An interesting theory from Souness on England

[James.]

Can't see this anywhere else. To be honest it does explain quite a lot, interesting...

The Real Reason Why England Are In Trouble

[dandannieldanok]

Definitely something in that theory, all of the England players have looked tired well inside the first half. However watertight the theory is though, it can't be used to disguise some of the technical frailties that England have displayed so far.

[James.]

Definitely something in that theory, all of the England players have looked tired well inside the first half. However watertight the theory is though, it can't be used to disguise some of the technical frailties that England have displayed so far.

Our technical frailties have been evident during this tournament and previous ones but are normally covered up by playing a high tempo direct game. However we are now not able to do this as effectively given the effects of living at altitude on the players fitness.

It all kind of makes sense.

[Jon the Hat]

Worrying.

[Fosse Fox]

Our technical frailties have been evident during this tournament and previous ones but are normally covered up by playing a high tempo direct game. However we are now not able to do this as effectively given the effects of living at altitude on the players fitness.

It all kind of makes sense.

No it doesn't, it's a bit of a red herring - Souness distorts the facts to suit his argument. He would be on much firmer ground if he focused on player burn out (physical and psychological) but that too would be considerably less than half the story.

Souness's suggestion that England have tended to be second to the ball is highly subjective and not borne out by the match stats. England dominated both games (one at altitude the other at sea level) in terms of territory, possession and chances created. And Englands 'failures' in both games were ones with which we are all too familiar.

Souness conveniently does not mention the preparation of the other teams in our group. Whilst all our opponents enjoy certain topographical advantages within their borders it is not altogether clear whether these were fully exploited or whether they had the medical expertise/sports science to back up their preparations (in this respect England's resources are amongst the best in the world).

Another area where the Jock disabled gets it wrong is his inference that after a long period at altitude England physically were debiliitated and therefore not fit to play at sea level. Theoretically, this is bullshit. What he is in effect saying is that track athletes are wasting their time training at altitude in order to compete at sea level. The cardiovascular advantages enjoyed by athletes who have just arrived at sea level from altitude are well documented and incontrovertible (although they last for only a short period).

England prepared extensively for altitude in Austria and whilst not among the earliest arrivals in South Africa were certainly not among the last. Whilst England's pressing style is not suited to altitude (as I have often said in the past in answer to those who thought that we would benefit from the climate) it usually comes off second best anyway to qualiy passing opposition at home or away, in either temperate or tropical zones at sea level or altitude.

Souness is playing to the gallery here, a celtic 'anyone but England' audience that are only too eager to take pleasure in England's misfortune and therefore ripe enough for a bit of hoodwinking. The point is that Souness, along with all the other fcukwit ex player pundits, is unwittingly covering up the main reasons for England's disappointing results thus far.

And these are squad and team selections.

[Webbo]

Souness is playing to the gallery here, a celtic 'anyone but England' audience

Is that why RTE hired an ex Rangers player/manager?

[purpleronnie]

We cant admit our players aren't good enough.

[Babylon]

Another area where the Jock disabled gets it wrong is his inference that after a long period at altitude England physically were debiliitated and therefore not fit to play at sea level. Theoretically, this is bullshit. What he is in effect saying is that track athletes are wasting their time training at altitude in order to compete at sea level. The cardiovascular advantages enjoyed by athletes who have just arrived at sea level from altitude are well documented and incontrovertible (although they last for only a short period).

England prepared extensively for altitude in Austria and whilst not among the earliest arrivals in South Africa were certainly not among the last. Whilst England's pressing style is not suited to altitude (as I have often said in the past in answer to those who thought that we would benefit from the climate) it usually comes off second best anyway to qualiy passing opposition at home or away, in either temperate or tropical zones at sea level or altitude.

Did you not watch the second video? He clearly says that he felt the benefits of altitude training and that the England players will on their return next year. He's saying that training at altitude shatters you before it can build you back up again stronger.

[Shrenchel]

Did you not watch the second video? He clearly says that he felt the benefits of altitude training and that the England players will on their return next year. He's saying that training at altitude shatters you before it can build you back up again stronger.

Yeah he says it takes 4 weeks until your body stops struggling and starts benefiting from the altitude. England went to Austria on the 17th of May, so shouldve hit form about last Monday according to his own theory.

[Fosse Fox]

Is that why RTE hired an ex Rangers player/manager?

Who married a Catholic and, I believe, was the first Rngers manager to sign a Catholic (might be wrong here...)

[Webbo]

Who married a Catholic and, I believe, was the first Rngers manager to sign a Catholic (might be wrong here...)

So you're saying that he's popular with Celtic fans then?

[Babylon]

Yeah he says it takes 4 weeks until your body stops struggling and starts benefiting from the altitude. England went to Austria on the 17th of May, so shouldve hit form about last Monday according to his own theory.

Maybe in the next match they will be running about at 100mph all game.

[James.]

Altitude isn't an exact science. All players will react differently and adjust at different rates. So whilst I don't for one second think this completely explains our poor performances I think there is enough to it to suggest it may be a contributing factor. I don't think the blatant lethargy and lack of urgency can be fully adequately explained otherwise.

[Sparky]

Who married a Catholic and, I believe, was the first Rngers manager to sign a Catholic (might be wrong here...)

Yeh i always thought that, Mo Johnston ?

Ill check it out

[Sparky]

Yeh i always thought that, Mo Johnston ?

Ill check it out

Correct to a certain extent

Graeme Souness signed former Celtic player Mo Johnston, in 1989, Rangers were said by him to have had an "unwritten policy"^[38] of not signing any player who was Catholic;^[39] although Johnston was by no means the first Catholic to sign for the club,^[40] he was the first openly Catholic, high-profile player to sign for them since World War I

[Alexikokopops]

Germany are training at a similar altitude in Pretoria. They won their first game 4-0, and even though they lost to Serbia, they still created a host of chances and missed a penalty for the first time since 1974. They certainly haven't looked lethargic, and I'm willing to bet they don't in their game against Ghana either.

[Fosse Fox]

Did you not watch the second video? He clearly says that he felt the benefits of altitude training and that the England players will on their return next year. He's saying that training at altitude shatters you before it can build you back up again stronger.

Mea culpa. However...

I might be wrong here (again) but England had four weeks at altitude before facing the US (at altitude) - cutting it a bit fine but that should have been enough. Whilst their performance might have been lacking in ideas, style and finishing, it did not lack in spirit, energy and effort.

Their physical performance against Algeria was not as good However, this deficit was almost certainly nothing to do with the effects of altitude. They were outplayed largely for the first 30 minutes rather than the last. They were playing at sea level having just arrived from altitude and this is when the benfits are most apparent. It's possible they needed slightly longer to recover from playing the US at alltitude but I think general burn out and low morale are more likely explanations for the disappointing result (as well as a spirted rearguard action by the Algerians).

As for the England players being fitter for next season as a result of their experience at altitude Souness is almost certainly wrong - the benefits are very short lived and, if anything, they will be shattered by their exertions.

[Fosse Fox]

So you're saying that he's popular with Celtic fans then?

celtic, (pro Keltic) adj derived from noun celt - North European ethnic group largely confined to Republic of Ireland and extremities of UK.

Celtic (pro Seltic) noun - shit team playing in Jock Square Conference (managed by ex Fox balding ginger nut)

[CosbehFox]

As anyone seen the documentatory (sp!) with the British Lions last summer in South Africa?

They trained outside of altitude and then arrived on the day of the game, so their body never felt the affects. Tbf, they coped incredibly well...playing out a superb test series and eventually gaining some pride. These are massive physical encounters with players averaging 7 miles a match run.

Secondarily, they also did lots of testing at Loughborough University of the players running at altitude (or similar air tightness), I can't believe we didn't at least try this.

[Edmund]

We cant admit our players aren't good enough.

Pretty much this. How can Souness say it has nothing to do with formations and tactics. Laughable.

Germany are training at a similar altitude in Pretoria. They won their first game 4-0, and even though they lost to Serbia, they still created a host of chances and missed a penalty for the first time since 1974. They certainly haven't looked lethargic, and I'm willing to bet they don't in their game against Ghana either.

Exactly.

Every other team is in the same boat.

[AyewJoking]

So high altitude basically makes your players play like they dont give a crap?

He's entitled to his opinion

[Zingari]

problem is attitude not altitude

[davieG]

problem is attitude not altitude

Not forgetting a lack of aptitude.

[James.]

I think there are so many variables that you can't really write off the theory just because another team hasn't appeared to suffer. At the same time, and as I said before, it's silly to think this is the only reason for the shambles on Friday but I still think there's something to it.

Anyway it's very difficult to prove or disprove so let's just hope its credibility is dealt a big blow with a crushing victory for England tomorrow.

[Head Honcho]

Altitude isn't an exact science. All players will react differently and adjust at different rates. So whilst I don't for one second think this completely explains our poor performances I think there is enough to it to suggest it may be a contributing factor. I don't think the blatant lethargy and lack of urgency can be fully adequately explained otherwise.

I agree, it must have something to do with it, but then again it's been the same for Algeria and The USA.

Although both of these countries have high altitudes they don't play at high altitude and as far as I'm aware haven't prepared any different to the English.

If the 3 week issue is true then the FA have made a monumental fvck up in not allowing the players to adapt to altitude before the tournament started.................saying that I can't see fans of the top clubs being too pleased about losing their England players a few weeks before the end of the season either!