Steve Howard

[The Doctor]

Some people dont see the "behind the scenes" work he puts in sometimes. He will never score many goals but we need him in the side at the moment. We started DJ and Fryatt against palace and they were awful. As soon as howard came on he changed the game.He provides something no one we have does. The only time when I get annoyed with him though is when he doesn't get back onside quickly.

exactly this. He doesn't score many or create many in the "played the pass to set he goalscorer in" sense but more just draws defenders to him leaving space for the likes of fryatt and king to profit from.

I really would like us to be less dependent on him and the long ball foward, even under sousa and his passing, good build up game - unless sousa has decided that isn't working and resorted to the long ball?

[HonradaRaposa]

Some people dont see the "behind the scenes" work he puts in sometimes. He will never score many goals but we need him in the side at the moment. We started DJ and Fryatt against palace and they were awful. As soon as howard came on he changed the game.He provides something no one we have does. The only time when I get annoyed with him though is when he doesn't get back onside quickly.

Whats your opinion of Heskey...... honestly?

Here we go again, fans defending mediocre/rubbish footballers. Howard is awful he was awful when he arrived, muddled around League One, pretty shabby for the majority of last season and here we go again this season.

As for Heskey, Howard isn't fit to be mentioned int he same breath as Emile there is gulf in class between them so big it can't be described.

[Jon25747]

exactly this. He doesn't score many or create many in the "played the pass to set he goalscorer in" sense but more just draws defenders to him leaving space for the likes of fryatt and king to profit from.

I really would like us to be less dependent on him and the long ball foward, even under sousa and his passing, good build up game - unless sousa has decided that isn't working and resorted to the long ball?

We were lumping it in the first half yesterday, which did not work in the slightest. I was told that Gally and Howard worked well at Leeds but they looked clueless together yesterday

[Jon25747]

Here we go again, fans defending mediocre/rubbish footballers. Howard is awful he was awful when he arrived, muddled around League One, pretty shabby for the majority of last season and here we go again this season.

As for Heskey, Howard isn't fit to be mentioned int he same breath as Emile there is gulf in class between them so big it can't be described.

It looks like we are gonna have to agree to disagree. In my opinion he puts in a hell of a lot of effort for a guy of his stature and his age. He helps build play and brings in others around him. For example, he played the ball to dyer out wide to set up a move yesterday countless times, comparing that to wellens who tries the hollywood pass far too often.

[leftsideoverhere]

All the people calling Howard crap or lazy or useless or whatever, two points:

1. His pass to DJ at Palace.

2. His chested and headed knock downs to King and Gally throughout the second half at Leeds.

'Nuff said.

[Fox You Forest]

I wouldn't call him crap and he could be useful in some capacity but we certainly need to be looking for better.

[Wdywd]

All the people calling Howard crap or lazy or useless or whatever, two points:

1. His pass to DJ at Palace.

2. His chested and headed knock downs to King and Gally throughout the second half at Leeds.

'Nuff said.

fook me, 2 good things this season, no wonder he's getting a new contract.

As I've said, I can see the worth of a player like him. But saying 'well he did this thing good once' is not good enough for me. A lot of the reason we play shit without him is because the team still insists on smashing it long, which is clearly a massive failure on the rest of the team's part. Solve that problem and you solve the problem of having to play Howard every game.

Everyone who is suggesting we MUST PLAY HIM OR WE'LL GET RELEGATED is forgetting that for months in the middle of last season he got nowhere near the team, and we did alright then.

And another thing, people suggesting 'passion' is some sort of fantastic quality really annoys me. Iain Hume had passion, but he was utter shit, missed hundreds of chances and was one main reason we went down. Someone like Fryatt, or King doesn't show 'passion', they just do their job. That is far better for the team than some cunt going mental at the end of the game and lunging in on someone, then storming off screaming when a decision goes against him.

[BNET]

fook me, 2 good things this season, no wonder he's getting a new contract.

As I've said, I can see the worth of a player like him. But saying 'well he did this thing good once' is not good enough for me. A lot of the reason we play shit without him is because the team still insists on smashing it long, which is clearly a massive failure on the rest of the team's part. Solve that problem and you solve the problem of having to play Howard every game.

Everyone who is suggesting we MUST PLAY HIM OR WE'LL GET RELEGATED is forgetting that for months in the middle of last season he got nowhere near the team, and we did alright then.

And another thing, people suggesting 'passion' is some sort of fantastic quality really annoys me. Iain Hume had passion, but he was utter shit, missed hundreds of chances and was one main reason we went down. Someone like Fryatt, or King doesn't show 'passion', they just do their job. That is far better for the team than some cunt going mental at the end of the game and lunging in on someone, then storming off screaming when a decision goes against him.

He's crap and if anyone can't see it they are blind.

[Scow]

Fine in a 4-4-2, but lacks mobility and pace in a 4-3-3/4-5-1. I do agree with the view that he's probably best used as an impact player.

People who know football understand what he brings to the side.

[BNET]

Fine in a 4-4-2, but lacks mobility and pace in a 4-3-3/4-5-1. I do agree with the view that he's probably best used as an impact player.

People who know football understand what he brings to the side.

He'd be best used as Filbert the Fox.

[lcfcsnow]

He'd be best used as Filbert the Fox.

He is good at waving his arms about.

[Wymsey]

It is because we have players of his standard we are second bottom of the league.

He is rubbish.

Agree. Look at Reading's, Hull's, Forest's, Burnley's strikers and theirs are have much better football qualities than Stevie. Off topic but if Fryatt and DJ do go today/tomorrow Stevie our only real striker apart from Kermie and we can't possibly rely on Howard to score/create all the goals from then.

[The Doctor]

Agree. Look at Reading's, Hull's, Forest's, Burnley's strikers and theirs are have much better football qualities than Stevie. Off topic but if Fryatt and DJ do go today/tomorrow Stevie our only real striker apart from Kermie and we can't possibly rely on Howard to score/create all the goals from then.

you do realise kermorgant is out on loan with some french club.

[Wymsey]

i do large Al yes

you do realise kermorgant is out on loan with some french club.

Yes i do

[marbelladave]

Some people dont see the "behind the scenes" work he puts in sometimes. He will never score many goals but we need him in the side at the moment. We started DJ and Fryatt against palace and they were awful. As soon as howard came on he changed the game.He provides something no one we have does. The only time when I get annoyed with him though is when he doesn't get back onside quickly.

Whats your opinion of Heskey...... honestly?

Not true!

The game changed after halftime and before the subs were made. Palace sat back and we got after them, scoring the first goal in less than 10 minutes. When Howard and Wellens came on it slowed up our play and despite plenty of possession we were predictable and it took us nearly 30 minutes to get the second goal.

Howard (and for that matter Wellens) make our play easy to read so we are unable to make clear chances despite the pressure, exactly the same as on saturday. Although we pressed hard we had no cutting edge because our attacking play was predictable and far too slow, passes were either chipped long giving the defence plenty of time or whe we played short passes it was agaist a defence that was well set. The result was that decent chances were few and far between and our strikers are not sharp enough to convert the half chances that were made.

Much as I love Emile he is part of city's past, he could probably 'do a job' for us but we just end up with a 'better Howard', ie still slow, predictable and not much of a goalscorer. We need something different, a DJ quality striker without the baggage.

[kimsalabim]

I love Steve but we'll NEVER be a 'passing' (woooooo passing) side with him in the side.

Passing side? To be fair i would rather pump long balls to the big man up fron if it will bring back what we were doing last season.

Passing side? Yeah passing our way to league one... One point form 12 with the players we've got is pathetic.

Oh yeah, Steve Howard. Always plays with passion, have you people got short memories or what? remember 3-4 seasons ago when we were doing nothing with players that we even used to tell that they were not fit to wear the shirt. A player (who in general has been very good for this club) gets slated because he plays for the shirt with pride and passion, yes he has a temper, but don't a lot of strong center forwards have one? probably due to the fact they get kicked to bits every game. He brings power and height to our attack and is a good old fashioned "target Man." to let him go would be a big mistake, because anyone who thinks this squad will get anywhere near where we were last season by "getting the ball on the deck" and "playing "the beautiful game" are sadly, ridiculously deluded.

That includes you Mr Sousa.

SORT IT.

[teblin]

Not true!

The game changed after halftime and before the subs were made. Palace sat back and we got after them, scoring the first goal in less than 10 minutes. When Howard and Wellens came on it slowed up our play and despite plenty of possession we were predictable and it took us nearly 30 minutes to get the second goal.

Howard (and for that matter Wellens) make our play easy to read so we are unable to make clear chances despite the pressure, exactly the same as on saturday. Although we pressed hard we had no cutting edge because our attacking play was predictable and far too slow, passes were either chipped long giving the defence plenty of time or whe we played short passes it was agaist a defence that was well set. The result was that decent chances were few and far between and our strikers are not sharp enough to convert the half chances that were made.

Much as I love Emile he is part of city's past, he could probably 'do a job' for us but we just end up with a 'better Howard', ie still slow, predictable and not much of a goalscorer. We need something different, a DJ quality striker without the baggage.

I'd prefer better as i'm a season ticket holder and never saw the guy score!

[Thracian]

Passing side? To be fair i would rather pump long balls to the big man up fron if it will bring back what we were doing last season.

Passing side? Yeah passing our way to league one... One point form 12 with the players we've got is pathetic.

Oh yeah, Steve Howard. Always plays with passion, have you people got short memories or what? remember 3-4 seasons ago when we were doing nothing with players that we even used to tell that they were not fit to wear the shirt. A player (who in general has been very good for this club) gets slated because he plays for the shirt with pride and passion, yes he has a temper, but don't a lot of strong center forwards have one? probably due to the fact they get kicked to bits every game. He brings power and height to our attack and is a good old fashioned "target Man." to let him go would be a big mistake, because anyone who thinks this squad will get anywhere near where we were last season by "getting the ball on the deck" and "playing "the beautiful game" are sadly, ridiculously deluded.

That includes you Mr Sousa.

SORT IT.

We got nowhere last season. We finished fifth and scored too few goals to make any real impression. Much of our football was laborious, slow and unimaginative to the point where we hardly had a meaningful shot at all in some matches Why don't you look at what Leeds managed with a passing game under Revie or Spurs under Nicholson? And take your blinkers off while you do so.

Passing is the way forward and the only way we'll ever stay in the The Premiership because if you go giving the ball away at that level you'll get murdered. Unfortunately Sousa seems to think that passing football doesn't require us to be fit enough, fast enough and strong enough to get the ball first nor does he seem to recognise the need for us to take effective and imaginative free kicks and corners which can be the source of so many goals.

Football matches are won by attending to details. We have already had two perfectly good goals ruled out which, had they counted, would have left us in a perfectly acceptable position while the manager continues to make his transition to proper football. But, for all that, he has been naive and that is what worries me far more than his desire to change our style. Cos that's been needed for years.

[Finnegan]

I hate all this 'you need a Steve Howard' bullshit. I don't 'miss what he's doing,' he's a brick shithouse not a ninja; there isn't some sort of hidden subtlety to his game that only those who like him see. He's just a number nine, a target man, that is all. And he's an average one at that; not terrible, not essential. He doesn't have to be 'vital' there are styles of football that do not need some big oaf upfront and we have midfield personnel good enough to implement them.

[RowlattsFox]

Steve Howard should be used as impact substitute this season, he does good things but if we're going to play Sousa's favoured formation then Howard will not score enough goals. Too much pressure on the wide players and King to chip in.

Also love how Howard manages to get 8s in rating threads just for winning a few headers, when he's in the team people want him out but as soon as out the side people want him back in.

[kimsalabim]

We got nowhere last season. We finished fifth and scored too few goals to make any real impression. Much of our football was laborious, slow and unimaginative to the point where we hardly had a meaningful shot at all in some matches Why don't you look at what Leeds managed with a passing game under Revie or Spurs under Nicholson? And take your blinkers off while you do so.

Passing is the way forward and the only way we'll ever stay in the The Premiership because if you go giving the ball away at that level you'll get murdered. Unfortunately Sousa seems to think that passing football doesn't require us to be fit enough, fast enough and strong enough to get the ball first nor does he seem to recognise the need for us to take effective and imaginative free kicks and corners which can be the source of so many goals.

Football matches are won by attending to details. We have already had two perfectly good goals ruled out which, had they counted, would have left us in a perfectly acceptable position while the manager continues to make his transition to proper football. But, for all that, he has been naive and that is what worries me far more than his desire to change our style. Cos that's been needed for years.

Good reply. Totally agree with the part I have highlighted. Although last season we got a damn sight further than we had for many years. We did play a slow, laborious game, which sometimes was painful to watch. However what we did do was, (by and large) get results. I wouldn't say we would be in an acceptable position either, (This club deserves to be challenging to play Premiership football) we were 2-1 down at home to Reading when we got that goal chalked off. The Middlesbrough game, fair enough, we played well and deserved to win, but really, to make an impact, we should be hitting the net more than once. Keeping the ball on the floor and passing it around is all well and good, and yes it is the way forward, but have we got a team of players that can do that?

Quite honestly i think we need to learn the art of winning ugly again. You have a point about the fitness levels (Which as much as we slate him now, were never really a problem under NP) I just don't think that some of our players have either the pace or guile to play the type of game they are asked to play under PS.

Definitely agree with the point about the premier league, but we have to win (or damn near) win the championship before we get to play there. Without being able to grit it out, get stuck in and defend properly, we don't stand a chance of puttin any theory to the test. We have conceded far too many goals, and as for the Reading game, yes we were unlucky not to get a point, but can you really expect to win many games when you give away 2 goals?

Last season's TOP 6 FINISH was built on a good, steady defence (ok we had a bit of an off day against forest ) but by and large last season, teams struggled to break us down. This season we look exposed, and to be fair, we are using pretty much the same players at the back, so really it has to be a tactical problem. (Either that or the players aren't up for it). And god help us if it's the latter.

I am just a little bit worried because if we are in the bottom 3 after another 10 games, MM will get the itchy trigger finger, and we might be looking for a new boss, with nothing to play for for the season.

I am not saying i want Sousa out, but who wouldn't be deeply disappointed with the start we have had?

[Heart-Shaped Fox]

I think he is just better against some teams than others, sometimes he should start, other times he should come off the bench if we are struggling.

His experience is invaluable to the team and he never lacks passion.

To say he is past it is crazy, just look at how he performed in the playoff vs Cardiff.

[kimsalabim]

I hate all this 'you need a Steve Howard' bullshit. I don't 'miss what he's doing,' he's a brick shithouse not a ninja; there isn't some sort of hidden subtlety to his game that only those who like him see. He's just a number nine, a target man, that is all. And he's an average one at that; not terrible, not essential. He doesn't have to be 'vital' there are styles of football that do not need some big oaf upfront and we have midfield personnel good enough to implement them.

So if this is the case, and we can play with the ball on the ground and be a passing side, WHERE ARE THE RESULTS?

[The Doctor]

So if this is the case, and we can play with the ball on the ground and be a passing side, WHERE ARE THE RESULTS?

you do realise after several years of hoof ball it's going to take time to adjust to this system, besides but for two wrongly disallowed king goals we'd be on 4 points rather than 1 and be sat in lower mid table.

[kimsalabim]

you do realise after several years of hoof ball it's going to take time to adjust to this system, besides but for two wrongly disallowed king goals we'd be on 4 points rather than 1 and be sat in lower mid table.

So all of a sudden, after winning league one at a canter and then finishing 5th, Lower mid-table is good is it? I mentioned this earlier in this thread, fair enough we should have beat boro, but being 2-1 down when king "scored" against Reading, did we really deserve anything there? we cannot expect to win the way we are defending at the moment.

If i say any more i will just be repeating myself.