Trav Le Bleu Posted 12 May 2011 Posted 12 May 2011 Before starting any replies in this thread everyone should ask themselves this question. "Do you think that your elected leaders are less or more moral than you"? If you believe that that they have the same moral or greater moral standards than you then you will disbelieve "conspiracy theories". If you believe they are less moral then I suggest you are likely to believe in "conspiracy theories". Politicians set the moral tone and live or die by it. I'd prefer if elected leaders were insane megalomaniac pussy strokers. At least we'd KNOW where we stand!
Webbo Posted 12 May 2011 Posted 12 May 2011 Personally I believe that for 9/11 to have been an inside job didn't need thousands to have activly participated. For a start there are the hundreds of people who were on the planes themselves. According to the conspiracy theory the planes that hit the twin towers (no body is disputing that planes did actually hit the twin towers) were empty planes flew by remote control. If these people weren't on the plane where are they and why are their relatives grieving? Then there is the plane that supposedly hit the pentagon. Not only would all the thousands of people working there have to lie about it because according to the conspiracy theory it never hit but also many witnesses who saw a plane sticking out the building would have to lie too. On top of that you'd have to get all the rescue workers who pulled bodies out of the plane to lie too. That's thousands by anyone's maths.
Dr The Singh Posted 12 May 2011 Posted 12 May 2011 I'd prefer if elected leaders were insane megalomaniac pussy strokers. At least we'd KNOW where we stand! Most are definitely those!!!
zubi Posted 12 May 2011 Posted 12 May 2011 For a start there are the hundreds of people who were on the planes themselves. According to the conspiracy theory the planes that hit the twin towers (no body is disputing that planes did actually hit the twin towers) were empty planes flew by remote control. If these people weren't on the plane where are they and why are their relatives grieving? Then there is the plane that supposedly hit the pentagon. Not only would all the thousands of people working there have to lie about it because according to the conspiracy theory it never hit but also many witnesses who saw a plane sticking out the building would have to lie too. On top of that you'd have to get all the rescue workers who pulled bodies out of the plane to lie too. That's thousands by anyone's maths. I've heard very few accounts about the supposed plane that went in to the pentagon, in fact if I can't remember anyone working inside the pentagon being questioned about it. Also if you watch this video the news reporter claims it wasn't a plane. Watch these 3 short videos and let me know what you think, Makes for some interesting viewing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO3hCzGcd7g&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flo8cmARmsE&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WgYP3NTr7s&feature=related
MikeyT Posted 13 May 2011 Posted 13 May 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13385597 Pakistan paramilitary Shabqadar base bombings 'kill 80' Twin bomb attacks on a paramilitary force academy in north-west Pakistan have killed 80 people, police say. A number of people were hurt in the blasts at the training centre for the Frontier Constabulary in Shabqadar, Charsadda district. After early suspicions that one of the bombs was planted, police now say both blasts were caused by suicide attacks. The Pakistani Taliban said they carried out the attack to avenge the death of Osama Bin Laden earlier this month. The al-Qaeda leader was killed during a US commando raid in the northern Pakistani town of Abbottabad on 2 May. 'Deadliest attack' The bombings happened as newly trained cadets from the Frontier Constabulary were getting into buses for a short leave after completing their course. The Frontier Constabulary is a frontline force often deployed against militants - including the Taliban - in the tribal areas. The attack on this paramilitary police academy comes days after the killing of Osama Bin Laden, and in the wake of Taliban threats to avenge him. But regular and tribal police forces have been a target of Taliban militants based in the nearby Mohmand tribal region since 2007. Together with its northern neighbour, Bajaur, Mohmand has been home to local militants claiming allegiance to an anti-Pakistan Taliban group called TTP. At the same time, the area is home to militant groups close to al-Qaeda's thinking, such as the one led by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. After 9/11, Bajaur served as the first sanctuary for foreign fighters linked to al-Qaeda. In May 2009, security forces in Mohmand captured five Arab fighters and had to fight a three-hour long gun battle with local Taliban to prevent them from freeing the Arabs. But al-Qaeda does not have any military capability in the area and is dependent on support from local militants. Analysts expect these militants to use Bin Laden's killing as an excuse to launch similar attacks in coming days "I was sitting in a van waiting for my colleagues. We were in plain clothes and we were happy we were going to see our families," Ahmad Ali, a wounded paramilitary policeman, told AFP news agency. "I heard someone shouting 'Allahu Akbar' [God is great] and then I heard a huge blast. I was hit by something in my back shoulder. "In the meantime I heard another blast and I jumped out of the van. I felt that I was injured and bleeding." At least 65 of the dead were recruits, but there were also civilian casualties, officials say. The injured were taken to a local hospital and security forces sealed off the area. A number of vehicles were destroyed in the blast. Shabqadar lies on the border with Afghanistan, about 35km (22 miles) north-west of Peshawar, not far from the militant stronghold of Mohmand. The BBC's Aleem Maqbool, in Islamabad, says the security forces have often been the target of such attacks as they fight the Pakistani Taliban across the north-west of the country, but Friday's bombing is the deadliest attack this year. He adds that the Pakistani army - which has come under intense scrutiny and criticism over the Bin Laden affair - is likely to point out that this attack is an illustration of the sacrifices it has made in the so-called "war on terror". Later on Friday, army chiefs are expected to appear in parliament to explain their actions over the death of Bin Laden. In recent years, Taliban militants have killed hundreds of people in bombings and other attacks across Pakistan.
Trav Le Bleu Posted 13 May 2011 Posted 13 May 2011 And today's headline is that the British government have condemned the suicide bombings. Wait - that's not NEWS; that's just what every right thinking person in the world believes. What next in the headlines? David Cameron believes sky is blue? Now if the news said that our government SUPPORTS the suicide bombers and that it's only a shame that they didn't kill more - THAT would be news!
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 14 May 2011 Posted 14 May 2011 I'd prefer if elected leaders were insane megalomaniac pussy strokers. At least we'd KNOW where we stand! Bonjourno?
The Doctor Posted 14 May 2011 Posted 14 May 2011 Zingari, Zubi & Empty: remember the old saying: "When you hear hoof-beats, think horses not zebras"
Zingari Posted 14 May 2011 Posted 14 May 2011 Zingari, Zubi & Empty: remember the old saying: "When you hear hoof-beats, think horses not zebras" ......and when you hear explosions think explosives not falling debris and fire
Zingari Posted 14 May 2011 Posted 14 May 2011 This is an interesting little piece of film from Dutch TV , and quite short , so if you watch it, please make sure you watch til the end before passing any comment Danny Jowenko is a dutch demolition expert who was obviously aware of the collapses of wtc 1 and 2 ,(top down demolitions as opposed to bottom down )but had never before seen wtc 7 collapse therefore his judgement is unprejudiced by any extra implications . Just watch as he describes the collapse with absolute certainty that it was a controlled demolition , but when he is told the circumstances he immediately realises the implications and starts to doubt his own judgement ( but to his credit he maintains it was still controlled demolition ) But this leads him to try to explain it away as a "rush job" , but even in doing so he hits another brick wall ( the building is still on fire and supposedly already on the verge of collapse , step forward any volunteers to go in and set the charges )and finally has to accept the reality that it just cannot be explained that way
OzFox Posted 16 May 2011 Posted 16 May 2011 "Look hard enough, and dementedly enough, and you can find "proof" that Kevin Bacon was responsible for 9/11 - or the 1987 Zeebrugge ferry disaster, come to that. It'd certainly make for a more interesting story, which is precisely why several thousand well-meaning people would go out of their way to believe it" Good old Charlie Brooker Link
Zingari Posted 16 May 2011 Posted 16 May 2011 "Look hard enough, and dementedly enough, and you can find "proof" that Kevin Bacon was responsible for 9/11 - or the 1987 Zeebrugge ferry disaster, come to that. It'd certainly make for a more interesting story, which is precisely why several thousand well-meaning people would go out of their way to believe it" Good old Charlie Brooker Link sorry , but i don't think anyone could actually , ( by this i mean a bunch of conspiracy theorists couldn't do it , whereas , i believe a ruling elite probably could ) it's quite a ridiculous statement and typically smuggish of people that believe that they can't possibly have been fooled he should actually try one day to listen to what many of his educated friends are trying to tell him and get his smug face out from his arse
OzFox Posted 16 May 2011 Posted 16 May 2011 sorry , but i don't think anyone could actually , it's quite a ridiculous statement and typically smuggish of people that believe that they can't possibly have been fooled I think he was taking the P. Although Kevin Bacon is without doubt a very shifty character It's not that we can't possibly have been fooled, just incredibly unlikely.
Zingari Posted 16 May 2011 Posted 16 May 2011 I think he was taking the P. Although Kevin Bacon is without doubt a very shifty character It's not that we can't possibly have been fooled, just incredibly unlikely. yes , indeed , maybe , but not as unlikely as wtc 7 falling symmetrically at freefall , err sorry virtually freefall speed , due to random external damage and sporadic fires " When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains--however improbable--must be the truth.”
OzFox Posted 16 May 2011 Posted 16 May 2011 yes , indeed , maybe , but not as unlikely as wtc 7 falling symmetrically at freefall , err sorry virtually freefall speed , due to random external damage and sporadic fires " When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains--however improbable--must be the truth.” I'm sure that for every Dutch "expert" claiming it was a controlled demolition, there will be another dozen "experts" with a perfectly boring rational explanation. They're just not half as interesting. Don't think I'm gonna go trawling the web looking for them though
Zingari Posted 16 May 2011 Posted 16 May 2011 I'm sure that for every Dutch "expert" claiming it was a controlled demolition, there will be another dozen "experts" with a perfectly boring rational explanation. They're just not half as interesting. Don't think I'm gonna go trawling the web looking for them though Yes i believe you could too , just as you can find firearms experts prepared to rationally try to explain the magic bullet and headshot in the JFK conspiracy case as being from a lone nut assassin on the 6th floor of the TSBD Unfortunately it's still a big fat lie and it's a case of the Emperor's new clothes to believe these " rational explanations " however much they are foisted upon us .
OzFox Posted 16 May 2011 Posted 16 May 2011 Yes i believe you could too , just as you can find firearms experts prepared to rationally try to explain the magic bullet and headshot in the JFK conspiracy case as being from a lone nut assassin on the 6th floor of the TSBD Unfortunately it's still a big fat lie and it's a case of the Emperor's new clothes to believe these " rational explanations " however much they are foisted upon us . No one is doing any foisting. It's just that the balance of evidence usually suggests a rational explanation, including for JFK's magic bullet. It probably was a lone nut assassin on the 6th floor of the TSBD what are you going to bring up next? The moon landings? Roswell? AIDS is a biological weapon?
Zingari Posted 16 May 2011 Posted 16 May 2011 No one is doing any foisting. It's just that the balance of evidence usually suggests a rational explanation, including for JFK's magic bullet. It probably was a lone nut assassin on the 6th floor of the TSBD what are you going to bring up next? The moon landings? Roswell? AIDS is a biological weapon? nice try , i'm suprised you didn't ask if i believed in lizard people No i'll stick to comparisons between film footage of the 911 wtc collapse, and the zapruder film of the magic bullet and headshot to keep me believing that we are being lied to in both these cases . The official "facts " given in both instances do not fit the visual evidence, however they may be presented. If you can see a building falling down due to structural damage and fire , then all well and good , but i can't , it looks every bit a controlled demolition . If you can see a man in a car being shot from the rear , then all well and good , i see a man being shot from the front ( the same as the crowd who ran towards the grassy knoll ) but all the best anyway , i'll leave it for today at least
OzFox Posted 16 May 2011 Posted 16 May 2011 nice try , i'm suprised you didn't ask if i believed in lizard people No i'll stick to comparisons between film footage of the 911 wtc collapse, and the zapruder film of the magic bullet and headshot to keep me believing that we are being lied to in both these cases . The official "facts " given in both instances do not fit the visual evidence, however they may be presented. If you can see a building falling down due to structural damage and fire , then all well and good , but i can't , it looks every bit a controlled demolition . If you can see a man in a car being shot from the rear , then all well and good , i see a man being shot from the front ( the same as the crowd who ran towards the grassy knoll ) but all the best anyway , i'll leave it for today at least I used to find all this stuff interesting and I did a lot of reading, especially about JFK. But the more I read, the more convinced I became that the conspiracy theorists are talking bollocks, mainly because they are so selective with the evidence. I was in Dallas a few years ago and went and stood on the plinth that Abraham Zapruder stood on. The first thing I noticed is that he (and others) had a clear view behind the picket fence a short distance away, so would have had ample opportunity to see and hear any shooters. You never read that in the conspiracy books. As for the "back and to the left" check the relevant bit of this page Enjoy!
MPH Posted 16 May 2011 Posted 16 May 2011 I used to find all this stuff interesting and I did a lot of reading, especially about JFK. But the more I read, the more convinced I became that the conspiracy theorists are talking bollocks, mainly because they are so selective with the evidence. I was in Dallas a few years ago and went and stood on the plinth that Abraham Zapruder stood on. The first thing I noticed is that he (and others) had a clear view behind the picket fence a short distance away, so would have had ample opportunity to see and hear any shooters. You never read that in the conspiracy books. As for the "back and to the left" check the relevant bit of this page Enjoy! Ozfox.... whilst i agree with all you are saying it might be worth stating you are wasting your time. Some people will believe anything that suites them. This isnt intended as an insult, but just fact. 90% of what they look at will be from the conspiracy side of things.. wont spend hardly any time at all researching the evidence from people who say things are actually how they appear to be... and then claim they make informed decisions. with the OBL case and twin towers.. its laughable what some people have believed! For instance, they have ignored OBL's own admission that he masterminded the twin towers attack.... they just want to believe what they want to believe...
Babylon Posted 16 May 2011 Posted 16 May 2011 For instance, they have ignored OBL's own admission that he masterminded the twin towers attack.... they just want to believe what they want to believe... They will claim it was faked, stating the fact he wouldn't dye his beard. It is instead a CIA trick. They will accuse the government of killing thousands in the most elaborate plot every instigated, needing thousands to pull it off, and the same amount to cover up all without leaving a shred of evidence behind.... but then claim the same people would forget to add a bit of grey to some dudes beard. Hmmmmmm.
The Doctor Posted 16 May 2011 Posted 16 May 2011 Yes i believe you could too , just as you can find firearms experts prepared to rationally try to explain the magic bullet and headshot in the JFK conspiracy case as being from a lone nut assassin on the 6th floor of the TSBD Unfortunately it's still a big fat lie and it's a case of the Emperor's new clothes to believe these " rational explanations " however much they are foisted upon us . how do you know? For every conspiracy theorist & their nutjob sources that it's all a big fat lie, there are thousands of experts in specific fields that show the official story as being possible. Admittedly people should be somewhat skeptical of what the government says on occasions given the bull they've attempted to feed us before but why do some people insist that everything is a conspiracy even when the evidence for the government telling the truth is almost completely water-tight.
OzFox Posted 16 May 2011 Posted 16 May 2011 Ozfox.... whilst i agree with all you are saying it might be worth stating you are wasting your time. Some people will believe anything that suites them. Someone described it as wrestling smoke. All good fun though and fascinating what people will believe I was once taken in by Oliver Stone. I might even have entertained the idea that little green men were making crop circles. But I was never daft enough to fall for that 9/11 guff
Webbo Posted 16 May 2011 Posted 16 May 2011 But why would you need to blow up the towers? Surely flying planes into them was enough of a spectacular, you didn't need to bring them down as well.
Zingari Posted 16 May 2011 Posted 16 May 2011 "Terrorism is the best political weapon for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death". - Adolph Hitler "Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Hermann Goering, Nazi leader. "The easiest way to gain control of a population is to carry out acts of terror. [The public] will clamor for such laws if their personal security is threatened". - Josef Stalin Would everyone be more prepared to believe a conspiracy theory that a government had committed an atrocity such as this against their "own people" if we were talking about , Soviet Russia , Communist China or Nazi Germany etc etc Would anyone doubt that they could have organised it for some nefarious motive ? Would anyone doubt that it would be possible to cover it up and convince the masses it was caused by some fabled enemy? Is it just the USA and western democracy that is to be viewed like Ceasar's wife and above suspicion ?
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