Phil Brown was given that and kept them up, just. In the second season, if results still haven't improved then the club has every right to sack the manager, you cant just keep faith with a manager because he got you promoted, not all the time. I think Hull have made the right decision to have a chance of staying up.

[Alexikokopops]

Micky Adams for example (And i'm probably going to be shot down by some on here now) walked before he was pushed - I know we were back in the Championship when he resigned but I think we were 11th when he resigned? The reason most were on his back was because he got us relegated from the Premiership - What did people honestly expect? Fair enough he liked his old players, experience and it was hardly the most exciting, but it worked, and with no money and the situation the club was in he did well to do what he was doing, Only a season and half before he resigned people were desperate for him to sign a new contract, some dubbing him the new MON, Personally he was the best manager since MON for us (No where near MON status, but not hard Peter Taylor and Dave Bassett were the managers after MON) and he was the best we had up until Nigel Pearson has come for us (Nigel Pearson is better than Micky Adams no question).

Realistically most managers are 4 or 5 games from the sack even if they are currently in a good run.

I thought people were disgruntled with Adams not because of relegation, but because after it he said something along the lines of "don't talk to me about the play-offs" and claimed we were going to get automatic promotion. He was judged by the standards he set himself.

Edit: Just to say, I could be wrong and entirely fabricating this, but I seem to remember something along those lines.

[Matt]

I thought people were disgruntled with Adams not because of relegation, but because after it he said something along the lines of "don't talk to me about the play-offs" and claimed we were going to get automatic promotion. He was judged by the standards he set himself.

Edit: Just to say, I could be wrong and entirely fabricating this, but I seem to remember something along those lines.

Hmmm now you say it you could be right, It does ring a bell, however we all know what a silly league the Championship is 2 or 3 wins could put you right up the top of the league 1 or 2 losses and you could be in a relegation battle, and if i'm right in saying we were 11th (I'm sure we were around 11th when he left) its hardly far off the play-offs or automatic promotion. You live and die by your results and your own talk to the media to some extent and if he did say that he was a tad silly, still i'd rather have had him in charge for a little bit longer and have saved some time and effort rather than appointing some of the jokers that followed him.

[dandannieldanok]

Tony Mowbray not only survived relegation, but was poached for a massive job. Manager's survive if they've perceived to have got as much as they can out of the squad and the resources. Plenty have survived before, plenty more will.

I thought people were disgruntled with Adams not because of relegation, but because after it he said something along the lines of "don't talk to me about the play-offs" and claimed we were going to get automatic promotion. He was judged by the standards he set himself.

Edit: Just to say, I could be wrong and entirely fabricating this, but I seem to remember something along those lines.

I dont' know whether that's right or wrong.....but if it is right then what was wrong with Adams angling for automatic promotion? We we're top half after about 10/11/12 games, still 30 odd games to go.

Those disgruntled people need to look at how we did after Adams left: the next time we ever got to the top half half of the championship was under Pearson this season. Fact. Years wasted, millions wasted, under dross managers not fit to tie Adams' shoelaces. I personally can't believe how moronic the majority of the fans were in that period. Adams may have technically walked before he was pushed, but his position was virutally untenable with the behaviour of 90% of the fans.

[shen]

Of course they can. Mowbray, McLeish, Coppell, Boothroyd all 'survived' and some will say Southgate got a chance. If Coyle had stayed on he would probably have had a job for lifetime anyway. The cases brought up in this thread (Brown and Adams) are cases where both managers have had time and ressources to achieve a goal. Hull have been poor for what is effectively more than a season now. If it was 'flukey' that they got promoted, it was an even bigger slice of luck to stay up last year. Despite survival and the extra cash, Brown has failed to deliver especially on the transfer market. Having spent a lot of money on Bullard who's been spending more time on the treatment table than off it (which was predictable), but also on acquiring Ghilas, Jan V/H, Altidore and Zaki who have found the net a staggering FIVE times IN ALL, has shown that Brown is poor in the transfer market. Not even mentioning the defensive players he's acquired. His infamous half-time team talk did them no good either and lately Wayne Brown's interview further suggested that he's not very good at dealing with the players. In retrospect it's a surprise Brown hasn't been sacked earlier!

As for Adams, he was largely in the same category having not performed well for over a season. He gambled on our return to the Prem and some would say we would've survived with a bit of luck (while others will have put it down to a lack of fitness and cool nerves). It certainly wasn't the signings of Ferdinand, Thatcher or Bent that sent us down, so he certainly enjoyed better fortunes than Brown in the transfer market during our time there. I'd hazard a guess that if it wasn't for them and especially Izzet we would've been relegated by March! But as others have mentioned, he fell victim of his own 'high' standards the next season, having underperformed with another batch of expensive 'gambles'. The whole La Manga incident and turmoil around the club surely did him no good either personally and it might well have been a genuine resignation following disillusionment.

[Webbo]

I liked Micky Adams and I was glad that he resigned and we didn't have to sack him because he deserved better than that but the fact is he'd lost the plot. We were going backwards as a team and didn't look anything like promotion candidates.

[Heart-Shaped Fox]

Looking back, under Adams we should have stayed up int he Prem that season and maybe things could have been so different. But the point is we didnt and unfortunately for him we had no money so had to sign even more free transfers, but this time he wasnt as so successful. He probably should have been given more time by the fans though, it was only October he left.

I think all managers should get the chacne at least to get the team back up following relegation. As someone has already said McCleish has done this as did Steve Bruce who also was able to do the same at Brum.

In Phil Browns case, I think the fact is that Hull havent improved from last season at all, or if anything are going to be worse off in terms of points at the end of the season. But he did get them up so it can be argued he too deserves the chance to get them back up.

But why get rid of him in March surely they shoiuld have got rid of him at Xmas like Bolton did with Megson.

[Salieri]

If Nige took us to second successive promotion but got us relegated in his first season up, it would be a travesty in my opinion if he wasnt given at least a season to try to get us back up. Otherwise,for me,he would be a victim of his own success.

The question is though, would Nige last the season if we were struggling in the Prem? I suppose a lot would depend on how much Milan had backed him financially and exactly how poorly we were performing in the Prem (i.e 'doin a Derby!')

Of course a manager can survive relegation, as have some of the names mentioned in previous posts, but it's sadly pretty rare. As for Phil Brown, his record for the second half of last season combined with this season make for very poor reading and he cant ave too many complaints in getting the boot.

Think i'll stop writing now before i go off on any more tangents!

[DJ Barry Hammond]

I think Brown built his own demise really, and it that situation, as I understand, Hull would be in dire straights (finacially, not Mark Knopfler) if they go down, and may still be even if they stay up.

I think even MM has a realistic streak in him and would realise that the best option on promotion is to spend a little but not blow the bank on staying up? Although if we did up, who's to say MM will still be chairman and/or Pearson wouldn't have moved on come the end of the season.

[dandannieldanok]

I liked Micky Adams and I was glad that he resigned and we didn't have to sack him because he deserved better than that but the fact is he'd lost the plot. We were going backwards as a team and didn't look anything like promotion candidates.

So 11th place and he'd lost the plot? I dread to think what you're calling the likes of Levein, Kelly, Holloway et al. who found 11th place a distant dream whilst at the club.