Richie Wellens

[Simmo86]

You can seriously only remember him being involved in one goal last season? I suggest you get a time machine, or at least watch the season review.

Of course you have to continue performing to warrant a place in the team, I've never argued with this, but Wellens is performing.

He's peforming as as a combative, simple central midfielder player, but not as this midfield scholes esqe maestro you make him out to be!

[Kitchandro]

He's peforming as as a combative, simple central midfielder player, but not as this midfield scholes esqe maestro you make him out to be!

So he doesn't contribute in an attacking sense, is that what you're saying?

Oh, and can I point out that Abe is strictly a defensie midfielder! How is he Scholes-esque?

[Houdini Logic]

No, not 'whatever I think', what I think contradicts what you think, therefore your point is not definite, in fact it's wrong.

I live my life in that mindset which is why my wife left me and my family hates me

[hackneyfox]

Neither of them are Scholesgue.

And that is what we are badly missing and why Davies shone when we had him.

[Kitchandro]

I live my life in that mindset which is why my wife left me and my family hates me

Fortunately I'm not married to anyone on here

[Kitchandro]

Neither of them are Scholesgue.

And that is what we are badly missing and why Davies shone when we had him.

Perhaps.

If we bring somebody in like that, and he shows enough in his early performances to suggest he should have his place in the team, fair enough. If he scored goals there is an argument he might challenge King for his place too. But it's certainly not Abe at the moment.

[okie fox]

I'd be interested to see how many assists Wellens has to his name because the one thing he's capable of is being an incisive passer, I just question whether he's achieved that yet at Leicester because his game isn't strictly a defensive midfield role so if you don't score goals then you should be setting them up regularly. I remember a stunning pass at home against Watford last season, are there many others? The simple answer, whether people think he has ability or not is that he has to perform otherwise he'll be done for, like any of the others. Richie knows that too, time he put up or shut up.

Wellens has 4 assists in the league this season!

http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/DivisionalAssists/0,,10794~20107,00.html

[Simmo86]

So he doesn't contribute in an attacking sense, is that what you're saying?

Oh, and can I point out that Abe is strictly a defensie midfielder! How is he Scholes-esque?

I never called abe scholes esque.

I'm just saying wellens isn't good enough to play that role for us. Not saying abe is either!

Fair do's every now and again he'll play at decent through ball or set up a goal, but not often enough for the player you make him out to be!

There's a reason he's played in the lower leagues his whole career.

[MPH]

Kisnorbo split opinions as to how good he was. Fryatt has split opinions. so it seems has Wellens now.

The signnings of Naughton and Curtis Davies should redefine to EVERYONE what exactly 'good' means

Truth is we have been stuck in the champ and lower for long enough now to really know what a good/ great player is....

Sven has done it with the defence, expect him to do it for the Mid and ATT sometime this side of the end of January.

[ian_marshall]

You must be living in a dreamworld, I could not disagree with you more.

If you can't see Wellens has footballing vision and a footballing brain you've not been watching Leicester. It's your vision that is lacking, not his. That is why he can play the more difficult ball, when none of our other players see it. I did not suggest he is good enough for the Champions League, are you suggesting Abe is?! That's not the point is it.

This 'fancy Dan' stuff you keep going on about is fictional. In fact saying he doesn't create goalscoring opportunities because of it isn't true, as he creates plenty.

You say Abe's touch creates time - or is it that he's played against Preston who haven't closed him down quick enough? If you are suggesting Wellens doesn't have a first touch...

It's funny how many people don't think Wellens is up to our standard, yet he has had very few bad performances for us and was a key player in our play-off season. Pearson obviously thought a lot of him - that's why he kept picking him.

And stop going on about top flight football, we are in the bottom half of the Championship. Get real.

Abe may well be a good player, but he has not proved he should be in instead of Wellens yet, not even close.

Okay firstly, are we talking about the same player here? To hear you speak anyone would have thought we were talking about Zidane at his peak. Unfortunately Wellens wouldn't even be fit to lace his boots. I'm not for one second suggesting that Abe is anywhere near good enough to play in the Champions Leage but the fact that he even featured in the World Cup this year sets him apart from Wellens, or, why don't you enlighten us all and tell us about Wellens World Cup campaign?

As for the assists, he played a third more games than Fryatt, Gallagher and Waghorn yet still didn't create more assists: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Leicester_City_F.C._season) averaging 1 assist every 9 games. Hardly a creative genius is he?

As for Abe's ability to create space, his first few touches in a city shirt against Cardiff who are top of the league and you could argue close down teams pretty quickly, boasting one of the meanest defences in the league, were sublime, so clearly the Preston game wasn't an isolated example of his ability on the ball.

As for Wellens, admittedly he played a lot of games under Pearson and was instrumental in ascertaining a playoff spot. However, remember that that's all it was, a Playoff Spot! When it came to the crunch, he along with the rest of the team simply weren't good enough otherwise we'd now be playing top flight football. What makes you think a player who wasn't good enough last season will be any better this season? Sven clearly feels this too, as he's gradually replacing each of them one by one. This isn't a criticism of last years team/players, they did very well last season with the resources available to them, but things move on and if better players come along with greater ability then the existing players either need to up their game or face the prospect of losing their place in the side. As Darwin once proclaimed it's a case of "survival of the fittest".

Finally, you suggest that I stop going on about top flight football but that's the level where surely we all aspire to be, or am I on my own here?. Ok, we're not in the best position right now, but our recent form so far under Sven is comparable to promotion form, and looking at the quality of players that Sven has acquired would suggest that it won't be long before we are competing in the upper echelons of the league.

[Kitchandro]

I never called abe scholes esque.

I'm just saying wellens isn't good enough to play that role for us. Not saying abe is either!

Fair do's every now and again he'll play at decent through ball or set up a goal, but not often enough for the player you make him out to be!

There's a reason he's played in the lower leagues his whole career.

Define every now and again. I'd suggest he contributes to goals more than most.

My main gripe TBH is that some people think Abe is better than Wellens, I'm not making Wellens out to be world class

[Kitchandro]

Kisnorbo split opinions as to how good he was. Fryatt has split opinions. so it seems has Wellens now.

The signnings of Naughton and Curtis Davies should redefine to EVERYONE what exactly 'good' means

Truth is we have been stuck in the champ and lower for long enough now to really know what a good/ great player is....

Sven has done it with the defence, expect him to do it for the Mid and ATT sometime this side of the end of January.

I rate Naughton and Davies but watching two good players doesn't redefine what 'good' is. I've watched enough football in my life to know what a good player is thank you very much

[Finnegan]

My main gripe TBH is that some people think Abe is better than Wellens, I'm not making Wellens out to be world class

I think it's more accurate to say that some of us hope Abe is better than Richie Wellens and want to see him played into form in his natural position to see if that's the case.

If we're wrong, fair enough, but we won't know until we see for ourselves.

At the end of the day, unless you actually ARE Richie Wellens (or his mum) why would you not want to see us improve on the side we have?

[Kitchandro]

Okay firstly, are we talking about the same player here? To hear you speak anyone would have thought we were talking about Zidane at his peak. Unfortunately Wellens wouldn't even be fit to lace his boots. I'm not for one second suggesting that Abe is anywhere near good enough to play in the Champions Leage but the fact that he even featured in the World Cup this year sets him apart from Wellens, or, why don't you enlighten us all and tell us about Wellens World Cup campaign?

As for the assists, he played a third more games than Fryatt, Gallagher and Waghorn yet still didn't create more assists: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Leicester_City_F.C._season) averaging 1 assist every 9 games. Hardly a creative genius is he?

As for Abe's ability to create space, his first few touches in a city shirt against Cardiff who are top of the league and you could argue close down teams pretty quickly, boasting one of the meanest defences in the league, were sublime, so clearly the Preston game wasn't an isolated example of his ability on the ball.

As for Wellens, admittedly he played a lot of games under Pearson and was instrumental in ascertaining a playoff spot. However, remember that that's all it was, a Playoff Spot! When it came to the crunch, he along with the rest of the team simply weren't good enough otherwise we'd now be playing top flight football. What makes you think a player who wasn't good enough last season will be any better this season? Sven clearly feels this too, as he's gradually replacing each of them one by one. This isn't a criticism of last years team/players, they did very well last season with the resources available to them, but things move on and if better players come along with greater ability then the existing players either need to up their game or face the prospect of losing their place in the side. As Darwin once proclaimed it's a case of "survival of the fittest".

Finally, you suggest that I stop going on about top flight football but that's the level where surely we all aspire to be, or am I on my own here?. Ok, we're not in the best position right now, but our recent form so far under Sven is comparable to promotion form, and looking at the quality of players that Sven has acquired would suggest that it won't be long before we are competing in the upper echelons of the league.

Come on then smart arse, copy and paste a direct quote that I have written that can only be sensibly atrributed to Zidane. Or did you just write that for effect? Thought so, pointless sentence.

Newsflash: Abe played for Japan, not Brazil, not Spain, not even England. And I'm sure we could all name some pretty shit players who have played at the World Cup. Abe made little impact in his four games, he certainly didn't stand out. So don't mention the World Cup again unless you want to look like a child.

As I mentioned in an earlier post - creating goals aren't just about assists. Let me just enlighten you - an assist is in fact the last past before the goalscorer touches the ball. The assist statistics do not begin to tell the full story of how a player contribute to the game. Just because Wellens didn't play the final pass does not mean he didn't play a big part in the goal. Often, Wellens plays the first pass, the one that finds the player in space, not necessarily the one on the penalty spot, sometimes the one who only has to play a simple ball to get an assist himself. Your argument here is based too much on stats. Stats are not everything.

Didn't Abe come on as a sub against Cardiff? So he looked fresh against a tired team who had barely posed a threat to us all game? That's that then.

And your assessment of the play-offs is wrong. We were more than a match for Cardiff in the second leg, we were simply robbed by a poor decision for the penalty, and 2 Cardiff players should have been sent off in extra time. Then we narrowly lost on penalties because of you know who. Admittedly we weren't at our best in the first leg - yet we still should have had 2 penalties. We would have gone through had the officials done their job, no doubt about it.

And to your remark that is was only the play-offs - I think you'd settle for that this season wouldn't you? And you would have settled for it last season I'm sure. Besides, do you not claim Wellens isn't good enough for a promotion push? Regardless of whether we won the play-offs or not, being in them is evidence of a promotion push. I'm not saying he could definitely hack it in the Prem, but in this league he's proven that he can. Abe has proven he can do it in Japan so far....

You admit our form has been good recently - well Wellens played at Leeds and at home to Preston and S****horpe and was one of the best players on the pitch. Abe did not play at Leeds or at home to S****horpe.

So again, I charge you with the task of finding me evidence that Abe is better than Wellens, and that he should have his place in the starting 11.

[orangecity23]

I like Richie Wellens, but I also like Yuki Abe. And I like Andy King too. But which is better?

[Finnegan]

Newsflash: Abe played for Japan, not Brazil, not Spain, not even England. And I'm sure we could all name some pretty shit players who have played at the World Cup. Abe made little impact in his four games, he certainly didn't stand out. So don't mention the World Cup again unless you want to look like a child.

Would this be the Japan that drew mass plaudits and certainly shone as far brighter stars than England during the World Cup? And the same Yuki Abe who's gathered reasonable acclaim for his contributions to their tireless defending and his freeing up Yasuhito Endo et all to venture forward?

[Kitchandro]

I think it's more accurate to say that some of us hope Abe is better than Richie Wellens and want to see him played into form in his natural position to see if that's the case.

If we're wrong, fair enough, but we won't know until we see for ourselves.

At the end of the day, unless you actually ARE Richie Wellens (or his mum) why would you not want to see us improve on the side we have?

So it's been admitted, there's favouritism towards Abe. Everyone wants him to be better than Wellens, hence why they are claiming he is and ignoring actual performances. This is my problem, if Abe wasn't a foreigner who played at the world cup we wouldn't be having this conversation. In fact, I bet if we bought a better version of King people would want to be loyal to a him since he's a fans favourite and say 'well this guy might be good but he's got to wait for his chance, King is on form and and doesn't deserve to be dropped - what kind of message does that send out to him?' And you may have a point. But with the ever unpopular Wellens, you don't give a shit.

Abe should be given a chance in the cup games. If he runs rings round the opposition (which he hasn't) then he warrants Wellens' place. If Wellens has a poor run of form, Abe should be given a chance. But that's not yet.

But it is both unfair and stupid to drop Wellens if he is playing well and having a positive effect on games, as he usually does, and as he is doing at the moment.

Just because foreign players are an exciting novelty to some people does not mean they automatically deserve to play at the expense of one of our better players.

You want him to be better, but I don't think he is, and he certainly hasn't proved it so yet.

[Finnegan]

So it's been admitted, there's favouritism towards Abe.

With the greatest respect, in your eagerness to be defensive I think you just completely missed my point.

I don't want Abe to be better than Wellens because I prefer Abe to Wellens, I want Abe to be better than Wellens because Abe is the unknown quantity and Wellens is the established player.

Put another way: We have signed a new central midfielder and I hope he is better than our existing player so that the first eleven is improved by his presence.

Lloyd Dyer is probably my favourite City player at the moment - but if we signed a new left winger I'd be eagerly hoping he'd be an improvement. That's just how football works, building a squad is about progression. If anyone here is blinded by their bias and favouritism, matey, it's you - not us.

I've been the same before, believe me. Ask any of the old school posters on here about Sosban Fach and Robbie Earnshaw. But sometimes you've just got to be cold and realistic in football. If we can better Richie Wellens then God bless us, he's hardly Pirlo.

You want him to be better, but I don't think he is, and he certainly hasn't proved it so yet.

I'd say Abe's been better in his last couple of games than I've seen Wellens so far this season - and I'm not the only one that thinks so by a long stretch.

[Kitchandro]

Would this be the Japan that drew mass plaudits and certainly shone as far brighter stars than England during the World Cup? And the same Yuki Abe who's gathered reasonable acclaim for his contributions to their tireless defending and his freeing up Yasuhito Endo et all to venture forward?

No, I think you're thinking of another Japan.

Apart from being better than England, that I agree with - however we know that Englsih players are better than Japan's, they just had a shit attitude.

Seriously, mass plaudits is taking the piss. They were very average in that terrible game against Cameroon, and similar against Paraguay. They were beaten by Holland, which leaves one good performance against Denmark.

As for Abe in particular, it was hardly a standout performance. In fact quite the opposite. Nothing terrible that I can remember, but nothing particularly special

[Finnegan]

No, I think you're thinking of another Japan.

I think you were watching a different world cup to the rest of us.

Nobody's claiming they were Germany or Argentina but they certainly looked like they belonged on the world stage and frankly that's good enough for me.

[Kitchandro]

With the greatest respect, in your eagerness to be defensive I think you just completely missed my point.

I don't want Abe to be better than Wellens because I prefer Abe to Wellens, I want Abe to be better than Wellens because Abe is the unknown quantity and Wellens is the established player.

Put another way: We have signed a new central midfielder and I hope he is better than our existing player so that the first eleven is improved by his presence.

Lloyd Dyer is probably my favourite City player at the moment - but if we signed a new left winger I'd be eagerly hoping he'd be an improvement. That's just how football works, building a squad is about progression. If anyone here is blinded by their bias and favouritism, matey, it's you - not us.

I've been the same before, believe me. Ask any of the old school posters on here about Sosban Fach and Robbie Earnshaw. But sometimes you've just got to be cold and realistic in football. If we can better Richie Wellens then God bless us, he's hardly Pirlo.

I'd say Abe's been better in his last couple of games than I've seen Wellens so far this season - and I'm not the only one that thinks so by a long stretch.

I'm tempted to stop going to games by that. I agree, you are not the only one that thinks so, which is why it winds me up so much. Like I say, you believe that because you want to believe it. You've made your decision after 2 games - that's what makes it obvious that it's favouritism.

Of course I want the squad to improve - but I aint gonna admit a player is an improvement when he's not. Unknown quantities need to earn their place, now none of us can see what's going on in training, but we can judge them on performances. Abe has played ONE full league game and whilst he's looked relatiely promising, he hasn't looked a class above. Wellens has earnt his place in the team because he's played well. If you are looking for a midfielder to replace on current form - it's King, not Wellens. King has been quiet lately.

Oh, and Abe is hardly Pirlo either.

[ian_marshall]

So it's been admitted, there's favouritism towards Abe. Everyone wants him to be better than Wellens, hence why they are claiming he is and ignoring actual performances. This is my problem, if Abe wasn't a foreigner who played at the world cup we wouldn't be having this conversation. In fact, I bet if we bought a better version of King people would want to be loyal to a him since he's a fans favourite and say 'well this guy might be good but he's got to wait for his chance, King is on form and and doesn't deserve to be dropped - what kind of message does that send out to him?' And you may have a point. But with the ever unpopular Wellens, you don't give a shit.

Abe should be given a chance in the cup games. If he runs rings round the opposition (which he hasn't) then he warrants Wellens' place. If Wellens has a poor run of form, Abe should be given a chance. But that's not yet.

But it is both unfair and stupid to drop Wellens if he is playing well and having a positive effect on games, as he usually does, and as he is doing at the moment.

Just because foreign players are an exciting novelty to some people does not mean they automatically deserve to play at the expense of one of our better players.

You want him to be better, but I don't think he is, and he certainly hasn't proved it so yet.

Right lets address the above points. Firstly, you're saying that we shouldn't back one of our most consistent players simply because it sends the wrong messages to him! No wonder we're in the mess we are in when good players who are on form are not rewarded with praise. Ask yourself ; If both King and Wellens were to be listed for sale come January 1st 2011, which would be snapped up fastest and which would most likely be destined for the Premier League?

Secondly, based upon your second point. Just to clarify, if we were to sign Wayne Rooney or Darren Bent then you would suggest that they bide their time on the bench playing the ocassional cup game against either inferior/superior opposition to prove their worth or until Fryatt or Waghorn struggle for form? These players earn their reputations by demonstrating their ability at the highest level. Just because Abe isn't a household name in this country shouldn't mean that he has to prove his worth, as he featured in the World Cup finals. As a former international manager Sven clearly sees something in Abe during training to warrant giving him a first team place otherwise he simply wouldn't be playing.

[Kitchandro]

I think you were watching a different world cup to the rest of us.

Nobody's claiming they were Germany or Argentina but they certainly looked like they belonged on the world stage and frankly that's good enough for me.

They were a decent hardworking team with a couple of dead ball specialists and one flair player - Honda. Abe did not stand out as an individual.

Hardly worthy of 'mass plaudits' - they won 2 out of 4 and reached the second round for ****s sake.

And in any case, even if Abe had done a Maradona in 86, that's irrelevant to what he does here

[okie fox]

I'd say Abe's been better in his last couple of games than I've seen Wellens so far this season - and I'm not the only one that thinks so by a long stretch.

I thought Wellens had the better game against Preston, although Abe played quite well. Abe has to prove that he is the better player before he is given Wellens' spot in the team. This isn't the time to experiment.

[Kitchandro]

Right lets address the above points. Firstly, you're saying that we shouldn't back one of our most consistent players simply because it sends the wrong messages to him! No wonder we're in the mess we are in when good players who are on form are not rewarded with praise. Ask yourself this question. If both King and Wellens were to be listed for sale come January 1st 2011, which would be snapped up fastest and which would most likely be destined for the Premier League?

Secondly, based upon your second point. Just to clarify, if we were to sign Wayne Rooney or Darren Bent then you would suggest that they bide their time on the bench playing the ocassional cup game against either inferior/superior opposition to prove their worth or until Fryatt or Waghorn struggle for form? These players earn their reputations by demonstrating their ability at the highest level. Just because the Abe isn't a household name in this country shouldn't mean that he has to prove his worth, as he featured in the World Cup finals. As a former international manager Sven clearly sees something in Abe during training to warrant giving him a first team place otherwise he simply wouldn't be playing.

No, you've got that round your neck, I'm saying we should back him in such a case. I'm saying that whilst the fans would suggest that we should back King if he was in form (rightly), the same people would not back Wellens in the same situation (wrongly), as is the case at the momnent.

Again, round your neck. If Fryatt and Waghorn were struggling for form (and they are TBF) then THAT is exactly when Rooney and Bent should be given a chance. However, if Fryatt and Waghorn were in form (as Wellens is) why should they be dropped? And Rooney and Bent (established Premier League strikers) are hardly Abe (unknown quanity in this country and level), so that comparison is pointless.

'Just because the Abe isn't a household name in this country shouldn't mean that he has to prove his worth, as he featured in the World Cup finals'

This is utter shit. Every player should have to prove his worth at our club, no matter who he is. Again, the words, novelty and favouritism comes to mind. This is where your argument falls flat.

Look, Abe had a decent game on Saturday, and created the goal. Because of that, by all means, I agree he should keep his place, on the right. But he shouldn't be taking Wellens' position.