Interesting thread on Bentley's

[Guest Bilo]

Feel free to move this mods if on the wrong forum, but was having a quick butchers at Bentleys tonight and stumbled across this thread.

Tell the mandaric, the thais, the happy clappers, teachers finance, the mercury, the lot of them to fook it. Off to saffron lane.

Unreserved seats. Terracing. not for profit tea bars serving soup and bovril and fat sodden onions on burgers. a decent kit. players drinking in the clubhouse after the match. Not for profit programme. A proper badge. pay on the gate, in cash. A half time raffle. Or half time Brass Band. Might even get to the FA Trophy final. An unpaid local businessman Chairman who gets pissed on sherry each match. local derbies on boxing day...

Personally I think it all sounds great in theory, but would it work with a fanbase like ours in practice? How much would we as fans be prepared to take before this would happen? Fan-owned clubs are becoming more and more common, especially in the non-league system. AFC Wimbledon and FC United are the more well-known examples of course, but clubs like AFC Liverpool were formed with similar motives, to give fans who were priced out of or disillusioned by their traditional clubs games to watch on a Saturday. As AFC Liverpool have proved too, it doesn't necessarily mean that the fans have abandoned their club either, as they have a positive relationship with LFC. Ticket prices are their primary motivation.

With ticket prices sky high and fans seemingly so far from the minds of the powers that be, would city based non-league football appeal? After all, we were averaging 28,000 in our first two seasons at the Walkers and now struggle to get 23,000. Where have those 5,000 gone? Are they no longer bothered because they're disillusioned with football as a whole, can't afford it or have found something better to do? There are many on here who I know have never felt more distanced from the way this club has been run of late, from the takeover that has seen this club become a rich kid's plaything to the forcing out of our most successful manager for a decade by said spoiled rich kid for a Hollywood name. The treatment of the Fosse Boys, the collapse of team spirit on the pitch, happy-clappy goal music and a sterile atmosphere at home games. All for £30 a ticket. It's not difficult to see why we're haemorrhaging fans.

Then look at the likes of FC United who charge £7 a ticket, albeit at Evo-Stik Premier level, and fans get to stand for 90 minutes if they feel like it, have the opportunity to own a share in the club and democratically elect board members and aren't ripped off blind by the profiteering of their club. If a manager is successful, he stays. The board care about the club. Profits are shovelled not into the pockets of the chief exec, but back into the running of the club. I personally would be prepared to sacrifice games watching professionals play against teams like Ipswich and toddle off to watch a local derby against Oadby or Friar Lane under those circumstances.

Of course I wouldn't leave LCFC completely, but can I justify paying out over £300 for a season ticket next season? Looking increasingly unlikely. But I love football and I love LCFC, have done since I was 7. I'm at a loose end when I'm not at the footie on a Saturday. As much as I'd love to watch non-league footie, I can't watch a game between two teams I have no connection with the same interest. Reserves? Most of us only watch the ressies as a scout, looking for future prospects for the first XI. If I'd have a problem justifying £30 for Doncaster at home but £5-7 to watch a non-league team playing in Leicester City colours a stones throw away from the ground with all the advantages I've already mentioned? Try and stop me.

I'd be really interested to hear peoples' thoughts on this.

[Raj]

Can defo understand the sentiments of the poster.

I dont know if its the demise of LCFC or just the contempt i hav for modern day footballers(or if football has been put into perspective for me after the death of my mum and Bro in the last 9 months!)

but i defo feel less love for footabll and LCFC.

I would still be crying into my samosas after Fridays debacle but after having a rant on sat morn i wasnt really that bothered...Is it REALLY gonna effect my life that much??

I have friends who work at LCFC and i realise it WILL effect THEM if City fail to get results and i wouldnt want that FOR THME,not necessarily for LCFC.

I dont OWE LCFC anything and im sure they feel the same about me.

Ive been a ST holder for 15+ years,bought the shares which are only worth the paper they were printed on,sacrificed time and money instead of being with family,spent many days being pissed off after a defeat...IS it really wrth it??

I dont really want LCFC to gain promotion in fear of them turning into MAn City type @rseholes with crap prima donna players earning a fortune( i know at the moment that situation seems about as far fetched as me going to the moon!!!)

Could go on about how Sky n Tv have fcuked football up but people pay for the Tv deals so they cant be blamed for everything(demand/supply shit!)

I dont want City NOT to be successful either.

I dont wanna see them playing in the 3rd tier AGAIN...Yes it was good and a laugh but we only end up back in this shit league again....and i dont want them dropping down any further...we'd be a fcuking national joke!!

Im abit confused actually!!!

Hope that helps Bilo....

[Guest Bilo]

Thanks Raj, that does make perfect sense actually.

Sorry to hear about your mum and brother though.

[J.Lisemore]

Good post,

I, like many people are torn because we all love our club but cannot/only just afford to pay the prices for a match.

+

I might be coming on a bit strong here but it bugs me to think that these new investors are only here to promote their business etc and don't really give a toss about our football club.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

I'd love it.

But City are City.

[Ozwin]

Call me stupid but who plays at Saffron Lane again?

[Guest Basildon Fox]

I have been thinking along similar lines. Leicester Fosse owned by the fans for the fans. Sounds good to me.

[LCFC-ARAB]

Get a few beers down Fosse Boy and this is all he talks about, Leicester Fosse 1884

[CosbehFox]

Call me stupid but who plays at Saffron Lane again?

No-one. It's an athletics track and in reality would probably not be good enough for ground grading purposes.

I'd love the idea but even if Adolf Hilter as a chairman, I'd still have a glimmer of hope for Leicester City. If it's a Phoenix club, I'd be super involved and boy would there be some barriers but what a challenge for yourself and those involved. You'd struggle for a good enough ground in the city of Leicester, you'd initially struggle for money and the first two or three years would be at a very low level. After that you'd reach some modern-day football rejected utopia.

[foxoffderby]

I have similar views on the way football is going. I rarely watch premier league football these days.

During the 80's in Italy it was similar to the Premiership now. It was the place to be if you were a footballer. It was dominated by 4/5 clubs who controlled and won everything, the rest of the teams were just there to make up the numbers. They had owners who had multimillionaire owners who were often backed by industry. Curruption and club debt was rife, there would be a world transfer record 2/3 times a seaon with average players joining clubs for mind boggeling fees. I remember a player called Lentini joing AC mialn in the early 90's for a then record tranfer fee he was shit but it became the norm for avearge players becoming overnight superstars and then thrown on the scrapheap 6 months later.

The advent of the Premier League has had a similar thing happen over here. I think Brian Clough predicted the death of football because of the Premier League. The gap between the haves ahd have nots is huge. Fans are disillusioned with their hard earned money going into the pockets of prima donner footballers spending it on high class hookers and £200 for a packet of fags. When your earning £140k a week basic it no longer has any meaning.

The likes of Liverpool and Man Utd for me might as well play amgonst themselves every week, I can forsee a European Super League forming in the near future breaking away from the current Premier League were Real Madrid plays Man Utd 4 times a season because thats all the money men want us to watch so they can advertise the football boots and other sponsorship deals.

Unless your are a Stoke or Wigan fan who really wants to watch that game on pay t.v? No glamour. Its all about the biggest teams with best players. I think its only a matter of time we see the majority of our League clubs becoming part time or feeder clubs, we will never ever see the fairytale stories like Wimbledon rising through the leagues and winning the FA Cup.

Then we have all these kids wearing the tops of the club whoose in vogue at the moment and winning instead of wearing the top of their local team. I remember when Blackburn won the Premier League title how many kids in my estate were wearing Blackburn tops I wonder if they still support them now? The whole thing stinks I no longer love football anymore like I did when I was a kid going to Filbert Street when I paid £2.50 to stand in the Kop to watch a game. I feel sorry for the youth of today being blinded by the money in the game these days as our clubs become more and more alienated from real fans.

[Finnegan]

I can't realistically see it taking off in the current climate.

Call me ignorant but the only club of it's type to reach any sort of success (and I don't just mean in league terms) is FC United and they had the sheer weight of Manchester and the vast volume of United supporters behind them. Consider that this will always be a minority movement and how much interest would you really get?

You can't compare our situation to Wimbledon's, "Phoenix Club" is a good term - risen from the literal ruins of football in Wimbledon. Fair enough if this lot uprooted us to Bangkok but as things stand I don't think you'd ever pull enough attention away from City.

Nice idea, truthfully. Just gargantually optimistic.

[Guest Bilo]

Saffron Lane would be tough to convert to a football ground in reality as an athletics track (no football team plays there but it is used fairly regularly by Leicester Corinthians as well as for county athletics tournaments), though it has been done before with Brighton's Withdean Stadium so it isn't impossible. You do have the advantage of a sizeable permanent stand as well with reasonable facilities including floodlighting and decent changing rooms.

In terms of finding a ground in the city, it would indeed be difficult as there is something of a dearth. Friar Lane and Epworth's ground at Knighton Lane East (just off the Saff) is the one that springs to mind first. Besides that, you're going into the suburbs and looking at grounds in Oadby and Kirby Muxloe.

There's no doubt such a club would start low down in the football pyramid, FCUM for example started in the North West Counties League Division 2, Step 6 of the NLS and 9 divisions below the Premier League. Even after a massively successful first five years, they're still three promotions away from the Football League. They'd probably argue that that isn't really the point of the club though, the opportunity to watch a club that they truly feel a connection with is one they can't turn down. Most still consider themselves Manchester United supporters as well, banners with both club crests on aren't uncommon, it's just that their problem is with what modern football has become with the Glazers being just a part of it. Many of them turn up to Man United's away games, just not to home games so as not to make Glazer richer.

[Guest Bilo]

I can't realistically see it taking off in the current climate.

Call me ignorant but the only club of it's type to reach any sort of success (and I don't just mean in league terms) is FC United and they had the sheer weight of Manchester and the vast volume of United supporters behind them. Consider that this will always be a minority movement and how much interest would you really get?

You can't compare our situation to Wimbledon's, "Phoenix Club" is a good term - risen from the literal ruins of football in Wimbledon. Fair enough if this lot uprooted us to Bangkok but as things stand I don't think you'd ever pull enough attention away from City.

Nice idea, truthfully. Just gargantually optimistic.

Good post and pretty much reflects my only misgivings. There are question marks over whether our fanbase is big enough and pissed enough with the current situation to make the break. FC United had huge momentum behind them with pretty much the entire MUFC fanbase furious at the Glazer takeover and Wimbledon fans lost their club altogether. Our situation is very different to both and that I do agree with.

Though one thing I would say is that the current climate isn't a handicap so much as a benefit. The recession still isn't over, job losses are still a threat and money is tight which has cut back on the numbers of match-to-match attendees. I know that you for one have said that you can only make odd matches for monetary reasons, and this will realistically be my situation next season.

We aren't the only ones it seems with 21,000 for the first home game of the season being the lowest I can remember in years, especially considering it was over 26,000 last season. Then we have the forcing out of our most successful and popular manager since MON, the team being carted off to Thailand mid-season in the vain hope of selling shirts in Phuket and the shameful treatment of fans that has been well-publicised. On and off the pitch, we're an absolute mess. People are kicking it into touch, which you could argue is the first step.

We may not have the numbers or rebelliousness of FCUM fans but I could see us getting 1,000 like-minded people together for home games, which would put a fan-owned FC Leicester Fosse or whatever you want to call it up there with most BSP teams. Even half that would put FCLF up there with sides several divisions above Senior League. You're also underestimating the amount of publicity that such a club would create, a big factor in FCUM's initial successes as many who had seen them on the local news turned up to Gigg Lane to see what all the fuss was about.

[dandannieldanok]

The whole county is littered with clubs like that, so why bother start a new one?

[Guest Bilo]

The whole county is littered with clubs like that, so why bother start a new one?

Because each one has its own reason for starting, its own fanbase and its own character. The reasons behind the formation of Chester and Scarborough Athletic were that the original clubs went bust, whereas FCUM formed for the reasons I've already discussed and AFC Liverpool's motives are different again.

Also there are only 14 fan-owned clubs in England, the closest being Telford, so I'd hardly say littered. How is that the point anyway? It's like saying that the country's littered with football clubs better than LCFC so you should go and support them. It's not that simple.

[AndyBrew]

sounds good to me I love the idea

[dandannieldanok]

Because each one has its own reason for starting, its own fanbase and its own character. The reasons behind the formation of Chester and Scarborough Athletic were that the original clubs went bust, whereas FCUM formed for the reasons I've already discussed and AFC Liverpool's motives are different again.

Also there are only 14 fan-owned clubs in England, the closest being Telford, so I'd hardly say littered. How is that the point anyway? It's like saying that the country's littered with football clubs better than LCFC so you should go and support them. It's not that simple.

Yea but you're only hope would be to integrate yourselves with an existing club. Not in a million years would you be able to start one up from scratch, as Finners said, the numbers and interest isn't there. You would have to have a rich person on board or else where does the money come from? It's a total non-starter unless LCFC went bust and ceased to exist, which is not going to happen anytime soon.

[Finnegan]

which is not going to happen anytime soon.

I really hope you touched wood...

[Shram]

You've got more chance of building a time machine and going back to 1884 then this ever realistically being pulled off..

[Guest Bilo]

Yea but you're only hope would be to integrate yourselves with an existing club. Not in a million years would you be able to start one up from scratch, as Finners said, the numbers and interest isn't there. You would have to have a rich person on board or else where does the money come from? It's a total non-starter unless LCFC went bust and ceased to exist, which is not going to happen anytime soon.

The money would come from the supporters, a rich person on board would completely defeat the object.

The way that other such clubs have done it is to sell memberships that entitle the member to voting rights within the club, the opportunity to elect board members for instance, most of which are voluntary. AFC Liverpool have a membership that gives you these rights, free entry to all home games and a match programme at every game for £20 a month. Sounds a lot but when you consider the season runs for about 9 months, you've effectively got a season ticket and a real say in how the club is run for £180 a season and that's their most expensive package, many only pay around £20 a season for the basic membership and pay a fiver a match as and when. These are the funds that are channelled back into the club, along with sales of merchandise where all the profits go back to the team. I doubt very much I'd be the only person to find that attractive, irrespective of the level the team is playing at. For me, football is about having a good time with good people, the level doesn't come into it. The League One season is the lowest level at which we have ever played, yet most cite that as one of their best ever seasons because of the fun we had.

Integrating with an existing football club isn't an option either, I'm a fan of LCFC and its history and its people. Going to watch another non-league football club wouldn't really be the same as I have no attachment to any non-league club. Don't get me wrong I admire what the likes of FCUM have done, but I'd only ever watch them as a one-off, not really as a supporter in the truest sense.

[dandannieldanok]

The money would come from the supporters, a rich person on board would completely defeat the object.

The way that other such clubs have done it is to sell memberships that entitle the member to voting rights within the club, the opportunity to elect board members for instance, most of which are voluntary. AFC Liverpool have a membership that gives you these rights, free entry to all home games and a match programme at every game for £20 a month. Sounds a lot but when you consider the season runs for about 9 months, you've effectively got a season ticket and a real say in how the club is run for £180 a season and that's their most expensive package, many only pay around £20 a season for the basic membership and pay a fiver a match as and when. These are the funds that are channelled back into the club, along with sales of merchandise where all the profits go back to the team. I doubt very much I'd be the only person to find that attractive, irrespective of the level the team is playing at. For me, football is about having a good time with good people, the level doesn't come into it. The League One season is the lowest level at which we have ever played, yet most cite that as one of their best ever seasons because of the fun we had.

Integrating with an existing football club isn't an option either, I'm a fan of LCFC and its history and its people. Going to watch another non-league football club wouldn't really be the same as I have no attachment to any non-league club. Don't get me wrong I admire what the likes of FCUM have done, but I'd only ever watch them as a one-off, not really as a supporter in the truest sense.

But you wouldn't have enough supporters and in turn not enough money to get it off the ground. All that is very interesting and fine if you have the numbers, but you're not going have enough people willing to pay £180 a season for effectively park football.

[Guest Bilo]

But you wouldn't have enough supporters and in turn not enough money to get it off the ground. All that is very interesting and fine if you have the numbers, but you're not going have enough people willing to pay £180 a season for effectively park football.

Agree that not many would be prepared to pay that, but some would and do at similar clubs.

Bare in mind that £180 is the absolute maximum anyone would pay per season, you wouldn't get a half season ticket in the Just The Ticket section as a full price paying adult at the Walkers for that. The overwhelming majority pay for basic membership at £10-£20 a season and a fiver a game as and when they feel like it, which is a very fair price to pay for that level of football. It works a wee bit like political party membership, where you pay a nominal amount to become a member but can opt to pay more if you feel you can afford to do so.

http://afcliverpool.org.uk/go/join-afc-liverpool

[dandannieldanok]

Agree that not many would be prepared to pay that, but some would and do at similar clubs.

Bare in mind that £180 is the absolute maximum anyone would pay per season, you wouldn't get a half season ticket in the Just The Ticket section as a full price paying adult at the Walkers for that. The overwhelming majority pay for basic membership at £10-£20 a season and a fiver a game as and when they feel like it, which is a very fair price to pay for that level of football. It works a wee bit like political party membership, where you pay a nominal amount to become a member but can opt to pay more if you feel you can afford to do so.

http://afcliverpool.org.uk/go/join-afc-liverpool

Once again, nothing wrong with it, but it's just not viable here. Leicester have a fraction of the support of Liverpool and Man Utd to 'borrow' from, and then you've got the question; is anyone actually really that disillusioned to just stop supporting LCFC altogether anyway?....because that is the commitment you would need. Because of the low numbers you'd get, you'd need everyone who expressed an interest to pay the top whack of £180 for the club to even have a fighting chance of getting off the ground, and as you've acknowledged, people aren't going to pay that.

[Trav Le Bleu]

In all honesty there are enough decent lower league teams in Leicestershire, if you feel like a break from the corporate malaise of big league football, why not visit one of them. I've been to Oadby Town a few times and you get a decent match and all that Bilo mentioned (thought the ground's no patch on Saffron Lane) or how about Hinckley Utd, they need the money (I know someone at my workplace who would be pleased to see a couple hundred Leicester fans decend on the Greene King Stadium... might mean he gets paid )

[Guest Bilo]

Once again, nothing wrong with it, but it's just not viable here. Leicester have a fraction of the support of Liverpool and Man Utd to 'borrow' from, and then you've got the question; is anyone actually really that disillusioned to just stop supporting LCFC altogether anyway?....because that is the commitment you would need. Because of the low numbers you'd get, you'd need everyone who expressed an interest to pay the top whack of £180 for the club to even have a fighting chance of getting off the ground, and as you've acknowledged, people aren't going to pay that.

As I stated in an earlier post though, attendances are down. People are walking away.

26,000 for the first game of last season, 21,000 for Middlesbrough. We haven't hit 23,000 yet. Where have the fans gone? This is with the seat exchange scheme which will always add a few extra bodies. The 20,000 or so that turn up now won't be coming to any games a new club would play but the 2-3,000 who came regularly last season but aren't this may fancy it on occasion. Not all together of course but if a third of the 3,000 who no longer feel able or willing to go to LCFC may fancy a game at a modest level for a fiver on occasion, especially if that club are heavily based on the club they support.